Rating System

[PyTom]

So, I was reading that yet another lawmaker was proposing a law regulating video games. And while I don't think that the force of law is necessary, I do think that we should come up with a more coherent rating system. (Right now, the RAA's rating system isn't particularly systematic.)

Tokyopop has developed a rating system for their manga, which seems like a reasonable starting point:

http://www.tokyopop.com/news/rating_flyer.pdf

I think it's halfway reasonable, save for the way it handles fanservice... I probably wouldn't penalize fanservice, like Tokyopop seems to. (For example, I would treat nonexplicit nudity in a transformation scene as 13+ nonexplicit nudity, and not 16+ moderate fanservice.)

More controversially, I would also suggest the following rule for 18+ (adult) games: The game should warn people about it's adult nature, and offer them a way to quit, before showing any adult material on the screen. This could mean showing a warning logo on a non-adult title screen, or showing a warning screen that requires the user to click through, and tells them how to exit the game.

Thoughts?

[Enerccio]

More controversially, I would also suggest the following rule for 18+ (adult) games: The game should warn people about it's adult nature, and offer them a way to quit, before showing any adult material on the screen. This could mean showing a warning logo on a non-adult title screen, or showing a warning screen that requires the user to click through, and tells them how to exit the game.

Hmm... Why?
I mean, those who download it/get it already know about content.

I would prefer to use installer, where it will be written like this game contains nudity or something.

[PyTom]

Why? The case where someone other then the downloader/installer is using the computer, and winds up running the program.

[DaFool]

I actually took notes during very long ago anytime there was a code posted...

Code: Select all

init: 
    python hide: 
        censor_pref = _Preference('Mature Content', 'censored', [ 
            (u'Uncensored', False, None), 
            (u'Censored', True, None), 
            ], base=persistent) 

        library.preferences['prefs_right'].append(censor_pref) 

label start: 

    scene black 

    if persistent.censored is None: 

        menu: 
            "Would you like to see mature content?" 
            "Yes": 
                $ persistent.censored = False 
            "No": 
                $ persistent.censored = True 

        "You may change your choice in the Preferences menu." 

label real_start: 

    # ... 

One then uses the persistent.censored variable in conditions, like:

Code: Select all

if not persistent.censored: 
    "Let's hentai hentai!" 
else: 
    "Let's not."  

I would also add a warning splashscreen which you have to click to continue at the beginning of the game. Would you still suggest linking directly to an exit option?

This discussion actually inspires me to just go full ahead with the eroge idea, with the option to toggle scenes off.

[F.I.A]

Hmm... Why?
I mean, those who download it/get it already know about content.

I would prefer to use installer, where it will be written like this game contains nudity or something.

Uh no. Actually, there are cases of ignorant downloading a game and then cry bloody murder when their favourite characters are engaged in way they will only see in doujin. For example, a fan who downloaded and played Shuffle! right after he watched the anime.

You know. Some kids must think that 18-kin label means to be 18 endings...

As DaFool pointed, a sort of filter can be used pregame. At least I implemented such feature in this little project of mine.

[absinthe]

I like the idea of a formal content rating system, although I have some reservations about how easy it'd be to implement and maintain. (And it wouldn't even occur to me to put together a game containing explicit adult content without a suitable pre-game warning and acceptance screen. It's only polite!)

Okay, just looked over the flyer... while that is NOT how I define "moderate violence" (yikes!), the general gist of the chart seems as good as any system to me.

Oh, and I agree about the fanservice category; it seems the main defining line for it is 'one of the already listed acts, only gratuitously'. I wouldn't think that would need its own category, given that "gratuitously", while sometimes fairly easy to spot, is often in the eye of the beholder.

ETA:

More controversially, I would also suggest the following rule for 18+ (adult) games: The game should warn people about it's adult nature, and offer them a way to quit, before showing any adult material on the screen. This could mean showing a warning logo on a non-adult title screen, or showing a warning screen that requires the user to click through, and tells them how to exit the game.

This sounds entirely reasonable to me.

I've been told that it's depressingly common for people to try to return anime DVDs they've purchased because "my kids watched this and, gasp, there was sex and violence! Even though it's a cartoon! Of course I didn't read the back or watch it first, it's a cartoon!"

I'm not going to babysit anyone else's kids (at least not for free, geez), but a warning protects everyone involved.

[DrakeNavarone]

I like the Tokyopop rating system. It's definitely something we can work off of. That second page is really useful, where they break down the ratings by content. It can certainly help those who might find it tough to judge just what rating their game deserves. But that lead me thinking, should we also have to list the content in question? After all, some people view certain elements in different lights. Someone might be real squeamish about sex, but have no trouble stomaching excessive violence, but just throwing on a rating label doesn't distinguish between the two.

I also like the idea that adult games should include a warning label. It's a really smart move, and there are a number of Japanese games that include such warnings in game too. It's great timing to discuss this as well, since a number of more mature works are in development at the moment.

(For example, I would treat nonexplicit nudity in a transformation scene as 13+ nonexplicit nudity, and not 16+ moderate fanservice.)

Ah, good to know, for future reference. (Already have big plans for after EV)

[PyTom]

Okay, just looked over the flyer... while that is NOT how I define "moderate violence" (yikes!), the general gist of the chart seems as good as any system to me.

Note that "moderate violence" refers to "a singular act". So you could have a murder at the start of a mystery, or have someone get shot at the end, but you couldn't have constant bloody gun battles.

I would also add a warning splashscreen which you have to click to continue at the beginning of the game. Would you still suggest linking directly to an exit option?

I think the key is that the user needs to be able to exit before the hentai. The main menu of the game should be fine for this, provided the main menu itself is not 18+ in nature.

[Enerccio]

Hmm, but this will annoy player who want to see content me thinks (even if they are under 18 )
Its the same as with peachprincess.com - first you must write your birth date.. but the one who is looking there and he is not 18 he just write some random date... so it is useless...

This picture from uncyclopedia reminds me of this:


^_~

[mikey]

but the one who is looking there and he is not 18 he just write some random date... so it is useless...

The point of the proposed warning screen isn't only to keep children away (it's not really effective anyway, as you pointed out) - but it's also to give those people a chance, that don't want to see such things - I can be an adult and not really like nudity in games - for personal, religious or other reasons.

But generally, I don't really like warning screens and such. Definitely not in the game, and I don't like them in installers either. My approach is to inform (not warn) what content can be present - in a readme perhaps, or on the site.

But this is my personal approach - for the purposes of the RAA, it probably makes sense to have an age rating (which isn't just limited to considering sex, but also violence and similar).

[monele]

Well something should be made clear : what's the purpose of this ?

- Prevent children to reach unappropriate content ?
- Prevent random access by anyone to content they might not like ?

(I wonder how often the second one happens ô_o...)

[Enerccio]

But generally, I don't really like warning screens and such. Definitely not in the game, and I don't like them in installers either.

Yeah. It is just annoying...

[Jake]

but the one who is looking there and he is not 18 he just write some random date... so it is useless...

The point of the proposed warning screen isn't only to keep children away (it's not really effective anyway, as you pointed out) - but it's also to give those people a chance, that don't want to see such things

...and also, depending on your perspective, to remove deniability. If you're fifteen and you start a 'game' called All-Girl Maid-on-Maid Action and your parent walks in just as you're getting to the steamy bit, you could complain "I thought it would be a 2d fighter, like Streetfighter, only with maids!". If the game opened with a note that it was an eighteen-plus title with graphic sex scenes, then sure, it still probably wouldn't stop most fifteen-year-old boys, but they'd not be able to feign ignorance.

Whether or not this is a good scenario to promote is another discussion, but it's another reason people who want rating systems like them.


Myself, I think I'm in favour of the info-box style of ratings; "This title is recommended for ages 15+; Contains drug references, some violence, some sex." I don't really see the harm in showing such things on the boot of a game - if people want to ignore them they can ignore them, but for anyone who would find the information useful, it's easiest to find it when it's given to you. Why on earth is it considered annoying?

(And really, I don't see any fundamental difference between showing such an infobox rating and showing a "made with Ren'Py" logo at the beginning of your game. Both seek to impart knowledge to the user that they probably didn't think they needed to know, and could trivially have found out on their own if they'd gone to look for it.)

Prevent random access by anyone to content they might not like ?

Remember, it's not just sex - maybe some people don't like graphic violence, some people don't like creepy stuff... could you have predicted from the title or the intro of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni that it'd be a spooky horror series, rather than the off-kilter harem show it looked like at first glance? There are bloody, gratuitously violent stories that start out looking like sappy romances, but you can bet that sappy-romance fans would prefer not to spend an hour of their life getting into a story that they quit half-way through because they don't like to see people's arms being torn off...

[Enerccio]

And people who rate things are stupid too.
Look at: http://www.rightstuf.com/1-800-338-6827 ... 3884/4/0/0

They rated it 13+ only because it is anime! Because it is cartoon! If it was a normal movie, 17+ for sure... but since it is a cartoon, who cares. Cartoons are for kids, right?

Oh, btw, you can predict that Higurashi will be horror from intro ^^

If you're fifteen and you start a 'game' called All-Girl Maid-on-Maid Action and your parent walks in just as you're getting to the steamy bit, you could complain "I thought it would be a 2d fighter, like Streetfighter, only with maids!".

My reply to him would be "Yeah, and I am Santa Claus."

[Jake]

people who rate things are stupid too.
Look at: http://www.rightstuf.com/1-800-338-6827 ... 3884/4/0/0

Yeah, that's pretty stupid - but that doesn't mean all people who rate things are stupid, it just means that the people who were responsible for that getting rated so low are stupid.

Generally, when states mandate ratings (in the UK we have the BBFC, a rating from which is required if you want to sell video in the country, for example) they typically have a set of rules as to what gets what rating. Mention of cocaine gets a title a 15 certificate; use of heroin gets an 18; non-explicit sex gets a 15, implication of sex gets a 12 and so on. When it comes to violence, they generally try and avoid rating saturday morning cartoons as 18+ just because one giant robot shoots the other giant robot's arms off, so they have this description of 'unrealistic violence' which doesn't merit such a bad rating as 'realistic violence'. The violence in Higurashi is about as 'realistic' as the violence in The Mask, and giving that an 18 would be pretty silly too.

That said, does the US have a state-mandated ratings system? I thought it was voluntary over there, some loophole about certification somehow being an intrusion upon freedom of speech? If that was the case then the stupidity there is all Geneon's - not only for rating it so low, but also for giving it a cover design that totally misrepresents it.

Anyway, that's surely what a discussion is needed for? So we could sidestep stupidity like that?

Oh, btw, you can predict that Higurashi will be horror from intro ^^

I disagree. You can predict that Higurashi will have some violence in it from the intro, but there's not really any hint of the atmosphere it carries, which to my mind is far more powerful than the violence itself.

My reply to him would be "Yeah, and I am Santa Claus."

Yeah, but it was an extreme example; there's plenty of 18+ titles which don't have such obvious names... Just looking quickly down JList's selection, Critical Point or The Sagara Family could easily be non-sexual titles; even Bible Black, sans-infamy, could be a simple supernatural adventure game just from the title. From what I recall of True Love, it gave no hints that there was adult content in the game until you actually came across it...