Ethics of the diet

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Ethics of the diet

#1 Post by Wright1000 »

101 reasons to go vegetarian

Every year in the UK we feed our livestock enough food to feed 250,000,000 people while in the world 30,000,000 people die of starvation
20 vegetarians can live off the land required by one meat eater
Every 3 seconds a child dies of starvation somewhere in the world
If Americans reduced their meat consumption by 10% it would free 12,000,000 tons of grain - enough to feed 60,000,000 people (the population of Great Britain)
If all Americans became vegetarian, it would free enough grain to feed 600,000,000 people (the population of India)
Intensification in animal farming has displaced 1,000,000's of people from their traditional lands - eg. indigenous people in south & central america, native americans in north america & crofters in Great Britain - this is continuing today
People displaced from their lands into cities succumb to dietary deficiency, diseases, parasites & opportunistic diseases
In third world countries 1 in 10 babies die before their first birthday
The UK imports £46,000,000 worth of grain from third world countries to feed our livestock
Due to overgrazing 850,000,000 people live on land threatened by desertification & over 230,000,000 already live on land so severely desertified that they are unable to sustain their existence & face imminent starvation
1,000,000,000 people in the west gorging on meat & dairy leave 1,000,000,000 to waste away & 3,500,000,000 teeter on the brink

LAND
If they continue to clear American forests to raise cattle at the present rate, in 50 years there will be none left
1 acre yields 165 lbs of beef or 20,000 lbs of potatoes
8/10 of cultivated land in the UK is used to grow food for animals (14,732,000 hectares)
It takes 16lbs of high protein soya to produce 1 lb of beef
Since 1945 in the UK we have lost 95% of flower meadows, 50% of ancient woodlands, 40% of heathlands, 50% of wet lands & 224,000 km of hedgerows all due to animal farming
Pressure on land due to meat farming leads to soil erosion 6billion tons/year in the USA
If everyone went vegetarian upto 90% of land used for animal farming could be taken out of production & used to replant woodlands, leisure activities etc.
25% of Central america's forests have been destroyed for cattle grazing since 1960
Between 1966-1983 38% of the Amazon rain forest was destroyed for cattle grazing
90% of cattle ranches established on cleared forest land go bankrupt in less than 8 years as the land becomes barren due to nutrient loss & overgrazing
Overgrazing by cattle is destroying the land & increasing desertification, nearly 430 million acres in the USA alone has suffered a 25-50% reduction in yield since first grazed
An inch of topsoil takes 200-1000 years to develop - yet in the USA they have lost around 1/3 of their prime topsoil in 200 years (around 7 inches) due to animal farming
Land will be lost due to rises in sea level due to global warming due to animal farming

AIR
The destruction of the rainforest by cattle farmers is destroying the lungs of the planet & reducing the worlds capacity to replenish our oxygen supply
The 1,300,000,000 cattle in the world emit 60,000,000 tons of methane per year (methane is a greenhouse gas & leads to global warming)
Burning of forests, grasslands & agricultural waste associated with animal farming releases 50-100,000,000 tons of methane per year
Combining these figures, 25% of methane emissions are due to animal farming (not including the billions of sheep, pigs & poultry so the real figure is much higher)
Fertilizer used to grow crops to feed to animals releases nitrous oxide - thought to account for 6% of the greenhouse effect
Fertilizer, weedkiller & pesticides sprayed on crops enter the atmosphere creating a noxious carcinogenic cocktail
CFCs are released into the air from refrigeration units used to store decomposing flesh (meat), milk & butter - CFCs are destroy the ozone layer
Ammonia from animal urine also pollutes the atmosphere
CO2 is released by burning oil & petrol in lorries, ships, abattoirs, dairies, factories etc. associated with meat & dairy production
Emissions from large chemical plants which produce fertilizer, weedkiller & other agricultural chemicals are also poisoning our air

WATER
25 gallons of water to produce 1lb of wheat & 2500 gallons to produce 1lb of meat
UK farm animals produce 200,000,000 tonnes of slurry (liquid excrement) every year, the majority of which ends up in our rivers
Bloody waste water from abattoirs ends up in our rivers
In the USA every second humans produce 12,000 lbs of effluent while farmed animals produce 250,000 lbs
Nitrates & pesticides used on crops grown to feed livestock end up in our rivers
Meat & dairy farming uses 70 litres of water per day per animal in the UK or 159,250,000,000 litres per year in total
The water used to produce 10 lbs of steak is equivalent to the average consumption of water for an entire household for an entire year
Depletion of groundwater reserves to grow crops for animals & to supply abattoirs will lead to greater water shortages
Aquafers (stores of underground water) in the San Joaquin valley in the USA are being drained at the rate of 500,000,000,000 gallons/year to produce meat
18% of all agricultural land in the world is irrigated & as global warming increases (partly due to animal farming) it will cost $200,000,000 to keep these systems going
The water used to produce a 1000 lb beef steer is enough to float a Destroyer battleship
The liquid waste from the various parts of the meat & dairy industry flow into the rivers & from there into the seas polluting them & encouraging huge algal blooms to grow

EFFICIENCY
To produce 1calorie of energy from meat takes 60 calories of petrol, whereas growing grains & legumes to directly feed people produces 20 calories for each calorie of fuel used ( thats 1200 times more efficient)
Meat & dairy farming uses billions of gallons of oil to run tractors, fuel ships & lorries (to move animal feed & animals), pump billions of gallons of water to irrigate fields & run slaughterhouses, power refrigeration units to prevent the corpses from decomposing & to power sewage plants to clean up some of the pollution produced
Cattle convert only 6% of their energy intake (mainly grains & soya) into flesh, the remaining 94% is wasted as heat, movement (which is why they keep many animals in very close confinement), hair, bones, faeces etc
1lb of beef takes 1 gallon of petrol to produce
A family of four eating beef for a year uses enough petrol to run a car for 6 months (obviously depending on how far you drive!)
If the full ecological cost of meat was passed onto the consumer - the price would be quadrupled (at least)
The EC spends œ100,000,000's to subsidise animal production resulting in lakes of unwanted milk & mountains of unwanted meat & butter. This money could be better spent encouraging organic fruit, vegetable & grain production
In the USA in 1979 145,000,000 tons of crops were fed to cattle resulting in only 21million tons of animal bodies - the cost of the wasted crops was $20,000,000,000
Between 1950 & 1985 grain production in Europe & the USA increased massively but 2/3 was fed to animals
70% of all grain is fed to animals
Eating vast quantities of animal flesh, eggs, milk & butter is a luxury that most of the planet can not afford

ANIMALS
Fishing with drift (and other modern) nets weakens & destroys ecosystems by indiscriminately killing billions of sea creatures & disrupting the sea bed
Fishermen's nets kill 10 times as many other animals as the fish they are hoping to catch
Fish caught in nets die an agonising slow death of suffocation
Each year 15,000,000,000 land animals are slaughtered for food & an unknown but much larger number of sea creatures (including 1000's of dolphins caught accidentally)
Chickens are crammed into battery cages with upto 3 other birds, they are unable to even spread their wings & many can not even stand up
Unwanted male chicks (because they can't lay eggs) are gassed or pulped while their sisters go to the battery sheds
Chicks are debeaked without anaesthetic to prevent them injuring each other in the unnaturally confined conditions they are kept in - this is equivalent to having your fingernails pulled out without anaesthetic
Modern farming methods using growth hormones & artificial lighting mean that many chickens out grow their bones, resulting in fractured & broken legs
Sows are kept tethered in stalls 1.3 x 1 metre on concrete or slatted floors - they can not even turn around
Poultry raised for meat are kept in windowless broiler sheds, with around 20-30,000 in each shed, they live in an area of 10-20 cm square - fighting due to overcrowding is common & like battery hens they commonly suffer from supperating bed sores
Broilersheds are artificially lit 23 hours a day to produce rapid growth
Animals travel between farms & to slaughter in overcrowded transporters with no food or water - resulting in stress, injuries & deaths - legal requirements are widely ignored
95% of poultry suffer injuries before being killed & 30% suffer broken bones
Problems with stunning practices mean that many animals have their throats slit while still conscious (around 6% of cattle or 200,000 per year) & are then dipped in tanks of scalding water (to loosen feathers, bristles etc.) again while fully conscious
4000 animals die spurting their blood out every minute in a British slaughterhouse
Calf leather comes from animals killed at just 2 weeks old
Cows were fed on the ground up remains of other cows & sheep - the result is thought to be BSE (mad cow disease) in the USA cattle are fed partly on recycled plastic pellets
Cows only give milk for 10 months after they have a calf - so they are routinely artificially inseminated (ie. mechanically raped) to keep them pregnant & milking - their calves are taken away (usually at 12 hours old) for meat or export to veal crates
Cows would naturally live upto 20 years but are slaughtered after 5-7 years when their milk production begins to fall
In the UK animals are killed by first being stunned with electricity or a captive bolt gun (ie. a bolt is fired into their heads) before having their throats slit & being plunged into boiling water - all this happens on a production line with the animals being hung upside down from a moving conveyor belt - this is factory farming
"Animals are those unfortunate slaves & victims of the most brutal part of mankind" - John Stewart Mill (philosopher)
Veal calves are confined in stalls in the dark, unable to move & are fed on pigs blood , chocolate & dried milk (we are drinking the rich fresh milk of their mothers)
Cows naturally produce 5 litres of milk per day for their calves - under the intensified systems of modern farming they produce 25-40 litres per day - resulting in swollen & inflamed udders - at this rate they are soon worn out
Large areas of land are under monoculture to grow crops to feed to animals - these areas are wildlife deserts supporting fewer & fewer species.

HEALTH
Vegetarians have a 20% lower rate of mortality from all causes (ie. they live longer & don't get sick as often)
Meat is full of traces of antibiotics, hormones, toxins produced by stress & pesticide residues that become concentrated from all the crops they have eaten
Fish contain heavy metals & other pollutants -many of which originated on farms
The world health organisation recommends a diet low in saturated fat, sugar, salt & with plenty of fibre - exactly what you get on a vegan/vegetarian diet
Farmed animals contain upto 50% saturated fat in their bodies
Vegetarians have 24% reduced risk of getting heart disease & Vegans a 57% reduction (heart disease is the biggest killer in the UK accounting for 50% of deaths)
Obesity is rare in vegetarians, obesity is related to many diseases
Vegans & vegetarians have lower blood pressure & cholesterol levels - high levels are associated with heart disease, strokes & kidney failure
Vegetarians have a 50% reduced risk of dying of diabetes
Vegetarians have a 40% reduced level of cancer than the general population thought to be because they have a higher intake of vitamins A,C & E
Vegetarians have a reduced risk of developing gall & kidney stones
80% of food poisoning is due to infected meat (faeces, bacteria etc.) after all meat is decomposing flesh - most of the rest is due to salmonella in eggs
Osteoporosis due to calcium loss from bones is mainly due to the sulphur content in meat & casein protein in milk that cause calcium to be lost in the urine - the countries with the highest meat & dairy consumption are those with the highest levels of brittle bones
50% of people do not have the enzyme to digest milk properly & milk allergy is related to asthma & eczema
Meat eaters have double the rate of Alzheimers disease as Vegans & Vegetarians - some people also think that Parkinsons disease is also linked to meat eating
Egg yolk is a dense concentration of saturated fat & the white is high in albumin protein associated with leaching calcium into your urine. Butter is 80% saturated fat, cream is 40% saturated fat & cheese is 25-40% saturated fat
Meat eaters are two and a half times more likely to get bowel cancer than Vegetarians
The cling film used to wrap meat in supermarkets & butchers contains chemicals linked to falling sperm counts in men
Chinese people (living mainly on a vegetarian diet) consume 20% more calories than Americans but Americans are 20% fatter
Of 2,100,000 deaths in the USA in 1987, 1,500,000 were related to diet (ie. meat & dairy)


If you've read this far, I hope that you are beginning to see that the Meat & Dairy industry is a major contributor to misery on this planet. It is destroying the health of people in rich countries, starving those in poor countries, it is torturing & killing billions of animals every year and in the meantime it is one of the major factors in the destruction of the environment - so what does the meat & dairy industry have to say in it's defence?

Well their only real point is usually "Meat is tasty" - fair enough a lot of people enjoy the taste of meat - but there are plenty of delicious alternatives (just consider the huge range of vegetarian dishes in Indian cooking - one of the oldest & most sophisticated cuisines in the world) and if you really crave meat & dairy, nowadays there are plenty of healthy non animal alternatives - just look in the supermarket & health food shop. So I hope you will agree it's pretty pathetic to consider all the evidence & then say "well I know you're right about the environment & health & the animals - but I just love my meat"
He who doesn't care about the environment doesn't care about his grandchildren.

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Re: Ethics of the diet

#2 Post by yummy »

Propaganda!

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Re: Ethics of the diet

#3 Post by Wright1000 »

yummy wrote:Propaganda!
No, it's not.
I have been an animal rights activist for a long time.
I know that vegetarianism is one of the best ways to save the world.
But, when people say such meaningless anti-vegetarian things, it really pisses me off!
MaiMai wrote:
Wright1000 wrote:If you are a Christian, did you forget this-- Though shall not kill.
Each and every religion speaks against animal slaughter.
"Each and every religion" is sort of pushing it especially when you consider that early in early Judaism animal sacrifices were common. And don't even get me started on the Old Testament where the mentions of the first Passover involved butchering a lamb for the Passover Feast. (I am Christian by the way)

Please, please, PLEASE know what you're talking about before you even try to refer to other sources and people to try and support your side Wright100. Because honestly, you're making a very terrible case for your argument by trying to refer to other sources without knowing the full extent of what you're using.
I am not looking for vegetarianism supporter in Lemmasoft.
I was only looking for supporters to support the donkey.
I know most of you will say anything to defend your habit of meat eating.
I already have thousands of other supporters. If you don't want to help the animal, don't.
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Re: Ethics of the diet

#4 Post by Taleweaver »

yummy wrote:Propaganda!
But valid propaganda. If you're enthusiastic about a subject, why not find followers? As long as you're not confrontational towards the people who choose not to follow you...
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Re: Ethics of the diet

#5 Post by Wright1000 »

I told you I am not looking for followers.
Since you don't have any reply for that, you are calling it propaganda.
But that's just how most selfish people are.
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Re: Ethics of the diet

#6 Post by Auro-Cyanide »

I think people should be able to choose what they do and do not eat. I believe humans are naturally omnivores and generally it is the healthiest way for us to live. So I eat meat. I grew up in the bush, my uncle and aunt are famers. I'm fully aware of where meat comes from and how. Humans have been eating meat since the beginning of our existence and I personally do not see a reason to stop now.

Do I think there are things that can be fixed in regards to animals and their use as meat? Yes. And I have seen positive changes that I hope will become more prevalent through the industry. I appreciate a calm, logical course of action in regards to these issues and I dislike a lot of the self-hate that seems to come with activism. I want to see change, to see more people appreciate where their food comes from, but that doesn't mean I think we should stop doing what we are naturally programmed to do.

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Re: Ethics of the diet

#7 Post by Wright1000 »

We aren't naturally programmed to eat meat.
In India, all the incarnations of Lord Almighty were vegetarians, including Lord Buddha.
Lord Buddha said that killing an innocent human is the same as killing an innocent animal.

Earlier, people used to do slavery, that doesn't mean we have to.
Similarly, now people eat meat, but in the future, people will realize their mistake and turn vegetarian.
If you want to eat meat that badly, I will never stop you.
But don't say thing like this--- I am eating meat because I am programmed to eat it.
So, please stop things like that.
He who doesn't care about the environment doesn't care about his grandchildren.

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Re: Ethics of the diet

#8 Post by LVUER »

What's with this wall of text o_O

An advice, don't do that if you want people want to really read your text. Only text with no image, anyone without any interest on what you're writing will never read them all. Those who have little interest will perhaps just skim it anyway.

So you'd better make it short and straight to the point. I remember that I often get assignment when still in college where I need to gather lots of material and resource, but have to compile my report less than 5 pages (who want to read 50-100 pages of reports anyway?).
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Re: Ethics of the diet

#9 Post by Auro-Cyanide »

Wright1000 wrote:We aren't naturally programmed to eat meat.
In India, all the incarnations of Lord Almighty were vegetarians, including Lord Buddha.
Lord Buddha said that killing an innocent human is the same as killing an innocent animal.

Earlier, people used to do slavery, that doesn't mean we have to.
Similarly, now people eat meat, but in the future, people will realize their mistake and turn vegetarian.
If you want to eat meat that badly, I will never stop you.
But don't say thing like this--- I am eating meat because I am programmed to eat it.
So, please stop things like that.
That is a religious belief, not one based on fact. Our bodies tell a different story. The way our eyes face forward indicate we are a predator, we have canine teeth that are made for tearing meat as opposed to the flat, grinding molars. Our bodies and brains where created from a diet high in iron. All ancient societies ate meat. These indicate that humans are supposed to eat meat, though as higher functioning beings we are capable of choosing against our instincts, and that is fine if that is what you choose. But I don't think that is a reason to demonise everyone else.

There is also the ethical problem of what does and does not constitute an animal. Every single day you would kill thousands of animals simply by living. What of the ants you step on as you walk, or the insects you breathe in at night. What of the layers and layers of microscopic animals that surround us. What are they? They are alive and they function. I believe you either respect all life, or none of it. Being biased because of function seems rather one sided. I prefer to live a life that is honest about who and what I am.

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Re: Ethics of the diet

#10 Post by Wright1000 »

Auro-Cyanide wrote:
Wright1000 wrote:We aren't naturally programmed to eat meat.
In India, all the incarnations of Lord Almighty were vegetarians, including Lord Buddha.
Lord Buddha said that killing an innocent human is the same as killing an innocent animal.

Earlier, people used to do slavery, that doesn't mean we have to.
Similarly, now people eat meat, but in the future, people will realize their mistake and turn vegetarian.
If you want to eat meat that badly, I will never stop you.
But don't say thing like this--- I am eating meat because I am programmed to eat it.
So, please stop things like that.
That is a religious belief, not one based on fact. Our bodies tell a different story. The way our eyes face forward indicate we are a predator, we have canine teeth that are made for tearing meat as opposed to the flat, grinding molars. Our bodies and brains where created from a diet high in iron. All ancient societies ate meat. These indicate that humans are supposed to eat meat, though as higher functioning beings we are capable of choosing against our instincts, and that is fine if that is what you choose. But I don't think that is a reason to demonise everyone else.

There is also the ethical problem of what does and does not constitute an animal. Every single day you would kill thousands of animals simply by living. What of the ants you step on as you walk, or the insects you breathe in at night. What of the layers and layers of microscopic animals that surround us. What are they? They are alive and they function. I believe you either respect all life, or none of it. Being biased because of function seems rather one sided. I prefer to live a life that is honest about who and what I am.
You should know the difference between accident and murder.
If you are driving a car and you hit someone by mistake, it is an accident.
If you hit him by purpose, it is a murder.
Similarly, If I step on ants by mistake, God will forgive me.
But if I step on it willingly, it will be a sin.

Meat is not only the cause of so many heart problems but also the cause of world hunger. But, still, if you want to eat meat, do. But all I am saying is that you should not act as if you are doing a good thing by eating meat.

I know a lot of people who eat meat but still admit, "I support vegetarianism but still I am unable to leave eating meat."
I don't have any problem with such people.
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Re: Ethics of the diet

#11 Post by Auro-Cyanide »

But dead is dead. I would prefer if the death had a purpose. Accidents are inevitable, but a waste of life to you. The fellow ants and such usually make use of the body though.

Your view point is rather a specific one. There are not many religions that flat out condemn all meat. As such, there are a lot of different ways of viewing it. To me, saying eating meat is evil, is akin to saying all nature is flawed and the circle of life can be damned. Too many animals eat meat for me ever to consider it to be anything but a part of life.

There are also a great deal of negative ramifications to what your propose. All the people who would lose their lively hoods for instance. And what would we do with the livestock? Kill them all and waste the surplus of meat or let them run wild and destroy the environment. The food you talk of that we supposedly waste giving to animals is mostly grains and grasses, something we can not live off well, and sometimes can not even digest. This is a complicated issue that needs to be gone about delicately. You can't take out a part of the world like that without everything else collapsing. There isn't an easy or righteous answer to it.

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Re: Ethics of the diet

#12 Post by Camille »

Man, you know plants are living, too. >_> Just because they can't make noise when we kill them doesn't make it any better. Plants live, communicate, and reproduce just like animals, and yet vegetarians have no problems with killing them. I think life is life. People who say "killing a dog is worse than killing a cow because dogs are PETS!" are ridiculous. People who say that "killing a cow is worse than killing a tree because cows are ANIMALS!" are also ridiculous.

Everything in this world exists in a circle of life. We kill the cow to eat it and use the things we can't eat in the production of other products. Then we eventually die and when we're buried, the nutrients in our body return to the soil and help nourish plants that feed more cows and so on and so forth. It's true that the way many slaughterhouses are run is really cruel to the animals and that should be changed. But there's no way that anyone is going to force people to eat only plants. Nor should they. A lot of your so-called facts about vegetarians being healthier comes from very biased sources. Humans are meant to be OMNIVORES, just look at our teeth, digestive system, and the way we evolved. We can't even digest a lot of the stuff that's in plants! There are actually many cultures in the world that only eat meat and they're some of the healthiest. :P There's no such thing as essential foods, only essential nutrients that can be had from many different foods.

And that's all I'm saying on the subject since it seems you're absolutely uninterested in other people's opinions and just want people to all switch to vegetarianism.

Also:
Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position so as to benefit oneself.

As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda, in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda is often biased, with facts selectively presented (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political, or other type of agenda.
Your post sounds like propaganda to me.

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Re: Ethics of the diet

#13 Post by Crocosquirrel »

At the risk of sounding like a troll, I fail to see where this list of contradictory and generally inaccurate factoids has anything to do with ethics at all. Certainly, you have failed to derive an argument for your position in any way, shape, or form. Most of this data is pushed directly by PETA, and what isn't is derived like as not from a variety of other similar venues. My recommendation: Have a look into animal husbandry, get a few of the dissenting views, and a study of Human biology, especially as it concerns digestion and dentition. Follow that up with some information on economics and economic theory.

Additional labor costs alone for the same nutritional values from agriculture vs animal husbandry are staggering. It requires more people to raise wheat or corn than it does turkeys, cows, or chickens. Also, not all the crop grown in a particular field is fit for human consumption. That grain and etc is all fed to animals, where it comes into use for us.

Me, I rather like cake. Unfortunately, it requires animal products to make one.

If your list of 'facts' had it's way, I couldn't have cake, and I would then be a very sad panda.

But to connect directly to one of your number up there, how many of those people died as a result of disease or old age? Certainly more than a few. Accidents? Likely more than that. Violence? Let's tack on a few million more. The number of people dying directly of starvation isn't very high compared to *any* of those numbers. Even if there were, all the relief that is sent out from places all over the world wind up in the hands of a few, rather than the people that really need it. Fix that.

What do you propose to do with the animals that can no longer survive without human intervention? Let them die? Or slaughter them? What to do with the carcasses afterwards? Your factslist also suggests the plight of the native americans. Not one of those cultures were purely vegetarian.

Not one.

Nor has there been any other culture that has been strictly vegetarian. It is a modern invention fostered by the likes of Dr. Kellogg. Buddhist teachings do state that the Buddha was a vegetarian. But then again, in that time, meat was something of a luxury that you got if you could hunt it down. Buddha was also a severe ascetic, and eschewed food for the most part with the exception of brown rice and tea when he had to. Even that he stayed away from for the most part.

Last, but not least, for the whole 'death' argument. Plant cell walls break down at the time the plants die, same as animal cells. What nobody thinks about is that most of what you salad consists of is still alive The ground hamburger in my freezer is most definitely dead. The lettuce in the bag from the grocery store is still in operation, biologically speaking. When it does finally die, it'll be all wilted and essentially useless. The shredded carrot is the root from another plant, which if replanted can regrow the same plant. Plant a potato, and you get more potatoes.

In short, think about what you say before saying it. Oh, and if you weren't looking for converts, Wright, why on earth even bother posting? Be honest with yourself, at least. If your post was shorter, I might have considered a claim by claim rebuttal.

Might still, but I'd have to split it over several posts.
I'm going to get off my soap-box now, and let you get back to your day.

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Re: Ethics of the diet

#14 Post by Crocosquirrel »

Camille wrote: Your post sounds like propaganda to me.
You'd be right.

Edit: Ah ha! My Google-fu has hit paydirt.

http://www.flex.com/~jai/articles/101.html

There's his source, in it's entirety... Sadly, word for word, and uncredited.
I'm going to get off my soap-box now, and let you get back to your day.

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Re: Ethics of the diet

#15 Post by Efreet »

Wright1000 wrote:
You should know the difference between accident and murder.
If you are driving a car and you hit someone by mistake, it is an accident.
If you hit him by purpose, it is a murder.
Similarly, If I step on ants by mistake, God will forgive me.
But if I step on it willingly, it will be a sin.

Meat is not only the cause of so many heart problems but also the cause of world hunger. But, still, if you want to eat meat, do. But all I am saying is that you should not act as if you are doing a good thing by eating meat.

I know a lot of people who eat meat but still admit, "I support vegetarianism but still I am unable to leave eating meat."
I don't have any problem with such people.
By saying how you hit [kill] someone by mistake and claiming it was an accident does in no way lessen the act, let alone comparing that act to stepping on ants and believing that God will forgive you.

The actual definition given to 'accidental death' is involuntary manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought. It is distinguished from voluntary manslaughter by the absence of intention. [taken from Wikipedia]

It goes on to list an example:

"a person who runs a red light in their vehicle and hits someone crossing the street could be found to intend or be reckless as to assault or criminal damage. There is no intent to kill, and a resulting death would not be considered murder, but would be considered involuntary manslaughter. The accused's responsibility for causing death is constructed from the fault in committing what might have been a minor criminal act."

In your example, you could have looked where you were stepping and avoid killing ants. And if you had no clue that the ants were there too, well, wouldn't that be a sin for not knowing? Now I'm not religious, but having read a few discussion on this - if you commit a sin without knowing you did, God will take this into account.
Last edited by Efreet on Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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