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Yup. The thing that makes Kickstarter and other things a bit risky is that you get the money once the drive ends, not once the project itself is completed. There's a legitimate reason for that though. When you're looking for funding, it's normally because you can't afford to work on it unless you get capital in advance.

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Not really checking the forums any more due to time constraints, so if you want to contact me, PM. I'll get a notification and log in.
Also, I've been hit and run posting, which means I don't see many replies. If you want to respond to something I've said, also feel free to PM me.

As EroBotan said, for Kickstarter at least you only have to reach your funding goal before people are charged - you don't have to deliver on the final product at all.

You are right; you get the money right away on Kickstarter. I must have been thinking about one of the others, since there are enough of them...

Failing to hit your deadlines is a good way of getting black-balled though; if you say 'releasing 25th of July' and miss it by a week, you're flaky. Miss it by a month and you're unprofessional.

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Recent work - iSchool Dreams: First Semester / iSchool Dreams: My Valentine (iPhone / iPad, dating sims)

You are much more likely to be able to write a half decent design document than get a well-known person on your team. Those well known people are well-known because they are doing their own projects. The only reason they would have to work with you is if you to had proven yourself to be able to develop, in which case your direct need of them as a face would be a moot point.

The purpose of a design document is to prove that you have thought things through and know what you are doing. This is in the absence of other proof. If you have finished polished games already, that is all the proof you need and far exceeds the value of a design document (see DoubleFine). However, if you haven't finished something before, or something as ambitious, a design document will let people know you have plans. Simple things like a timeline, mechanics, approximate length should be easy to answer if you have any idea of what you are doing, especially if you are willing to take money off of people.

It's all about having some integrity and respect for the people you trust you with their money.

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The other 1/2 of Cyanide Tea l My Deviantart Account I My Tumber Account I Break Chance Memento I Ristorante Amore

I see where you're coming from, but still disagree with posting a complete GDD online. These things run to 50 pages or more sometimes and are technical documents. They're boring to read and too in-depth for most people on Kickstarter. A pitch, a full 10-15 page pitch, tells you everything you need to know to decide whether it's the kind of game you'd like to fund or not, but doesn't overwhelm you with minutiae about control systems and how long the splash screens need to be shown for.

As to the 'famous people' thing; I was showing them as examples of the best pitching. Nobody working on a VN is likely to get a big name on-board, but what they can do is see how much information, and what kind of information, people like to see. It's a set of fairly good examples of pitches which work. These people have been pitching professionally-made games for decades, so they know how it's done.

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Recent work - iSchool Dreams: First Semester / iSchool Dreams: My Valentine (iPhone / iPad, dating sims)

I was referring more to the purpose of the documents rather than the technicalities of them. I'm not even sure what you would write about for 50 pages in regards to the design of a VN, plus no-one outside of the team needs to know that much detail. I was more talking about a couple pages that outline what you plan to do and when, an abstract of a design document if you will. Pitches are very important as well and should lead everything. Pitches will catch people, but a design document of some kind will also lure some more skeptical people.

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The other 1/2 of Cyanide Tea l My Deviantart Account I My Tumber Account I Break Chance Memento I Ristorante Amore

This is something that's been bugging me a bit too.

I love supporting budding artists, but the main thing that has prevented me from investing is that it seems like so much of a risk, not only financially, but also emotionally. Sometimes, it seems almost like a betrayal when a developer just drops a project, or lets it dwindle down.

As a side note, there's also one other thing that bugs me about crowdfunding campaigns. If you're lucky, you might see a pitch that says that the funding goes to creating sprites, composing music, etc. The good ones have a dollar amount attached to each resource($20 per sprite, $50 per song, etc.) But I don't think I have ever seen a pitch that mentions anything remotely related to marketing. From what I've heard, AAA games spend 2/3 to 3/4 of their budget on marketing, but for indie games, there isn't a single mention of it, even though it's arguably much more important for them. Maybe it's just me, but I would much rather have the developers use the extra money from the campaign for marketing, instead of adding a few new features, or maybe add a sprite for a character I don't care about.

It seems like Indie developers are acting like crowdfunding equals sales, whereas people who donate (hopefully) think of it as an investment in an interesting idea, with a few benefits attached.


Edit: I've been thinking of creating a thread in the creator's discussion forum about ideas for marketing crowd funded games, especially coming from the point of view of experienced, traditional commercial game makers. Would that be redundant considering this thread, or perhaps would it be better in general discussion?

To me, any document designed to attract money or staff is a pitch. That 'Abstract' is a normal part of the pitching process, something to use to reassure the publisher or investors.

A GDD is basically a blue-print, a document to be followed to the letter so that you get a pre-defined outcome. It's also part of the contract, since it defines what you will be delivering at the end. In the case of crowd-funding, I'd recommend keeping as much wiggle-room as possible without looking evasive, because you are going to have to change it, possibly in quite dramatic ways, as you find limitations / opportunities and crowd-funders are likely to be less aware of this than seasoned investors and publishers.

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Recent work - iSchool Dreams: First Semester / iSchool Dreams: My Valentine (iPhone / iPad, dating sims)

i think it's better if we focus on demo/video and some screenshots instead of detailed document, most people in the internet are afraid of wall of text i think o.o;

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I think I was trying to draw a distinction between what most people think of a pitch, as in the elevator pitch, and something more detailed which contains specifics about the project including timelines and budget. Probably more like a design brief, except they are not as well known. That's why I said 'some kind of' design document since there are going to be quite a few changes needed based on the nature of visual novels and the indies who create them. Visual Novels generally don't have such things because they haven't been around as long and in terms of gaming are much, much cheaper to make. Proper design documents would have little point for visual novels devs, but they could make use of the skeleton as a way to outline their plans. Regardless of what we are going to be calling it, you need more than a traditional pitch where you amp up your idea. You need solid information available for those who want it.

@EroBotan, It doesn't hurt to provide the information, because it SHOULD already exist. People who don't want to read it don't have to, simply provide it as a downloadable attachment with only the overview in the main post. If you are asking people for money, you should be able to show people where it will be going and why. In my opinion, that trust and money deserves the respect of the devs. It is not something owed to you and you should be working towards showing and proving you can get the job done.

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The other 1/2 of Cyanide Tea l My Deviantart Account I My Tumber Account I Break Chance Memento I Ristorante Amore

A well researched breakdown of what the Kickstarter money is going to go to is something I'd like to see. If a developer has just pulled a number out of thin air as their target, they might not have taken into account a whole bunch of things that could crop up. Paying for artisits, voice actors and so on is easy to see, but then you get legal costs, the costs of making and shipping the kickstarter rewards, advertising and marketing costs, and so on.

Auro, i'm guessing that you have blood type A ?

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Nope, I'm O negative

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The other 1/2 of Cyanide Tea l My Deviantart Account I My Tumber Account I Break Chance Memento I Ristorante Amore

Lots of good tips in this thread. Just wanted to add the suggestion of looking at "what-not-to-do" examples, as well as good ones. You can learn a lot from where other people went wrong. Here's a list of visual novel Kickstarter pages that might be helpful for people going down the crowdfunded route.

Unsuccessful:

Call Connect
Lunar Fashion
Heart's Hollow (Not a pure VN, but it was posted on LSF so I'm putting it on here anyway.)
Devil Gene R, which is a special case because it was later redone and became part of the list below...

Successful:

Devil Gene R Episode 1
Bliss Stage

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Main Website * Tumblr
Play: In This Dream of Ours (5/7/2012)
Working on: Skylines, Dream's Dénouement, The Girl in Red
ouroborosconnect.com

@Auro, duh, I was so sure that I get it right >.< ... (back to read Blood Type comic*)

@kaleido: if Devil Gene and Bliss Stage was done in indiegogo instead of kickstarter, how do you think they will turn out?

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