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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:48 am 
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Objection! And agreeing with Taleweaver!!

There is even a 3D TV now that we plan on buying next month... so the 3D movie is almost near possible(sides in MOA, there is the 3Dmax cinema whatever I forgot the name X( and movies there were 3D-ed as long as my definition of 3D movies were the same as yours...

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:13 am 
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I have no idea how film cameras work, so just blowing smoke here, but
wouldn't a film camera produce an image that isn't that different from a robot's camera image. Idk, maybe they use similar technologies.


I agree with the crit that
the bat fight isn't really realistic and Autumn's reaction to Elly's actions seem to be a bit blasé. Granted it has been 10 years and I assume/hope she got some therapy. I'd also like to think she has thought of some ways to prevent something like that happening again, even if she hasn't had a committed robot since then. Especially if she wants to bring back both Elly and Jude.
These things didn't really hamper my enjoyment of the story though.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:47 am 
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GeneDNC wrote:
I have no idea how film cameras work

A normal single camera produces a picture very much like the one you can see with one eye closed. For depth perception, you need two eyes, and any camera that records 3D needs to produce two pictures as well. It's as simple as that.

In order for you to see a 3D image as 3D, your two eyes must somehow be able to see the two images apart from one another so that your brain can piece them together again as one 3D image. Current technology does this with polarization filter glasses - the light from each projector is polarized so that your left eye will, through 3D glasses, see only the image intended for your left eye, and vice versa for your right eye.

Cameras in the future won't work differently; the interesting question is whether future picture projection technology will do away with the need for 3D glasses and create some sort of holographic image (think Back to the Future part 2, the "Jaws" ad billboard). If it's technology like that and robot CPUs aren't sophisticated enough to tell them from the real thing, problems like the ones in TCAST may appear. (Though I guess that some kind of "movie mode" could be programmed where the robot is told to treat everything he sees as not real unless it's its owner directly talking to it.)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:25 am 
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3DS doesn't need glasses to produce its 3D effects, although 3D in 3DS is not exactly the same with what you'd expect in current 3D movies. But this is a progress in 3D field I believe.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:12 am 
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3DS technology is no viable option for a cinema-sized screen. The viewing angle is too narrow. However, it could be the base for future developments.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:16 am 
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LVUER wrote:
3DS doesn't need glasses to produce its 3D effects, although 3D in 3DS is not exactly the same with what you'd expect in current 3D movies. But this is a progress in 3D field I believe.


Actually, my cellphone more like they call it smartphone is also 3D and it don't need any glasses(obviously).

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:16 am 
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OtomeWeekend wrote:
LVUER wrote:
3DS doesn't need glasses to produce its 3D effects, although 3D in 3DS is not exactly the same with what you'd expect in current 3D movies. But this is a progress in 3D field I believe.


Actually, my cellphone more like they call it smartphone is also 3D and it don't need any glasses(obviously).

Same technology.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:39 am 
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to be more specific, the entire ordeal that caused elly to be taken away doesn't feel right. why would a child in a heated argument grab a baseball bat? going out of one's way to grab a weapon out of anger is a very unusual thing to do, and is a sign of a very sadistic person. this is especially true with the weapon in question as a baseball bat is more lethal than most hand-held weapons. it makes even less sense for a child to do so, as children tend not to think things through and more rely on their emotions for judgment, meaning even more likelihood of throwing a fist instead. in addition, it doesn't make sense for elly to override her programming for such a philosophically unclear purpose, unless she was programmed to act in a way entirely dependent on the situation, as otherwise she wouldn't have anything in her programming that would suggest the possibility. essentially you have a robot coming up with an idea out of nowhere, and an unquantifiable one at that. lastly, how did autumn get a hold of elly's mini-disk if the robots keep those inside them?

oh, and another thing, if the robots have multiple cameras they should be able to tell that movies aren't real due to the fact that they have no depth.



...So you studied psychology and philosophy? Even to a layman like myself will find that your opinions are wrong.

Sadistic refers to deriving pleasure or sexual gratification through inflicting pain to another. Picking a weapon up from 'Anger' doesn't even comes close.

It's not unusual for a child to not comprehend, to not understand the implications and repercussions of her actions, mostly because her 'moral' senses has not been established well enough. Regarding philosophy, a subjective view on ethics, as well as an objective view towards ethics are two different things. Elly fundamentally assessed the situation as it is through objective eyes; she was compelled through the written laws and codes in her AI to not hit a child, but she did it anyway. Her subjective views towards Autumn was pretty much clear cut that she had to protect her at the cost of whacking down a child. She might even strike down the teacher had she "felt" the need to do so. The same goes for Jude.

Autumn... well. Imo it's always a difficult thing about trauma. Autumn was 100% obessive about Elly. It is my opinion she did not fall in love with Jude even with the makeout session and cryfest. It was more of a guilt thing that's more plausible in this case. She's incredibly level headed, and she wasn't infatuated with him at first sight. She manipulated him at all costs for the sake of reviving Elly, and was eventually sorry over that. That's how I see it. If she goes on a few more dates with Jude, then yeah, maybe it's love.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:50 pm 
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Let me throw in my thoughts on Elly and her potential dangerousness, and Autumn's reaction to that, as papillon brought up, and GeneDNC and SilentWolfie addressed:

Elly is something of a loose canon. But I think she accurately percieved a threat when the opposing party of the heated argument picked up a weapon. Remember that Elly is built to protect children, that's her job. She's assuming her charge is defenseless and needs her to protect her every minute. She saw that Tessa had potential to seriously wound or kill Autumn.

The problem was, she examined only this potential and not that is was more probable that because of Tessa's age she wouldn't be much of a threat. Though there was a definite problem that Elly would've reacted to without Autumn's "error," Elly treated it like it would turn into it's worst-case scenario.

I think current-time Autumn is aware that Elly reacts badly to scenarios like that, but Elly had been Autumn's companion 24/7 for six years without a problem. So the odds were with Autumn that everything would be fine for the short time she could revive Elly for. (She should consider it more seriously in the future when she revives Elly.) And besides, as other people have remarked, Autumn is obsessed with Elly, and Autumn would think reuniting would've been worth risking. (And remember, she tore Jude apart to protect Elly--maybe she would've rather had Elly hurt a few people than not be with her.)

Also I think Autumn is also unusually indifferent to danger for someone in her culture. I tried to explain it's very unusual for a girl her age to be in public without a MyPal or GuardBody or something, as her friends mention early on that it's weird she doesn't have Mary with her in public.
If, in this mildly paranoid culture, Autumn walks in public alone, she probably also feels that she would never be in any danger enough for Elly to react to.

Yeah, that's my two cents that you can totally disregard if you didn't get that from the game. ^-^ The text should speak for itself, so it's your call whether my interpretation is legitimate or not. And now to respond to other responses!


Elethia wrote:
Amazing! ^-^ The characters were written really well, great artwork, a story line that really makes you think...
I would like a sequal! and I don't mind if it comes out in 2020 because what you have produced is work that can't be rushed!

Wow, thank you. XD You have the patience of Buddha. I would be upset if it was released in 2020. :lol:

papillon wrote:
It's always hard to make sequels without diluting the effect of the original, but I would be interested in seeing

Autumn exploring the potential responsibility for destructive love that she can unleash.

We see the actions of the authorities as bad things (taking Elly away, denying Autumn the chance for connection by preventing her from having another robot with personality) but it's also clear that Elly IS dangerous. Had anyone slightly threatened Autumn while they were out and about, there could have been disaster. Autumn didn't seem to realise that or worry about it at all.

Now, by clearly expressing her desire for Elly not to kill people unless absolutely necessary, she could potentially replace the programmatic restrictions with moral restrictions. Which also connects to the differences and similarities between humans and robots. There are many actions we don't take because we understand that other people / society in general will be upset.

Any robot that Autumn connects with, she will need to carefully craft a moral framework for.

Of course, if others discover what a danger she is, they might have their own ideas of how to deal with her...

Wow, thank you so much for your thoughtful comments. o.o You've given me a lot to think about.
And also thanks to PyTom for the spoiler tags. XD

I love the idea of moral-over-programming restricitons, and Autumn trying to take care of that. Can you be my producer for my not-yet-sure-if-it's-gonna-happen game? XD (Just kidding.)


KimiYoriBaka wrote:
well, you seem to have plenty of supporters, so let me be the bad guy and say why I didn't really like your story. please do not be discouraged by it though.

artwise, I didn't like that the colors were clearly different between the sprites and the backgrounds, and I felt the backgrounds tended to be rather empty. I also think the sprites should have been closer to the viewer. on that note, is autumn supposed to be short? cause the positions of the other characters made it seem that way.

about the story, it didn't seem very believable to me.
to be more specific, the entire ordeal that caused elly to be taken away doesn't feel right. why would a child in a heated argument grab a baseball bat? going out of one's way to grab a weapon out of anger is a very unusual thing to do, and is a sign of a very sadistic person. this is especially true with the weapon in question as a baseball bat is more lethal than most hand-held weapons. it makes even less sense for a child to do so, as children tend not to think things through and more rely on their emotions for judgment, meaning even more likelihood of throwing a fist instead. in addition, it doesn't make sense for elly to override her programming for such a philosophically unclear purpose, unless she was programmed to act in a way entirely dependent on the situation, as otherwise she wouldn't have anything in her programming that would suggest the possibility. essentially you have a robot coming up with an idea out of nowhere, and an unquantifiable one at that. lastly, how did autumn get a hold of elly's mini-disk if the robots keep those inside them?

oh, and another thing, if the robots have multiple cameras they should be able to tell that movies aren't real due to the fact that they have no depth.

Psht, you're not a bad guy. XD Thanks for playing and also thanks for caring to respond. :) Criticism is important. XD

As for the art, I see what you're explaining, except for the empty backgrounds. Could you try to explain what you're looking at?

What it sounds like to me is there were too many details you didn't buy that you were unwilling to suspend your disbelief and get into the story. Which is fine, I totally do that too. I can't read certain shoujo manga because I have a hard time suspending my disbelief that people could say such corny things. I'll try to focus on my believability in the future. ^-^

Obviously, this isn't going to help you enjoy the game at this point, but there are a couple of things I'd like to address that people other than me haven't addressed better than I could. :)
I don't think Tessa really went out of her way to grab the bat--you can see it in the first CG she appears in, it's right at her hand.

The mini-disk is not an essential part of the robot, it's just external storage. So Jude never like, took himself out and put Elly in, he was just running her program off of the mini-disk. (Which is why he could independantly override her later on.) It does say that in the game--at the beginning Autumn says that Elly backed her system and memories up on the mini-disk.

I'm not sure what you mean by philosophically unclear purpose. Could you try explaining that a little?


Thank you, everyone for responding to KimiYoriBaka. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:05 pm 
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on the backgrounds, the outdoors one is fine, and I guess the restaurant has the amount of things in it that makes sense, but the bedrooms somehow look as if a few objects were thrown in (with strange sizes in the case of autumn's) just to for the sake of putting stuff in. in addition they're both from a rather close-in perspective so there's not much sense of the overall layout of the room. in combination with the room in Nadiya's house which shows a large room with nothing actually in it, they convey a feeling of emptiness in the world the story takes place in. I think it would be fine having such a feeling in the story, but it doesn't fit with the warm, stylized coloring, or the clearly stylized perspective used in Nadiya's house.

on the story, the reason I thought tessa had gone out of her way to get the bat is because I didn't recognize that those were bats in the picture. the text window covers the body of the bats, and thus they sort of blended into the wall for me. I had to look again just now to see them. the problem I have with elly's actions has less to do with the situation and more to do with how she describes it when asked.
she says quite simply that in that situation she was supposed to disarm the person and talk. for her to do anything else would not only require her to defy her programming, but also to have the idea of doing something else already in her programming. otherwise the very concept wouldn't exist to her. I actually find the idea of "overriding her programming" to be strange, as for a computer, programming would be it's entire consciousness.


@SilentWolfie:
okay, perhaps sadistic wasn't the right word, however it is still unusual for a child to pick up a weapon in anger unless it is already within the child's grasp. they usual also stick to throwing things rather than hitting with them. while I have not studied very much on child psychology, I don't think a child would consider the idea of using a weapon over their own fist because that requires the logical argument that the weapon will deal more damage. I do remember from my psychology (101 of course) that elementary school children are still in the age range that hasn't developed the fore lobe of the brain which is where upper level thought is processed and thus the use of any logical argument becomes a lot harder. this is then compounded by the simple fact that anger tends to make it hard to think.

oh, and my opinion of children also comes from having been around children almost constantly for as long as I've been alive. I have observed children quite a bit.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:13 am 
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@KimiYoriBaka

In my experience, children seem to hit more than throw. I have children and I am constantly telling them not to hit each other, as opposed to not to throw anything at each other. When me and my sister fought as children we never threw things either. It was all hair grabbing, hits, slaps and punches. (not all the time, believe it or not we were actually best friends). But not all children are the same.

As for the "Elly hitting the girl with the bat" thing: I viewed that scene as the girl not even going to hit Autumn with the bat, but that was what Elly perceived after witnessing the argument. Autumn even says she wasn't sure the girl was going to hit her with it. Prior to that Autumn has been making Elly defy her programming by making her turn off her cameras, and who knows what else she may have had Elly do. It also seemed weird for Autumn to have Elly for as long as she did since her friends mentioned that two mypals in one life was rare. They seemed surprised that her mypals didn't break. So Elly's age may have deteriorated something that made it easier for her to override her programming. (I know next to nothing about computers, but this is how I came to understand what happened there)

So that was my two cents about that.

I really enjoyed the story. The only thing that was hard for me to wave off and accept was that Jude was overriding his programming for Autumn in less than 24 hours. I don't think that was adequately explained. I got that there was something with her that is affecting the Androids who are committed to her, but I came away not knowing what that was to understand how she was able to get Jude to override his programming. But I didn't let it ruin the story for me. I even started to cry there at the end, but I'm a sap like that :P


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:25 pm 
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Seriously, BEST.KINETIC NOVEL. EVER! I loved it, it totally made me cry. It was like watching a movie or reading a really good book. The writing was EXCELLENT! And it left me wanting more... I would really love a sequel :] I can just feel the awesomeness now
Yeah... and I posted the link on facebook so the rest of my friends can play through it ^^ Have you thought about porting this game to android or iphone/ipad?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:23 am 
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@glamsam8:

Look at page 5 and you'd see a certain post that would answer your question.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:02 pm 
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I don't usually go for KNs, but decided to try this one after reading all the comments. I was quite impressed! The story turned out to be darker than I expected, but it was a very intriguing concept and surprisingly moving - I don't think I've played another game from the LSF community with as good a story.

I did think Autumn's friends were a bit scary, though. :P


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:38 am 
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I just finished playing this, and to be honest - I'm quite surprised. It was a whole lot better than I expected :) I really enjoyed the story, and the depth you put into the perspective of both robots and humans, coexisting together and how in the end, we're so alike. It was definitely angsty, but in a good way - I was left thinking "damn. wow."

And a sequel? I look forward to it ! Well, here are just some suggestions from me.. or ideas I guess :D Since throughout the game, I was left questioning a few things of how it could've ended.. or continued. For a sequel, I guess two possibilites could be... 1. a continuation, or 2. alternate endings?

I wish the end had turned out differently, and couldn't help but wonder 'what if?' What if she had changed her mind? What if she had succumbed to her desire (or possible 'feelings') for Jude? Since it was pretty obvious that she does feel something for him.. but is it sexual desire? Or is it the beginning of love? If she had changed her mind, what would have happened? You know? :D And since they were in a hotel room... the possibles are quite... ;) ;) ;)

Or perhaps for a continuation, she'd eventually come to a point where she'd have to choose between Elly and Jude. Between friendship and love. Since she did mention 'eternal lovers' in future? Because it wouldn't be possible to have it the 'best of both worlds' =S The one thing I guess could have been improved was the art, or more backgrounds, or CG's? :D

Otherwise, great work on this visual novel, I greatly enjoyed it ! (:

p.s. can you clarify the two ending cg's where one she kissing Jude before he is ruined, and then it changes to him in ruins? I thought she was bashing him with a bat... THEN kissing him? LOL


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