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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:03 am 
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Anyway... Hello... it's me again... your favorite Uncle... Uncle Mugen...

as someone who strives to perfect the art of creating backgrounds "the cheap and easy way" for OELVN's (aka Original English Language Visual Novels) I know sooner or later that I will have to deal with what probably is THE MOST COMMON TYPE OF BG in VN's... the protagonist's room...


So the question is... what makes a typical VN / Eroge Protagonist Room look well... something out of a typical VN / Eroge Protagonist Room... and this is what were here to study and analyze and imitate so come and join me for a while as we explore this VN staple BG that it... the protagonist's room...


Image


As you have seen in the image above... they have few things in common that defines them as THE ROOM of the protagonist... let's see, the obvious one's are...


Bed
Window
Computer Table and Chair
Wooden Floor
Sound System
Books
Trashbin
Ceiling Light
Airconditioner


So uh... basically some of the staples of a typical bedroom... now let's look closer at what makes them look good...

Image


THERE! That's what makes those BG's looked hand drawn!... Those gradients that seems to defy the mechanics of light! While in most eroge they still behave as intended... darker areas farther to light source lighter areas nearer to light source... this is what you get 100% when you use 3D which unfortunately is too accurate making them look more... mechanical than what is produced manually by an artist which despite in some cases being totally wrong... here's an example...


Image


As you can see... the shadow indicates that part of the desk is casting a harsh shadow on the wall but if you look closely at the surrounding objects... their shadows suggests that the ceiling light has a higher lumen... if this is 3D that shadow wouldn't even be there or if it is it will probably be not that prominent... and despite that... this minor flaw doesn't change the fact that this BG is beautiful... and pleasant to look at... so I come to the conclusion that for bedrooms or any other interior scenes to look good on OELVN's... those nonsensical gradients is a must...


Easier said than done... while part of our objective is to identify what makes a protagonist room look good the other part is... how do we do it?

Well... there is the option of drawing it manually but nah!... not everyone can draw BG's and were here to find cheap and quick methods to do it where everyone can do it...

Since were using 3D and sketchup (Lol! Free Furniture... though you still have to manually model your room)... you could texture the walls to have gradient but nah!... that defeats the purpose... simply hitting render button will not solve our problem since when you do render closed interior scenes in 3D... they have this evil tendency to look... dark since the outside light will overwhelm everything else making lighted things too light while burning the rest which is not what we wanted to have (Though they still look good)... look again at the BG's above... all of them are lively, bright and gradient riddled... then I realized what I needed to do to achieve that unusual gradient in the walls... all I needed to do is to add a lightsource in the proper place that will produce those gradients we want...


Image

I believe they are called... Omnilights... so after I'm satisfied with the gradient it produced in the walls... it's time to introduce to the scene the external light (aka Sunlight) and this is the result...

Image

Hmmm... while it did generate the gradient... it's not as grand as I wanted it to be... a few more adjustments here and there and still not getting the result I wanted...

Image

OK... so I give up!... It's not working as I intended... so what do you think Lemmasoft?... What makes a hand drawn BG look attractive?... what makes them so pleasing to the eye... I really wanted to know so I can develop and perfect cheap and quick methods to imitate that hand drawn look as close as possible without actually drawing them manually... I will take note of them...

Image

Oh and... Darkspartan... yes... this is that gradient thing I'm taking about earlier and no this BG is not for Academy Daze but made for uh... (Don't worry... I swear it will be close to this)...


"POOF" (Disappears)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:23 am 
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It's looking pretty good for me, since I'm someone who woudn't be able to do this not even in a million years XD I think it's just the objects in the room that are lacking stronger shadows/highlights (the hand drawn CGs have shadows that look more defined). Hand drawn BGs look more attractive to me because the artist imprints their personality on them, because of course it's not an accurate portrait of reality. So you'd get very different BGs depending on the artist, even if it's just coloring inside the lines. 3D has just this tendency to look a little… flat? Not in terms of perspective, but of personality.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:27 am 
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Arcanum wrote:
I think it's just the objects in the room that are lacking stronger shadows/highlights (the hand drawn CGs have shadows that look more defined)

Noted and saved!... Thanks!... I'll show you the results later...

"POOF" (Disappears)

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[ STUDIO MUGENJOHNCEL ]   [ UNCLE MUGEN'S BACKGROUND TUTORIAL ]
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:33 am 
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The last one still looked something that came out of MMD or something.

Which reminds me while browsing the "shit in the frontpage thread" of ED, a lot of posts there point out to works by weeaboos "artists" imitating screencaps of animu.

Might wanna give it a shot on how they do it?

[edit]
just went back to that thread.
and I think it's a play on softglow and gaussian blur.

For me the stuff placed in the room looked too "sharp" and stiff.

off topic
lintek, ang gagara naman ng mga kwarto nila, tangina yan


[edit3]
I've just noticed that your examples look less saturated than the ones you made.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:55 am 
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While trying to produce defined shadows... Increased the intensity of the light outside in hopes of casting more defined shadows... instead... it just made the whole scene darker... Lol!

Chorvaqueen wrote:
I think it's a play on softglow and gaussian blur.

While this defeats the purpose of this activity which is to find a way to produce quickly and cheaply... I still tried it and here is the result... mind if you give me a link to the said article?...

Image

Why can't I produce those shadows?... Darkspartan if you are here now is the time to lend us some of your knowledge...

Chorvaqueen wrote:
off topic
lintek, ang gagara naman ng mga kwarto nila, tangina yan


Wala yan... nakita mo na ba "munting" bahay ko na may swimming pool malapit sa Laguna Lake?... no I'm not kidding this time...


"POOF" (Disappears)

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800x600 is the Sacred Resolution that guarantees smooth playback on every machine...
Studio Mugenjohncel proudly supports 800x600 game resolution with Burning Passion
[ STUDIO MUGENJOHNCEL ]   [ UNCLE MUGEN'S BACKGROUND TUTORIAL ]
Image
 [ UNCLE MUGEN'S TWITTER ]  [ UNCLE MUGEN'S FREE OELVN BG'S ]


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:58 am 
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The problems I see as a non-artist without any clue of drawing whatsoever (but well, I'm a possible player, ain't I? ;) ):

First off: The examples you posted have one thing in common: The rooms are pretty much filled with things. Your room instead has a dominant left side while the right side has a bed and...and nothing (at least on the ground). So in my case I always tend to look to the left in your room while the examples don't have anything that stands out and gets more attraction than the rest. This makes it a little bit disharmonic for me.

The second thing I noticed: Every picture besides the last one uses brighter colors, which naturally lighten the mood. The only exception would be the last one where it seems that the whole novel is brown-themed, but that seems like something you can only do with 2D stuff. In your case we have a brown floor, a brown table, a brown bed, a brown cupboard, a brown desk, brown items in the shelf...more than 50% of everything in there is brown. Working on that could help as well.

It may of course just be a thing with lights, I wouldn't know about that.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:14 pm 
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Quote:
While this defeats the purpose of this activity which is to find a way to produce quickly and cheaply... I still tried it and here is the result... mind if you give me a link to the said article?...

here's the nearest stuff
http://bechnokid.deviantart.com/art/Ani ... -185292428
Not linking to EDF, it's gonna cause some dramu lol


Every frigging house in pansol has a pool, even squatters have their own pool well if that counts


[edit]

though this isn't a bedroom and not based from sketchup
this is how I made mine (composite of photos/textures PD/royalty-free for anyone asking /gg) Ignore the fence and the plants, they are separate layers in-game and I'm planning to ax them later.

Image is composed of 3 photos: 1.) Fountain 2.) Floor Texture 3.) Groutless brick wall stock.

It's a play of GIMP's filters:
Oilify
Gaussian Blur
Duplicate Layer into 3 (keep one layer away for future use.)
Completely desaturate top layer

Softlight-layer desired tone (I used 3 colors: gray, saturated blue and unsaturated blue. I just put enough amount in specific areas and smudge them all over it)

Oilify tone layer
Flatten image
Manually blur sharp edges
Use the 3rd untouched image and put it over the flattened image and set it to...uhh (I forgot but you need this to retain that texture).
Flatten image
Slightly desaturate picture
Oilify again
Make another layer, set it to Overlay
slap Black to Transparent gradients on the sides to show where the lightsource is.

Note: You may have to keep adjusting values such as opacity and I do mean lots of values.

ok, nvm this method isn't cheap and YMMV on the outcome too.
PS: I have no knowledge of photoshop so I don't know if there's a one-click button that does this.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:35 pm 
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I don't know what it's called in your software but in Gimp it's called Filters>Distorts>iWarp. I've also seen it called something like "make liquid." Anway use this tool with large radius and low effect to sort of humanize the lines a bit. Everything just looks to perfect which gives the room that sort of "Uncanny Valley" effect. Honestly it's just so neat and clean and most hand drawn backgrounds are messier looking. Also I've found Gaussian blur on a duplicate layer set with low opacity can sort of soften up clean overly digital lines and give a more human look. I'd also color cast this with a split toning technique where one hue is applied to the shadows and another to the highlights. Lightroom and Nik Color Effex are both great programs for split tones but I'm sure it can be done in Photoshop or Gimp also.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:46 pm 
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mugenjohncel wrote:
While trying to produce defined shadows... Increased the intensity of the light outside in hopes of casting more defined shadows... instead... it just made the whole scene darker... Lol!

I'm really out of practice in 3D--and I'm afraid even when I did try out (pre-Google) SketchUp, I didn't use it for anything more than line art--but looking at your samples, my gut reaction is that your problem is with the renderer/lighting. It looks to me like you have one direct light coming from outside (the only one that's casting shadows), and the rest of the room is being lit by ambient (non-shadow-casting) lighting, which is why it looks so flat.

What you need is something to simulate the indirect light being bounced around the room, so that you have shadows under the bed, under the desk, the corners of the room and all of the other enclosed places that the light has a harder time getting to. I'd suggest looking into whether or not your renderer/lights have some sort of global illumination or ambient occlusion options, otherwise you may need to try faking it with a few low-range, low-intensity standard lights.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:28 am 
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Ah... uncle Mugen never dissapoints me XD
Then... what about the character's seat in his/her school? Why is it almost always near the window?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:57 am 
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Sometimes... you've got to learn to accept that you've done everything
you can in your power but there are some things just not meant to be...


So after spending some considerable time tinkering, adjusting, editing, moving a few sliders here and there... I looked at myself and assessed my current skill and decided to give myself a pat in the back... while I didn't managed to get the result I was after... that is, to streamline the BG creation process using 3D tools and ONLY 3D tools to produce a BG that looks as good as hand drawn in the shortest time possible... I still learned to appreciate how far I have gone... what you see below are the final results of this endeavor.

Image

While they don't quite look like hand drawn. I must admit that it looks good enough to be paired with the typical VN sprite. All that is left is to document my efforts and compile them in a sort of tutorial where anyone can learn and use this set of techniques... who knows, perhaps someday... someone will manage to create some sort of one button magical render that turns your 3D into beautiful hand drawn BG's or perhaps revise my current method and streamline it even further but for now... I'm happy with this interim result...

little_misere, you owe me a cup of coffee... no make it two! This thing kept me awake till 4:00AM... Lol! :mrgreen:

"POOF" (Disappears)

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800x600 is the Sacred Resolution that guarantees smooth playback on every machine...
Studio Mugenjohncel proudly supports 800x600 game resolution with Burning Passion
[ STUDIO MUGENJOHNCEL ]   [ UNCLE MUGEN'S BACKGROUND TUTORIAL ]
Image
 [ UNCLE MUGEN'S TWITTER ]  [ UNCLE MUGEN'S FREE OELVN BG'S ]


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:06 am 
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Much better, I like the right ones :).

Besides: It's kind of funny that you always talk about "creating something in a cheap and easy way" when you actually spend so much time to improve yourself. I don't see any difference to hand-drawn artists besides using other tools.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:19 am 
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I think the biggest "giveaway" for me is the texture. For instance, the wooden floor looks beautiful, and I especially like the light coming in through the window. The ceiling and ceiling light also look great. In contrast, the books on the shelf and the black table in the center of the room have really flat looking surfaces that don't seem to have a texture or much shading, so they stand out as CG. I know too much texture also looks really CG'd, but if it's too flat, then it's too "perfect" looking instead of looking like something drawn by hand.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:02 am 
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That's awesome Mugen-kun!
Still there are discreperancies about the color applied to white colored objects, that tend to catch the eye, because it's a bright color. And because of this, the object tends to feel out of place. There's also a problem with the furniture as Sake Bento said. Maybe is it a texture problem, or because you didn't apply any texture, I don't really know.

But still, your work there is impressive!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:09 am 
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IMO all the hand drawn bedroom are narrow and zoomed in compared with the 3d bedroom you created that is too wide and zoom out,

sorry for my bad english

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