What is Life When the Golden is Gone? (B/G, dark, religious)

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lemuel
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What is Life When the Golden is Gone? (B/G, dark, religious)

#1 Post by lemuel »

The following is an outline for a VN story that I would like to write, but I fear that there would not be enough interest. If people are interested, I shall post more character information, look into writing it down in full, and see about how to make my dreams (for I have terrible art skills and no programming skills) a reality.

Basic Premise: Farmind Nun’s Son was, due to a series of complicated circumstances, raised for the first thirteen years of his life by dwarfs even though he is himself human, of a noble family. At the age of 13, he was redeemed by his uncle, who viewed him as a way to undermine the control of the uncle’s brother over the lineage (for Farmind was the only son and heir of a lineage head). Given that his purpose was primarily to be a puppet for his uncle and a serviceable husband to his cousin, he was not very much educated in matters of law or faith. Although his family is Patripassionist Christian, as is about 90% of the province which his family governs, Farmind is himself a follower of the way of his dwarfen foster family, having only augmented his previous religious naivety with some basic and quite boring instruction in patripassionism from his fiancée and some continued initiation into some rites by his good friend and foster brother Wormgazer. However, the stubbornness that has allowed Farmind to preserve his faith has also gotten him into trouble. Due to an altercation with some elves over the rightness of defending the lives of the sacred maggots at Eel River Temple, he killed one of them and was forced to flee abroad, pursued by elven assassins. After many adventures (the content of which may be revealed depending on players’ choices), he returned to his family with a wife and scars both emotional and physical. Fearing that his exploits may cause his family to disintegrate into civil war, Farmind has used the riches of his journey to purchase the position of Minister of Truth for Christendom, responsible for hunting heretics, suppressing grave robbers, and trying to keep the various religious factions that have compounds in the capital happy.

As the story reveals, when faced with religious fanaticism and high degrees of political intrigue, maintaining the old ways may be impossible. The question becomes: which faith to live by?

Please be aware that this is a story that deals with controversial issues. All routes demonstrate beyond doubt the evil of consuming even the smallest bit of alcohol for non-medicinal reasons. Religious intolerance and the citation of Buddhist, Basilidian, Christian, and Marcionite scriptures to justify atrocities abound. This story also deals with torture, rape, cannibalism, abortion, and moral relativism. Those who are offended should avoid this story. I swear by the sutras whose wisdom guides me that I am not a troll. I am, by the sutras that guide me, a Buddhist who wants to write a story dealing with themes that interest me.

The following are some main characters who are not romancible:

Farmind Nun’s Son, the main character
Religion: Elf-Worshipper
Guiding Question: How should I respect the way of my ancestors?
Quotation: Yes, I worship elfs. Your fathers taught you about King Jesus, whom you worship without question for good and evil. I worship elfs as my father taught me. God of my Fathers, I say. Holy Father of a Multitude’s slave said “God of my master Father of a Multitude.”

Life: A human raised among dwarfs of the rivers, far mind was raised with their beliefs as a matter of course. On the course of their frequent travels from river country (north of Elf-land and even settler country) to Morning Star King’s Hall, he was found by agents of God is my Judge, younger brother of the Lord of that hall, who claimed that he was the long lost legitimate son of the late Lord The God’s Slave and thus the legitimate lord of the new kingdom. They bought him from the dwarfs and brought him to the hall where they discovered him more used to Dwarf ways and religion than Patripassion Christian civilization. How he adjusts to life as a government official in a Christian theocracy while not being himself Christian will be challenging, to say the least.

Dhammasasana White Lotus:
Religion: Nagarjunite Buddhist
Guiding Question: What motivates people to behave as they do?
Quotation: We must all realize that we all die. Having realized this, hatred ends.
Life: Far Mind befriended her when she was a child named Phyx in the dwarfen river country, and their friendship continued even when he was taken as a Lord, since she was the only human with whom he was fully comfortable in interacting. When he was 14 and she 15, they secretly married, for he believed that he loved her. When his family found out, they threatened to kill her if he would not divorce, so he did. Phyx was intrigued that he would engage in these dramatic swerves all allegedly motivated by love for her, and so she resolved to go on a spiritual journey to understand the human mind. Now, nine years later, she has returned to him with a strange name, black robes, and a tattoo of an eye on her scalp. Nobody is quite sure what to make of her, but since she only wants to advise Far Mind rather than marry him, he welcomes her presence as an old friend. Their romance may be over, but their friendship is not.

Now for the romantic paths, religions that may be converted to, and models of the stories:

There are five romantic routes planned, with each route focused around violation of one of the five Buddhist precepts that guide my life and the possibility of converting to a new religion.

Please note that these religions are often mutually incompatible in issues that are controversial. Just because Farmind converts to one religion and holds its tenets to be true in one route does not mean that it will be respected in other routes.

Romance with Marcelina

Marcelina:
Religion: Marcionite
Violated precept: Use of intoxicants.
Guiding Question: How are these laws the product of a loving God?
Quotation: Novels? Oh I love novels. My favourite is “Anthea and Habrocomes”! Except for the crucifixions. Those are no fun at all.
Personality and Life: The daughter of a diplomat from the Marcionite kingdom, Marcelina is stationed in Thebes due to a regrettable indiscretion on her part while her father frantically tries to mend diplomatic relations with a government that legally regards him as an anti-Christ. Prohibited from leaving the Kadmeia, viewed with suspicion whenever she opens her mouth (for Marcionites are devilishly cunning in spreading their heresies) and shunned by her peers of both sexes, Marcelina occupies her time in reading novels (she would be beheaded on sight if found with a Marcionite bible) and fantasizing about her heroine, Marcia by name, who tamed the wrath of the savage emperor Commodus of Rome. But Rome is on another planet, millennia removed. If only she could have a real opportunity to engage in some diplomatic or human excitement…But so far, no interaction comes, and so she violates Marcionite dietary rules in order to find some happiness.

Marcionite Christianity: founded by Marcion of Sinope, whom the Catholic Church holds to be the most dangerous opponent of Christianity in its history, Marcionitism has read the Old Testament, believed it to be true, and found it wanting. No loving god who sent Jesus Christ as saviour could, the Marcionites say, have created plagues to ravage humanity, destroy the world in a flood, etc. The Marcionites thus say that Yhvh, the god of Israel, created the world for good and for evil, but he did not send Jesus Christ as Saviour. Rather, a loving god, one who is yet foreign to this earth, (the Alien God) sent down to earth a phantasm in the form of a man bearing the name Jesus Christ in order to break people’s reliance on Old Testament and make them realize the need to break free of the material world in union with the divine. Marcionites according refrain from alcohols and meats, living simple lives (at least in theory).

Of the Christian sects present on the world where this story takes place, the Marcionites are the most popular heresy (heresy being defined officially as any sect that denies that Jesus Christ came in the flesh). They are, however, largely confined to only one nation, all other regions of humans having exterminated or driven them out, mindful that they are condemned by none other than Ignatius of Antioch as “mad dogs” and “beasts in the form of men”. Moreover, the bible says that all who deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh are anti-Christs. How tolerant or intolerant, bestial or non-bestial the Marcionites are in this setting, the player may discover through certain choices.

Model for Route: Expect lots of legal matters. Farmind is officially involved in the Ministry of Justice, and this route will show him becoming seriously interested in justice. Much tension derives from application of biblical law to real life and a dispute over how much of this law is applicable.

Romance with Sweet Earth and According to Flesh

Sweet Earth:
Religion: Too cynical to do much beyond be pious to all gods.
Violated precept: Sexual immorality
Guiding Question: Art thou wanting to live forever?
Quotation: I could kill a man with one knife, or I could blow up his house with one bomb, or I could burn his fields with one torch. Warfare offers so many options, but ultimately they boil down to the masterful cliché “no man, no problem”.
Personality and Life: A young woman from settler country whose entire life, it seems, has been consumed by violence and warfare. She is most notorious for inflicting a crushing defeat upon the elves at the age of 15 and leading a mercenary company by the age of 16. Unfortunately, her skills as a tactical and strategic prodigy were not enough to prevent her from being defeated by a coalition of enemies and enslaved at the age of 18. She is now the slave of the chief giver of feasts from second friendly town, who uses her to command his bodyguard in Christendom’s capital as he engages in sensitive diplomatic work. He is however, willingly to give her considerable liberty, and she for her part is determined to engage in many hedonistic acts. But is there a tremor of sadness to her otherwise cliché personality?

According to Flesh:
Religion: Apollonian Tengriism
Violated precept: sexual immorality
Guiding Question: How many are the cattle of the sun?
Quotation: I understand many secrets that you would do well to learn. Yet thou ignorest me, and thou mockst me! Well, the receiver of many will not mind receiving ye.
Personality and life: She is Farmind’s second wife, a hyperborean from another dimension (corresponding in language, appearance and customs to the Tocharians) whom he met while fleeing elven assassins. Her tribe holds Phoebus Apollo in highest regard, yet she is above them even in piety. Despite her lack of lineage, her clear dedication to the God and His mysteries allowed her to be initiated into his rituals, and she is accounted a priestess among her people. Yet when Farmind saved her life by marrying her, she resolved to go to his homeland with several hundred followers in the hopes of converting them to the worship of Phoebus Apollo. Life has been difficult. Many of her followers are sick or demoralized, they are threatened with death for attempting to proselytize, and her husband Farmind is more interested in other women and religions than her own faith and relationship with him. Might it be possible for them to reignite love, or are they doomed to drift apart?

Micians: Non-Christians who follow the Chinese sage Micius. As such, they oppose music, lavish funerals, arbitrary customs, and non-meritocratic government. They worship many spirits and ghosts, but above all revere Heaven, whom they hold to be the most benevolent being in the universe. Heaven, they believe, is not above morality, but in His supreme moral goodness he acts according to the greatest moral code, rewarding the just and punishing the unjust. The Micians constantly seek models for behaviour and policies, and for their moral policies they seek no authority from Jesus Christ or Yhvh or any god, short of Heaven. They have their own scriptures.

In this world, the Micians are the poorest of humans both in wealth and in the fertility of their land, which is very remote compared to Christendom. Nonetheless, they were regarded as a curiosity (since they were not beasts in human form like the Marcionites) until the nobleman Yhvh is my Strength sought refuge among them while he pursued his claims to the high kingship of the Christians. His opponents, four kings in number, united to attack the Micians, four kings against one. The Micians, however, due to their unprecedented skill with fortifications, artillery, and infantry tactics, soundly defeated these four kings. Two of them were killed in battle, a third taken captive, and the fourth, his power destroyed, became the brotherly friend of he who had once been his enemy. Having supported, and possibly even converted to their religion, the high king Yhvh is my Strength in his quest for dominance, the Micians were assimilated into the kingdom with great liberalness. Alone among non Christians, they are not required to pay tribute for their non Christian religion, they are allowed to maintain their own laws and internal government, and they may even semi-openly proselytize. When they render homage to their lord, they are not required to play music in accompaniment. Currently, the Micians are a reclusive group, much valued for their skill in defensive warfare but otherwise regarded as faintly alarming others. There are several mercenary companies wandering around offering services as fortress consultants, most notably Heaven’s Darlings. A regiment of Micians serves as the high king’s elite body guard, and are famed for their taciturn personalities and their utter ruthlessness in killing all who would oppose him. This comes from the Mician conception of high kings: high kings are those who have been appointed by heaven himself to rule over the world benevolently and well, so to oppose a high king is to oppose the ultimate benevolence. This means that such opponents are hideously evil.

Model for Route: Useless hedonism punctuated by frantic outburst of rage and violence. Farmind is more interested in having fun than in having any form of intellectual, occupational, or emotional responsibility. Flirting with Sweet Earth certainly allows him to experiment with many interesting experiences and meet many interesting people, but it also exposes him to her belief that violence solves everything.

Romance with Snow White Bitterness

Snow White Bitterness:
Religion: Whatever shocks
Violated precept: Killing
Quotation: I think that I may be a bit of a Jew this solemn Friday! Wantst some raisin cakes deepfried in pig fat? They are delicious.

Personality and Life: The daughter of a knight who was raised to the position of captain of the second gate of Thebes (a high position for one of his birth), Snow White Bitterness was born soon after this happy event. However, a career among the sons and daughters of lawyers, physicians, and guards was unfortunately prevented by her body, well formed except for her skin, which was white as snow, her hair, which was red as blood, and her eyes, which were as green as grass in spring. The bible is quite clear that those who have snow white skin have been cursed by god, so she was named after its most famous sufferer (Numbers 12:1-10) and denied a normal life. Her father considered giving her to a nunnery upon birth, realizing that to kill one of his children would be a waste of assets, but he decided instead to train her as a spy and assassin who could help in his career. Unfortunately, so harsh was the treatment given to her and so good her training that she fled his control and is now a half feral freelance agent who can be hired for assassination, spying, theft, or grave robbery. Yet she really wants human contact of a sort that she has never known outside of dreams…

Buddhists: There are, according to the scriptures of the Buddhists, which I sincerely believe in, billions upon billions of inhabited worlds, and billions upon billions of buddhas who at various times are born on these worlds in full frail mortality to spread the buddhadhamma that allows all sentient beings to break free of sufferings. Thus, some characters in this game are Buddhists, but they do not follow the teachings of the Buddha of this age and planet, Siddhata Gotama Buddha, the sage from the sun lineage of the Shakyas of Kapavilasu, Nepal. That having been said, any and all sentient beings exposed to the Buddhadhamma, even if preached by a different species, can benefit from Buddhism. According to the Lotus Sutra, even a dragon’s daughter may achieve enlightenment. And according to the Pali Canon, even a serial killer, entirely given over to murder and rage, may, through contact with a Buddha or his teachings, burst the bounds of his karma that would otherwise deposit him in a hell and achieve enlightenment.

This world’s aboriginal inhabitants, a species of sentient humanoid beavers (the dwarfs, elfs, and humans being really colonists from other planets) are unfortunate enough to be born in an era where Buddhism has been forgotten (for even the highest of gods will die, as Nagarjuna teaches). However, the Nagas, those wonderous compilers and guardians of Buddhist lore, have access to the beavers through their waters, and from them has come one woman, versed in the Buddhadhamma, who vows to spread the dhamma whether possible or not.

Model for route: Horror! Definitely horror. This has very dark content planned for it, ranging from murders to cannibalism to more emotionally traumatic subtlety.

Romance with The Merciful’s Slave

The Merciful’s Slave:
Religion: Basilidian Gnosticism
Violated precept: lying
Guiding Question: Why must a man suffer so?
Quotation: We all deserve what we get, so let us be neither happy nor sad at fortune.
Personality and Life: The Merciful’s Slave is a torturer working in the Ministry of Truth under Farmind. She is a taciturn sort normally, not given to sentimentality or emotion, but takes a quiet and obvious pride in her skill as torturing criminals. But Farmind accidentally discovers a terrible truth about her: she is a heretic who prays to 365 gods! Does he dare to pursue a romance with this coolly competent woman who follows a religion about which he knows nothing? Does he want to risk being sacrificed and eaten if it turn out that her religion is not benevolent? Or should he simply arrange for her to be tortured by the instruments that she knows so well?

Model for Route: Crime fiction. Farmind must spy on his underling, determine what she knows and does not know, and join her in investigations (not involving torture!) of crimes.

Romance with Hippodamia

Hippodamia:
Religion: Atheist
Violated precept: stealing
Guiding Question: What madness is my brother up to?
Quotation: I can recite the Book of Revelations from beginning to end, I can speak with my slave in her native language, I have studied Vegetius from beginning to end, and yet you are saying that I cannot join ye?
Personality and Life: Hippodamia, as her Hellenistic name indicates, is a true scholar, fluent in the great languages of Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and English. She can produce commentaries on Isaac Newton’s defense of Arianism in the original English, and has been encouraged to take advantage of her high status in society (for she, like Farmind, is of the highest nobility) to study the esoteric Newtonian philosophy in her spare time when not pleasing a husband (she is not yet married, but should be soon) or producing his children. If she were a man, she would doubtlessly be made a bishop in the Arian church, and as it is she is regarded as being intellectually equal to her brother Theophilus who is the bishop of her family. Yet she and her brother have a dark secret that is not sexual: they are dissenters. He denies that the Saviour came in the flesh and she is an atheist. Both of them, if caught, would be executed if they were not to repent, yet she for one cannot bring herself to believe in a god. And her resolve is now being strengthened by the tender ministrations and philosophical musing of her beloved Nausikaa, a dwarfen atheist and reciter of songs whom she stole from her owner in a distant land. Yet slaves cannot freely love their masters, nor masters their slaves. How will she find love as a bisexual atheist who is hated and feared as an atheist even by her beloved brother?

There are three main religions presented in this route, all of which may be obscure and two of which are probably obscure:

Arian Christianity is a form of Christianity claiming that Jesus Christ was the son of God rather than God himself, of similar and not the same substance to the Father. There is no Trinity in Arianism. Isaac Newton was an Arian, and wrote a paper (secretly) defending the disbelief in the Trinity.

Theophilus’s religion is the religion outlined at http://www.jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/home.htm. He himself did not discover it, but was taught it by a learned and creative dwarf who decided, upon converting to Christianity, to start his instruction by reading the Epistles first, since they are, even within the context of the bible’s chronology, written before the gospels. Accordingly, Theophilus believes that his sister has been possessed by a demon of atheism, and is determined to exorcise this being in the name of Christ Jesus.

Atheism: It truly saddens me that I have to write about atheism in this way, but there are so many misconceptions about it that I cannot deny my words rein. Atheism, quite simply, is the lack of believe in gods. It comes in two major forms: weak atheists who simply cannot create within their minds a belief in a god (e.g. due to lack of exposure to the idea and inability to form independently this belief), and strong atheists who actively disbelieve in gods (that is, they believe that the gods whom others worship are false and no other gods exist). Nowhere in atheism is there the abominable morality that is often attributed to atheists. Atheists, when pressed, regard Satan and Yhwh and Jesus Christ (that is, Jesus in his role as God) as equally fictitious (although most admit that Jesus was a real person. Atheists do have morality, which they derive from logic and the natural progress of human emotion when confronted with terrible things. Indeed, according to Hindu classifications of philosophy, Buddhism is a form of atheism, because it holds that the gods are not immortal and should not be followed if their commands are immoral. This Buddhist belief in divine mortality is not fringe. Nagarjuna, the great Buddhist philosopher, whose writings underlie Tibetan Buddhism, Zen Buddhism, and Sanlun Mahayana Buddhism (all three great schools), wrote quite explicitly that gods die. Hippodamia started out as a weak atheist, but under the influence of her more cynical slave has migrated to strong atheism.

Model for this route: A family drama! Surprising as it may seem, this route is indeed based on family conflicts and disputes, with kinsmen and kinswomen, slaves and retainers, all picking sides in a secret conflict that dare not speak its name too loudly. There are, moreover, some comic interludes involving crossdressing and plans for marriage.

Does anybody want to comment?

Here are some character portraits. Hippodamia, Marcellina, and According to Flesh are dressed for a party.

And my title page.

Lo! An "elf"!
Attachments
Does this not seem like a lover of the flute?
Does this not seem like a lover of the flute?
titlegood.jpg
PORTRAITS-2.jpg
PORTRAITS-1.jpg
Last edited by lemuel on Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: What is Life When the Golden is Gone? (B/G, dark, religi

#2 Post by FatUnicornGames »

This sounds like it could be interesting. It is certainly unlike what I usually see around here. Don't worry too much about interest if it is something you want to write though. I think if you have a good product people will be interested.

As far as programming skills go, I didn't have any when I first started with Ren'Py a few months ago and I have grown leaps and bounds since then. Just look at the tutorials, search the forums and if worst comes to worst ask a question of your fellow lemma board patrons.

As far as art goes, use dummy art until you can get an artist. If the story is solid and you really show you can get things done you'll likely find somebody who is interesting in helping. Either that or you could hire somebody.

Good luck!
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Re: What is Life When the Golden is Gone? (B/G, dark, religi

#3 Post by gekiganwing »

There are free and inexpensive resources for characters, background art, music, and so on. If you need help finding them, then be sure to ask.

Your concept definitely seems ambitious. Unfortunately, I suspect it might be a little too ambitious for a freeware VN. Think about how much time you can dedicate to your project, and how many ideas you want to include. You might need to scale back your plans, in order to avoid fatigue, or getting bogged down with details.

I believe you'll benefit by focusing on characters and plot. Why do I say this? Reading through your outline, I admit that I had trouble figuring out who the characters were, what they wanted, and how they were connected to each other. In another topic, you said that your main character "is seeking a moral model upon which to base his life." I believe you'll have a compelling story if you portray his and others' lives and beliefs foremost, and then use them as a springboard to talk about religions.

Second, it sounds like your story takes place in a fantasy world, since you mentioned elves and dwarves several times. Don't be afraid to show the world in general. Let us understand your characters' ordinary lives, and give us an idea of how the world works when there is no crisis. Tell us through the story how the nations in your world view specific religions. Which ones are countries dedicated to, which ones are violently persecuted, which ones are ignored, etc.

I understand that your story has potential to offend. But no matter what character and belief you portray, strive to avoid making them into a straw man.

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Re: What is Life When the Golden is Gone? (B/G, dark, religi

#4 Post by lemuel »

Wow! A comment on my idea! I am honoured! Please do not hesitate to be precise about what is interesting in my proposal.

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Re: What is Life When the Golden is Gone? (B/G, dark, religi

#5 Post by lemuel »

Ah, yes. I am aware that it is very ambitious. But my original plan was much more ambitious.

A fine suggestion, to talk about ordinary life.

With regard to a crisis...I have not provided any hint of there being any, have I? By the summary, the most pressing problems seem to be relationships, freedom of expression/thought, finding a moral compass, and the odd crime (suitable concerns for a punishments minister).

There certainly is a crisis of some sort, but it can be ignored easily in many routes.

In a few days, I shall write about the land, then about the minor characters.

By the way, even If I were to have infinite time and money, this game would not have music.

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Re: What is Life When the Golden is Gone? (B/G, dark, religi

#6 Post by FatUnicornGames »

It's ambitious, but I don't see the problem with that if you have the follow through.

As far as what is interesting. I enjoy thoughtful comparisons of religions. I am curious if you will be taking a side other than "fanaticism is bad". I am a little confused what each characters "violated precept" entails. I assume it is something they have done. Though I may have missed something.

Too bad about the music. I think a sweeping fantasy soundtrack could be really cool in something like this. There are plenty of free resources for that too. :D

I have no problem with offensiveness as long as there is a purpose to it. Not that I can't get into pointless violence (grind-house anyone?) but in this case it could be really tasteless given the serious overtones you seem to want to present.
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Re: What is Life When the Golden is Gone? (B/G, dark, religi

#7 Post by Sapphi »

Oh my, this is certainly a thoughtful proposal. :)

I'm gonna side with gekiganwing on this one and say that it does seem very ambitious - I mean, you could probably write a whole book for each of the different routes Farmind can go. Of course, depending on your method of storytelling, it might not be as daunting.

Right now, this seems to be more about exploring ideas rather than romancing characters; the characters are essentially types which stand for certain ideas. This is a legitimate form of literature... I'm thinking of The Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan in particular. However, it can also be rather dull - without well-developed characters, it's hard to care about where the story is going, even if the ideas it presents are interesting. You have a lot of information about your characters' beliefs and political involvements, but not a lot about their personalities, which makes it hard for me to imagine "romantic" possibilities with them in the context of what that word usually implies in this genre.
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Re: What is Life When the Golden is Gone? (B/G, dark, religi

#8 Post by lemuel »

Ah, well, the fact is that I do have romantic actions and scenes planned, but given that I cannot understand romantic love as a concept, some things may seem a bit off.

With regards to fanaticism: Yes, that is my message, but it is a good one, I hope. But this setting and its characters are a whole lot more than a way to communicate an allegory (although I have considered this, truly). I have been working on this for 6 years, and originally it had nothing to do with religion. The incorporation of religion came to me in a dream, and I originally dismissed the idea as absurd, before thinking "why should my setting have characters worshiping some facile counterpart to Christianity and its morality (as so many Fantasies seem to do)? Why not have them as Christians? That way I can have a fantasy story dealing with both religion and theology." Thus I thought.

With regards to Music: I am, aside from being a Buddhist, a Mician. Master Micius said "To have music is wrong!"

I am aware, I suppose, that the characters seem to float in a void. Upon my honour, I shall write something about the nations today.

Thank you very much for your critiques and support! They mean much to me.

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Re: What is Life When the Golden is Gone? (B/G, dark, religi

#9 Post by MaiMai »

lemuel wrote:Ah, well, the fact is that I do have romantic actions and scenes planned, but given that I cannot understand romantic love as a concept, some things may seem a bit off.
This is a bit strange to me; if romance concepts aren't something you understand wouldn't you be better off leaving it out of your story? It kind of feels shoehorned in otherwise. You already have a ton of material to work with it looks like especially since you're working on trying to express the negativity of fanaticism.
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Re: What is Life When the Golden is Gone? (B/G, dark, religi

#10 Post by lemuel »

Just because I do not understand romance does not mean that I am not interested in it! If hollywood monstrosities that are called romance (and TWILIGHT) can be praised, surely I can try to present a model (or five) of romance.

Master Micius said: Now the wheelwright grasps his compass & uses it to measure the round & not-round in the world, saying, “What matches my compass, call it ‘round,’ what doesn't match my compass, call it ‘not-round.’” Thus round & not-round can both be known. What is the reason for this? It's that the model for “round” is clear. (Book 27, “Heaven's Intention”)

Certainly, love and wheels are different, but I, as a Mician, seek to find models for everything. The closest model for Romantic love that I am aware of is a close friendship combined with profound tenderness. Let the development of these two elements serve as an approximation of Romantic love in my stories. Is this suitable?

lemuel
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Re: What is Life When the Golden is Gone? (B/G, dark, religi

#11 Post by lemuel »

Well, I got further along in this than I thought possible (this began as a fantasy, no more), and now have a (more or less) complete list of characters (whom I will provide information about, lol), an excerpt from a conversation in the Hippodamia Route, and FREAKING TITLE ART. My merit has not granted me great artist talents (I cannot writ under one inch letters), but god and men - art, at last!

Please note the following:

My art will no have shadows or non-profiles. Everything will be either face-on or profile (yes, I am that bad).

The hand is not a human hand but a dwarfen hand (Corva Gloriosa's FYI) - no, I am not that bad an artist.

Non-Romanceable Characters:

Emperors, Kings, and Great Officials who make the world what it is:

The Deceased Emperor YHVH is my Shield: In theory, all Christians live in a great Christian state called Christendom, whose emperor has supreme authority over secular matters and to a considerable degree influences
The Retired Emperor Heaven’s Son:
The Cloistered Emperor The Anointed’s Slave:
The Reigning Emperor God is my Judge:
Chief Giver of Feasts for Second Friendly Town Honeybee Warrior:
Retired Governor of Syr Tattooed Pigeon from Heart’s Ease:
Emperor of the Dwarves Processor Worm:
Empress of the Dwarves Corva “Philo” Gloriosa:
The Prophet’s Son and Light Bearer of Thule
King Mark

Mysterious Beings whose nature is unknown to most under Heaven:
The Sky Maiden

Harassed Functionaries who strive to survive in a difficult world:
Minister of Justice Funambulant Serenity
Minister of Law Judicious Polydegmon
Minister of Ceremonials Weasel

Men and Women of the Book (what book, they cannot agree upon)
The Arian Pope
The Patripassian Pope
The Nestorian Pope
The Guiding Light of the Church of Anointed YHVH Saves Redeemer
The Appellean Pope
The Lesser Beloved Lady:
The Humane Master
The Good Man:
The Purified Man
The Lord Patriarch:
Arian Bishop Theodoros:
Shaman Lover of the People
Apostle of Anointed YHVH Saves Latter Walking Fetus

Nobles who, although lacking great power, are nonetheless important:
Commander of the Kadmeia YHVH is Lord
Princess She Belongs to Her Father
Prince YHVH is My Shield
Prince Beloved Man
Prince Who is Like the God?
Queen White Silk
King Peaceful Mountain

People who, due to their exclusion from government’s higher ranks and nobility, must strive for whatever life they can achieve:
Luck is my God:
John:
Sixth Skilled Weaver
Freed Jew Bitterness
Mountain Goat
Nntai from Chotpaan:

People who seek Elevation through War, which They Claim to be Skilled At:
Heaven’s King:
She Raises Flames:
Great Leader of Superior Infantry for Second Friendly Town Dumb Big Ox:
Bright Mountain

Slaves:
Golden Silk the Silk-Lander: According to Flesh’s slave and most prized possession, about whom she has said:

I have an oracle-waif, golden-shinned and black-haired,
for whom I would not trade all Lydian wheat
even when mixed with trade-cloth from her homeland.
Her beauty inflames me to obvious good health.

Why she is prized is a thing best-left unquestioned by those who desire freedom from long discussions of religion. Could Farmind have the liver for such discourses?

Syrian Dog-Eunuch
Nausicaa
Yulia

Conversation Excerpt and notes:

Lover of the People: “Friend Far Mind, greetings! I have become, as we agreed, a gallus. I have studied their rites, memorized their prayers, and now perform their acts due to the blissful agonies that I should have undergone years ago. I have been over the past several days recovering from my ordeal, but now I understand enough of my new body that I can help thee in thy scheme for love.”

Far Mind: “Friend Lover of the People, many thanks are due to thee for thy efforts on my behalf. Now then …”

Lover of the People: “Do not thank! I am not and never will be loyal to thee, barbarian. My first loyalty is to According to Flesh, and would she not pay dearly to learn what I have learned? For I know that thou art involved with the Sighers, that thou are affiliated with those whom this ecume calls degenerates, that thou art seeking a new partner while still eating bread. Truly, I do not understand why I do not simply reveal thy machinations to the world. In fact…”

Cinaedus: “I love thee and follow thee as a brother among the Ink People, and would gain an eternity of suffering should I betray my great conscience, eh, Castrated Ram? Do not fight me, nor put thy finger into my mouth, for
I have a swift knife that is sharp
And a mind that can use it well.
Now, seeing that you both have what you need to become galli, you should really train.
Even the greatest of ideas
May be bungled by two fools.”

Terms:

Cinaedus: A transvestite entertainer (cf. the White Sleeves/Shira-Byooshi of Heian Japan); in this theocratic setting, they are sometimes used by those by those desiring samesex entertainment while having plausible deniability (“Honestly, yo Morality Officer, I thought that he was a woman!”). They are often stereotyped, as with Romans, as being passive homosexuals. Far Mind is not quite sure of the sex of the Cinaedus in this segment, so he avoids using gendered pronouns. In the event, she is a male impersonator (this not historically accurate, in so far as Cinaedi were always female impersonators, but I figure that since it is my world I can violate rules like this).

Gallus: A man who castrates himself in service to a god, who really existed in Ancient Rome associated with the cults of Cybele and Christ (Origen castrated himself mindful of Jesus’s saying that “some have made themselves eunuchs for heaven’s sake”). In this setting, the only official galli are the Mother’s Slaves (priests of the Nurturing Mother of Our Redeemer YHVH Saves). But other orders were suppressed, most notably (for the purposes of my story) the Eunuchs for Heaven’s Sake (who fought several bloody battles with Emperor Heaven’s Son during the Wars of the Brotherhoods/the Just War) and the Apostles’ Mendicants (from whose ranks one was found to perform the marriage ceremony when Far Mind and DHammasasana eloped). The Eunuchs for Heaven’s Sake were a Marcionite priesthood cum defense force for the empire’s small and persecuted Marcionite community (whose members are at the best of times treated legally as children and the worst of times as demons who should be killed on sight). They were broken as a power due to their military power, wealth, and elevation of docetists (in this context, people who believe that Jesus Christ only seemed to have a physical body). The Apostles’ Mendicants were a mendicant order of preachers and alleged miracle workers who regarded the Diatesseron as scripture. While they were poor, they were broken on the ground that, in keeping with the teaching of Ignatius of Antioch, docetists such as they are are beasts in human form. Other gallus groups were eliminated Wars of the Brotherhoods due to their wealth and military power rather than deviant doctrines.

So. Is my conversation excerpt interesting? Is my art not absolutely terrible?

Please let me know. Accumulate merit regardless of opinion!
Attachments
The Menu BG art!
The Menu BG art!

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Re: What is Life When the Golden is Gone? (B/G, dark, religi

#12 Post by gekiganwing »

I appreciate your willingness to work on world building, and to address complex topics. Innovation is good. Thinking outside the typical boundary lines of a genre or format is admirable.

One caution: make sure your characters and world are not too alien. I've been thinking about this potential problem ever since listening to The GR80s discuss the 1982 movie Tron. I know that your story is quite different -- it's certainly not about computers or programmers. Even so, you will want to ensure that people can relate to the conflicts and issues that you present.

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Re: What is Life When the Golden is Gone? (B/G, dark, religi

#13 Post by lemuel »

Thanks for the word of encouragement. All names of human characters are literal translations of Greek or Arabic or Hebrew words and phrases, if that helps the understanding.

Well, I am almost done my second batch of portraits.

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Re: What is Life When the Golden is Gone? (B/G, dark, religi

#14 Post by lemuel »

Updated so that Art may be seen more easily.

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Re: What is Life When the Golden is Gone? (B/G, dark, religi

#15 Post by lemuel »

And Lo! Six Character Portraits in 2 days!

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