Lemma Soft Forums

Have to admit, I'm guilty of the whole "I'm stalking you" posts. >_<
But I don't usually provide feedback because...

A.) Everything I wanted to say has already been pointed out, so I'm too lazy to add anything else.
B.) I'm too shy to add some of my personal opinions, since I fear that it might actually start a flame war.
C.) I'm also guilty of the "If you don't have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all." syndrome.

But I have reserved my "stalking" comments for projects that have really interested me, and to prevent it from looking like the usual "I am sooo stalking this" post. I usually add why the project has garnered my interest. And to prevent myself from looking like the-giddy fangirl-who-doesn't-care-about-the-VNs-freakingly-awsome-plot-and-only-wants-to-pursue-the-hot-bishies. I offer my beta-testing services and give my feedback through it, and whenever the developer of the VN I'm "stalking" is asking for opinions, I try giving something as long as it's not voiced out yet.

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"A fool who doesn't think is more foolish than a fool who foolishly thinks." - Franziska Von Karma
My avatar is chibi Alex in disguise, not chibi Zander. >_>

Most common reasons I've seen for not posting a critique:

-Not interested in the project. There's not much we can do on our end. I read all the WIP threads, but if it's just a paragraph about the story and a couple sketches, it's hard for me to say whether or not I'll be interested. Even if the premise is interesting, there's not enough to say other than "looks interesting!" It's not until a fairly meaningful amount of work is done that it's possible to offer any meaningful comments.

-Too lazy. Honestly, I think that goes hand in hand with "not interested." If a project is interesting enough, you'll find the energy it takes to write about it. Also, I think people don't want to put effort into a project that might never be completed. Why offer critique if the person might just disappear off the forums in a month, anyway?

-Afraid of backlash/being seen as a bad guy. We've had blow ups in the past involving critique, but I'll be honest here: It's mostly been over non-helpful critique. Or, rather, critique meant less for helping a person, and more for showing off how incredibly great the critiquer is at whatever it is they're talking about. Is this always the case? No. But the "blunt" or "brutally honest" types of criticism usually seem less like help and more like picking at flaws. Of course, there are plenty of cases in which the VN maker has reacted poorly to receiving any type of criticism, no matter how well intentioned it is. And hey, a lot of people are here to relax, have fun, and just do what they want. Not everyone has to aspire to pro levels of VN-i-tude. Or even "better" levels. Some people just want to enjoy themselves, and we should probably let them do that.

Ultimately, isn't the easiest solution just to ask for a critique if you want one, and offer enough completed work that people can give you reasonable feedback?

P.S.
I like one-line comments on my WIP threads. Even a small comment is a huge encouragement.

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I try to comment on the WIPs that I'm really interested in, but my comments are usually short and sweet. ^^; Otherwise, I won't comment at all.
I feel as if I'm not qualified to give people critique on their work.
If my art, writing, and programming skills are subpar, what right do I have to critique other's works in that area? :/
I'll leave the critiquing to the more skilled persons.
Also, I'm not fond of those "brutully honest" critiques. Like sake-bento said, they're more picking out every possible flaw than actually being helpful. And you can still give the same critique in a less harsh manner. I think prefacing a critique with "this will be brutally honest/harsh" can just be an excuse to be mean.

I second this. ^^ I don't see those comments as being useless... it makes me really happy when I know that people are looking forward to it, even if they don't have much to say.

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Most topics I'm only stalking... I don't want to repeat, what others said already. Also there are not many games, I'm really interested in. But when I comment, then it's mostly positive... if I don't like something, then it's better to say nothing at all instead of making the creator sad or even angry. (Also, my comments are usually rather shortish )

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Make that a third, maybe? Those short comments expressing interest are acceptable when the WIP topic is first posted up, but after a certain amount of work has been made on the project, then I tend to get annoyed by them. Can't the poster take a minute to state why they're interested in the game? I don't think I'm asking for too much when it comes to a reason why they want to play it.


Then whatever you didn't like will end up in the final game. If you spoke up when the game was still a WIP, then perhaps the developers would have considered changing it. There's no guarantee that they will change it, but you can at least know that you gave them a heads-up. I also prefer to keep my posts short if I can, because I know most people dislike textblocks and might just say "tl;dr."

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Oh, I actually ment, that I'm not posting, when I don't like the whole idea. Those games I won't play anyways, so... I keep quiet. (Shoot me! It's obvious, not to reply on a topic, which you don't like >_< I'm already writing nonsense again...)

But when it's something I'm interested in, I try to make suggestions instead of writing pure critique

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On Grey Wings (BxB, fantasy, adventure)
The Master's Call (BL, fantasy, dark romance)
Shadowborn (horror, supernatural, mystery)

Visit Michael Silverleaf on deviantART!
Visit Simon Stardust on deviantART!

I'm also very strongly in favor of the short comments just to express a general interest. Their usefulness depends a lot on the developer, I guess--for me, it's really quite uncommon that I actually see a project through to the end. Just the knowledge that somebody wants to see this completed does a whole lot to motivate me to keep going and not get distracted by the next new idea that comes to me. Of course, yes, a more specific comment helps more, but short comments are by no means useless to me.

As for why I don't give thorough feedback, I think that I need to be prodded into critique-mode. I don't automatically think of suggestions to make unless the developer specifically asks a question or indicates an aspect they'd like feedback on, even when someone says that they want any critique. I don't know if this is just me, but I'm really not critical of other people's projects (I tend to just take everything as "oh, it's their style" or "oh, it's the story they want to tell" and maybe it's just not my personal taste) unless they specifically say "Is this okay?" That said, when I like something I'll still try to break it down and at least figure out"oh, I like this because the characters are interesting". Come to think of it, it probably is possible to get myself to break it down further into "but why do I think these characters are interesting? What makes them stand out?"--I guess that goes back to being interested and motivated enough to really force yourself to think critically about why you like or dislike things. We can probably, as a community, push ourselves to do that just a little bit more. Also, as developers, I think it would be a huge help to really think about why you're bothering to share your WIP and exactly what feedback you're looking for, and then prompt folks to give feedback on those specific things. It's a lot easier to answer "Does this background look weird? Does this part of the plot make sense? Which coloring scheme looks better, this one or that one?" etc than just "Give any feedback you have!"

Actually, what I said above about not knowing where to start applies just to the content of WIP threads, not to WIPs with demos. It's definitely easier to give specific feedback on what works and what doesn't in a demo, but it often takes me a very long time to get around to playing a demo even when I'm curious, and I don't want to say anything until I play the demo and have something more useful to say. But then I don't get around to playing the demo and I forget about it and I never say anything.

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Oh I'm sure my opinion still counts and whatnot, I just feel like I might come off as preachy or something. XD It's more of a personal thing... I don't want someone to say "What do YOU know about making VNs, anyway?!"

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why I don't comment on WIP threads: cause I suck at distinguishing the people who don't want critique, so I figure it's better to wait until I see how much work was put into the whole game. If someone doesn't finish their work, they're probably better off not hearing my opinions.

about the one-line comments, I think I agree with the opinion posted back when azurextwilight's works were released, that the brief encouraging comments needed to be posted only after looking at how many have already been posted. I don't think it's good for anything if the vast majority of comments are just telling someone they're stuff is cool.

Oh those silly people, but I understand it now. It's true people respond like that sometimes too ^^;.

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Nanolife | Dev Blog | Pegasi's website | Twitter

I also think we need to look at this from a different perspective. Instead of thinking about what others should do, maybe everyone should also consider what they can do with their own threads. Let's face it, we can't control the actions of others, but we can certainly do something about our own. We can all aim to be more active with each others threads, but we can also do more on our own turf. And frankly I think it would be beneficial if everyone stopped blaming people for being interested in what they are interest in. Blaming people for liking art or girls for liking otome is a bit of a pointless exercise.

The main thing people can do is post interesting content, give people something to be interested in and comment on. People are not magically going to be interested if the concept is predominately in your head. Talk about things, show things. Show snippets of writing and quick sketches. It is most likely going to be a while before your game is finished so paint everyone a picture in the meantime. Describe the world and characters, introduce your thoughts on process. Interest and recognition are rewards for hard work, not something that people owe you.

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I don't comment because I'm Russian and my English is not good enough - it's kinda hard to translate all my Russian thoughts to English words so I prefer to just post "I like it!" or post nothing

Also I didn't make any VN since I've joined. So it's like I don't have any rights to critique... Well, everyone have that right, but I feel uncomfortable.

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