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mokenju1
 Post subject: The Wandering Child
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:15 pm
Posts: 198
Location: Spain
My fourth Ren'Py game and the second sequel to The Silent Maiden (and the last NaNoRenO's game I'm going to release this year 8) ).

This is my favourite game of the three finished games of Jane Whitman (although that doesn't mean a lot, because that's what everyone usually says about the latest game/book/picture they have created).

I want to thank in this thread again Py'tom for creating an engine that even I can use (in my rudimentary way) to share my stories and to Ignosco, who is partially responsible that Jane Whitman has still not returned to the nebula where the characters live when nobody writes about them anymore (Yep, I know that this is starting to sound as a long and boring Oscar's acceptance speech, but I have to thank also all the people from this forum. Sorry :wink: ). Although those games are never going to be the best games ever created or I'm going to retire from work with the "royalties" obtained thanks to them, I'm happy that they exist. Maybe I'm a very easy to please person :D .

Edit: The new links.

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http://downloads.visualnews.net/oel/The ... 0child.zip
http://downloads.visualnews.net/oel/The ... 86.tar.bz2
http://downloads.visualnews.net/oel/The ... ld-mac.zip

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Finished Projects: "Host Love", "The Silent Maiden", "The Worthy Bride" and "The Wandering Child"
Currently working on: "The Smiling Lady", "The intruder","Cassandra's Knight" and "Cinderella's choice"
Unfinished Projects: "Dear Friend, Secret Lover"


Last edited by mokenju1 on Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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monele
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:45 pm 
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You're unstoppable ô_o... And I still haven't had the time to even try the first one ^^;...
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ChXris
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:14 pm 
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I wish i have ur motivation :D

I kinda distract too easy. for example, i could be working on my game now instead of writing senseless posts :lol:

Ill test the whole saga. (another distraction)

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chisa-chan
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:59 am 
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Location: at a village near Bandung, Indonesia
Ara ara, amazing, you released four games already?! Man, you seem to be the fastest person who released games so shortly...

Duh, I want to play your games, but...with the suck internet speed here.... :?

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Hime
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:17 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:46 pm
Posts: 384
Projects: Project Nattsu, Take Rena Home
Uh, I think this is absolutely the hardest out of the three. I can't get the good ending no matter how many times I have tried... It seems like nobody is the criminal... Any tips?

And oh, there seems to be quite many times when the talk is about Stonors when the right name would seem to be Carlton. Or then I have missed something. Which might be. ^^;
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mokenju1
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:59 am 
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Posts: 198
Location: Spain
Hime wrote:
Uh, I think this is absolutely the hardest out of the three. I can't get the good ending no matter how many times I have tried... It seems like nobody is the criminal... Any tips?

And oh, there seems to be quite many times when the talk is about Stonors when the right name would seem to be Carlton. Or then I have missed something. Which might be. ^^;


Thanks for pointing me the problem with the Stonors :wink: . I don't know why but I have a fixation with them :lol: . I'm going to upload a new version with this corrected.

A tip? Let's see... Have you visited the garden of the Carlton's? It's an interesting place, although maybe a little creepy sometimes. But in sunny days they say it's beautiful :wink: .

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Finished Projects: "Host Love", "The Silent Maiden", "The Worthy Bride" and "The Wandering Child"
Currently working on: "The Smiling Lady", "The intruder","Cassandra's Knight" and "Cinderella's choice"
Unfinished Projects: "Dear Friend, Secret Lover"
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Taleweaver
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:51 am
Posts: 2054
Location: Germany
Completed: Metropolitan Blues, The Loyal Kinsman, Daemonophilia, The Dreaming, The Thirteenth Year, Adrift, Bionic Heart 2
Projects: The Pilgrim's Path, Elspeth's Garden, Secret Adventure Game!
Organization: Tall Tales Productions
This is very frustrating - I'm definitely SURE who the murderer is (and even come to the same conclusions as Jane), but I can't seem to find enough evidence.

You get the doll if you follow the Wandering Child without getting killed, and you find the porcelain shard in the garden, but that's about everything Jane has in the end, apparently no matter who else I'm talking to or what else I find out. What more is needed?

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Creator of The Loyal Kinsman

Scriptwriter and director of Daemonophilia
Scriptwriter and director of The Dreaming

Scriptwriter of Zenith Chronicles
Scriptwriter and director of The Thirteenth Year

Writer for Pet Project II: Heavy Petting
Scriptwriter and producer of Adrift

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"Adrift - Like Ever17, but without the Deus Ex Machina" - HigurashiKira
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mokenju1
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:06 am 
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Taleweaver wrote:
This is very frustrating - I'm definitely SURE who the murderer is (and even come to the same conclusions as Jane), but I can't seem to find enough evidence.

You get the doll if you follow the Wandering Child without getting killed, and you find the porcelain shard in the garden, but that's about everything Jane has in the end, apparently no matter who else I'm talking to or what else I find out. What more is needed?


Hmm... Let's see, who do you think did it? (Some of the bad endings are truly convincing :twisted: )

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Finished Projects: "Host Love", "The Silent Maiden", "The Worthy Bride" and "The Wandering Child"
Currently working on: "The Smiling Lady", "The intruder","Cassandra's Knight" and "Cinderella's choice"
Unfinished Projects: "Dear Friend, Secret Lover"
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Taleweaver
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:45 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:51 am
Posts: 2054
Location: Germany
Completed: Metropolitan Blues, The Loyal Kinsman, Daemonophilia, The Dreaming, The Thirteenth Year, Adrift, Bionic Heart 2
Projects: The Pilgrim's Path, Elspeth's Garden, Secret Adventure Game!
Organization: Tall Tales Productions
mokenju1 wrote:
Hmm... Let's see, who do you think did it? (Some of the bad endings are truly convincing :twisted: )

Lady Carlton. It's the only choice that wraps up everything - the obviously secret-message-swapping conversation about blue-striped and red-striped vases, the first murder, the second murder, motives and all.


If that theory is wrong, the case is impossible to solve by reason and deduction. All other theories leave story threads untied.

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Scriptwriter and producer of Metropolitan Blues
Creator of The Loyal Kinsman

Scriptwriter and director of Daemonophilia
Scriptwriter and director of The Dreaming

Scriptwriter of Zenith Chronicles
Scriptwriter and director of The Thirteenth Year

Writer for Pet Project II: Heavy Petting
Scriptwriter and producer of Adrift

More about me in my blog
"Adrift - Like Ever17, but without the Deus Ex Machina" - HigurashiKira
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mokenju1
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:33 am 
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Posts: 198
Location: Spain
It's ok. You got the true ending. But there's no more evidence. After all Lord Carlton and Lady Merryll died from an stroke and that is not something that leaves many proofs behind. That's the reason although Jane knows what happened it's not so sure that police is going to believe her and investigate Lady Carlton afterall... so it's kind of an open ending. Sorry if it was not clear that you won and because of that you had to play more times for nothing :oops: . Maybe I should add something to clarify this :roll: .

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Finished Projects: "Host Love", "The Silent Maiden", "The Worthy Bride" and "The Wandering Child"
Currently working on: "The Smiling Lady", "The intruder","Cassandra's Knight" and "Cinderella's choice"
Unfinished Projects: "Dear Friend, Secret Lover"
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Taleweaver
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:29 pm 
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Completed: Metropolitan Blues, The Loyal Kinsman, Daemonophilia, The Dreaming, The Thirteenth Year, Adrift, Bionic Heart 2
Projects: The Pilgrim's Path, Elspeth's Garden, Secret Adventure Game!
Organization: Tall Tales Productions
Then tell me something...

If this is the "true ending", what in the game's resolution makes it "more true" than the Julia Ingram ending where Jane suspects her of being the Wandering Child and essentially a psychotic killer? Both endings have pretty much the same "feel", that of a Bad Ending, only that there is no evidence at all to support the Julia Ingram theory except for most of the conversations and the porcelain shard becomes a red herring there.

If your whole point of the game was that the case is impossible to solve with 100% certainty, okay, fine with me. But you should at least give your players some indication which of your endings is supposed to be the correct one.

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Scriptwriter and producer of Metropolitan Blues
Creator of The Loyal Kinsman

Scriptwriter and director of Daemonophilia
Scriptwriter and director of The Dreaming

Scriptwriter of Zenith Chronicles
Scriptwriter and director of The Thirteenth Year

Writer for Pet Project II: Heavy Petting
Scriptwriter and producer of Adrift

More about me in my blog
"Adrift - Like Ever17, but without the Deus Ex Machina" - HigurashiKira
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mokenju1
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:46 pm 
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Location: Spain
Taleweaver wrote:
Then tell me something...

If this is the "true ending", what in the game's resolution makes it "more true" than the Julia Ingram ending where Jane suspects her of being the Wandering Child and essentially a psychotic killer? Both endings have pretty much the same "feel", that of a Bad Ending, only that there is no evidence at all to support the Julia Ingram theory except for most of the conversations and the porcelain shard becomes a red herring there.

If your whole point of the game was that the case is impossible to solve with 100% certainty, okay, fine with me. But you should at least give your players some indication which of your endings is supposed to be the correct one.


The point is not that the case is impossible to solve, the case is solved. But to know something and to prove something are very different things. And I consider that the true ending, because like you have seen is the only one which ties together all the lose ends. I like Julia Ingram's ending but it doesn't explain anything, it's only a plausible theory. Lady Carlton's ending is the only one that offers a complete explanation and it's also the only one where its said that Jane and Aunt Petunia are going to talk with the police about what they have discovered (and it's way longer than the rest :roll: ).

The thing is that this is a visual novel, and that implies that all of them are true endings in a way. If that was a novel or a film there wouldn't be any confusion, Lady Carlton is the murderer, Jane discovers it and that's the end of it. But in this game, Jane can believe that Lady Merryll or Julia Ingram are murderers and as she has motives to belive so, that is for her the solution to the mistery. But that doesn't change the fact that The Wandering Child was written thinking since the start that Lady Carlton is the murderer, so all points to that in a way. And although Jane seems convinced with the Julia Ingram's ending e.g., the player "should" know that if that theory was true the words of Jane "that explains everything, the death, the dolls..." wouldn't make any sense.

But I'm not trying to convince you of that (although it certainly looks like that :lol: ). I don't want that anyone spents some of his/her valuable time replaying a game only because it's not clear that he/she has won. If to prevent that I have to add a final screen with the words "Congratulations you solved the mistery", or something similar I don't have any problem with doing it :wink: .

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Finished Projects: "Host Love", "The Silent Maiden", "The Worthy Bride" and "The Wandering Child"
Currently working on: "The Smiling Lady", "The intruder","Cassandra's Knight" and "Cinderella's choice"
Unfinished Projects: "Dear Friend, Secret Lover"


Last edited by mokenju1 on Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mokenju1
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:15 pm
Posts: 198
Location: Spain
Sorry, doublepost :roll: .

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Finished Projects: "Host Love", "The Silent Maiden", "The Worthy Bride" and "The Wandering Child"
Currently working on: "The Smiling Lady", "The intruder","Cassandra's Knight" and "Cinderella's choice"
Unfinished Projects: "Dear Friend, Secret Lover"
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Taleweaver
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:51 am
Posts: 2054
Location: Germany
Completed: Metropolitan Blues, The Loyal Kinsman, Daemonophilia, The Dreaming, The Thirteenth Year, Adrift, Bionic Heart 2
Projects: The Pilgrim's Path, Elspeth's Garden, Secret Adventure Game!
Organization: Tall Tales Productions
You know what would help your point? Add an epilogue. Something that comes after the end credits; maybe just a small scene between Petunia and Jane at the late Lord Carlton's grave to point out that Jane was right but just couldn't prove it. Maybe some poetic justice in the end, or, if you don't consider that an appropriate way to end the story, at least some closing words. An additional, special scene to reward the player for getting the true ending.

Maybe it's just me. But the way it is, "The Wandering Child" just seems incomplete to me.

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Scriptwriter and producer of Metropolitan Blues
Creator of The Loyal Kinsman

Scriptwriter and director of Daemonophilia
Scriptwriter and director of The Dreaming

Scriptwriter of Zenith Chronicles
Scriptwriter and director of The Thirteenth Year

Writer for Pet Project II: Heavy Petting
Scriptwriter and producer of Adrift

More about me in my blog
"Adrift - Like Ever17, but without the Deus Ex Machina" - HigurashiKira
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mokenju1
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:01 pm 
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Location: Spain
Taleweaver wrote:
You know what would help your point? Add an epilogue. Something that comes after the end credits; maybe just a small scene between Petunia and Jane at the late Lord Carlton's grave to point out that Jane was right but just couldn't prove it. Maybe some poetic justice in the end, or, if you don't consider that an appropriate way to end the story, at least some closing words. An additional, special scene to reward the player for getting the true ending.

Maybe it's just me. But the way it is, "The Wandering Child" just seems incomplete to me.


Sorry, but the reward is having beaten the game, that's all. I haven't said that the murderer is not going to end his/her days in a dark jail or hanged. It's not likely, but although Jane had all the evidences you can imagine, it would still be difficult for the police to believe her and Aunt Petunia, very difficult in their circumstances...

Maybe that's not enough for everyone, but that's the way it is for me. I could have added that kind of last scene, it's true. Maybe if I had more inspiration the day I wrote the ending, I would have added it. But I didn't. Jane knows is right, Aunt Petunia knows Jane is right and now that I have added a new line the player surely knows he/she has beaten the game. And that should be enough, I think. If the game is incomplete because it has not a "meaningful" special ending, I'll have to accept that that game is incomplete and it's going to remain incomplete for... let's say for a long time. Maybe if The Wandering Child was an standalone game it would be a different thing (The Silent Maiden had that kind of rewarding end, but it was only because it was thought to be really the end of the story).

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Finished Projects: "Host Love", "The Silent Maiden", "The Worthy Bride" and "The Wandering Child"
Currently working on: "The Smiling Lady", "The intruder","Cassandra's Knight" and "Cinderella's choice"
Unfinished Projects: "Dear Friend, Secret Lover"
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