Free software visual novels

[erlehmann]

For some time, I have been looking for visual novels that I could package for Debian GNU/Linux. A prerequisite for that is that they are free software – meaning users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. I know only one newer visual novel that is actually free software (“Bernd und das Rätsel um Unteralterbach”) – many other popular VNs do not have free licensing. Examples of popular, but non-free games are “Digital: A Love Story” (contains music licensed under CC BY-NC-SA) and “Sunrider” (switched from GPL to CC BY-NC-SA).

I know that many game developers fear that releasing the source code under a free software license means giving up artistic control. The developers of Dwarf Fortress do not release their code partly because of this. Having worked with two teams of visual novel authors, I can assure you that this is not the case. Releasing source code under a free software license means giving up technical control. This leads to people porting the game to new platforms or enhance its usability, e.g. by translating in-game dialogue (usually with the assent of the original author). An added benefit is that the game will never bit-rot as long as it has fans, since an old version of the source code can easily be made to work with a new version of Ren'Py by anyone interested.

VN creators, please think about if you want to license your games (code and assets) under a free software license. Please post links to your games' source code in the comments if you have made a free software VN.

[Samu-kun]

This is nothing to do with the source code. That's available here. https://github.com/vaendryl/Sunrider

It would likely cost a few thousands of dollars to purchase a better license for the music, so that's the reason for the license.

[Taleweaver]

Um, the CC BY-NC-SA license simply means you may edit, redistribute or build upon something as long as
a) you credit the original creator
b) you distribute it non-commercially
c) you publish your derived works under the same license.

So if you want to package "Digital" or "Sunrider" for Debian GNU/Linux, what's keeping you from doing it under these terms?

[erlehmann]

Samu-kun, thanks for your answer. Does that mean the developers licensed all Sunrider assets CC BY-NC-SA because the music is CC BY-NC-SA?

I do not believe that the share-alike scope of viral licensing of assets necessarily extends to the game code – unless the game code is an adaption of the music (i.e. synchronized to the music). But I could be wrong here – Christine Love also told me that music was her reason for CC BY-NC-SA licensing. I will probably ask around for legal opinions on that matter.

Taleweaver, CC BY-NC-SA is a non-free license and shuts out lots of beneficial use – including such content in Debian would make it impossible, for example, to sell Debian DVDs which contain many packages (I even bought a Debian DVD once so i did not have to download lots of stuff). See http://freedomdefined.org/Licenses/NC for a detailed explanation of major problems with NC licensing.

[ArachneJericho]

You'd be surprised how viral licensing is.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2317 ... rcial-game

You can, of course, quibble with this and see about convincing a game developer to violate the license to set precedent, since the CC licenses are as of yet mostly untested in court, but tens of thousands of dollars plus being dragged through court is not something I would really wish upon even my worst enemies.

[Samu-kun]

So long as the code runs the same time as the music, the code must be licensed under the same license as the music because the music has share-alike as one of its terms. So yeah, we don't have much choice in the Sunrider license because the music is CC BY-NC-SA.

The license restricts some uses, but money runs everything nowadays. =w=

[Taleweaver]

So long as the code runs the same time as the music, the code must be licensed under the same license as the music because the music has share-alike as one of its terms. So yeah, we don't have much choice in the Sunrider license because the music is CC BY-NC-SA.

The license restricts some uses, but money runs everything nowadays. =w=

Same with most of the stuff I wrote - and frankly, a lot of the arguments in the link you posted sound like a nice rephrasing of the words "but no one can make money with it now, and that's not what free content should be!"

Really, I'm not comfortable with the idea that I, as the creator, should give something away freely so that other people can sell it as a part of a larger bundle.

[erlehmann]

Samu-kun, I have asked on the debian-legal mailing list for clarification regarding ShareAlike license scope. One answer in particular pointed out that some popular games (like Supertuxcart and Warsow) do use music licensed under Creative Commons ShareAlike, but contain code licensed under the General Public License – which happen to be two incompatible Copyleft licenses. As far as I know, the developers never got in trouble for that. <https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2 ... 00015.html>

Btw, the donation page for Sunrider <http://sunrider-vn.com/main/donate/> says “Sunrider is a 100% free game which is open source, DRM-free, and free to modify and use for all personal and non-commercial purposes.”. This is confusing, since “open source” includes that something can be used for commercial purposes – see point 6 of the Open Source Definition <http://opensource.org/docs/osd#fields-of-endeavor>. Note that “open source” is an invented term and has been standing for “software that complies with the points of the Open Source Definition” since its introduction in 1998 <http://opensource.org/history>.

I would therefore ask the Sunrider developers to consider either changing to some free license for their (and only their) content – maybe dual licensing it under CC-BY-SA and GPLv2 or any later version – or stop describing Sunrider as an “open source” project.

[Suika]

If the issue you're having is with the non-commercial aspect, why not try contacting the copyright holders and asking for a license specific to your project? Some creators will be willing to cooperate with that, especially if you offer a share of your profits, and are willing to give into their terms as well. Granted, there may be several parties to contact, but it might be worth considering.

I agree with Taleweaver here:

Really, I'm not comfortable with the idea that I, as the creator, should give something away freely so that other people can sell it as a part of a larger bundle.

but I think the situation changes if you are:
1) contributing to help free software spread
OR 2) making relevant contributions, and sharing profits with the original creators

[erlehmann]

Taleweaver, Suika, usually, copyleft (what Creative Commons calls ShareAlike) suffices to prevent exploitation by others. Wikipedia can be considered a prime example of this effect. Regarding games, Bernd und das Rätsel um Unteralterbach is GPL licensed – and despite the game receiving lots of praise for its content quality – art, writing and music – I have yet to see any attempt to sell said content as it is freely available on the web site.

[trooper6]

So erlehmann, what exactly do you want?

Do you want to be able to sell these products, as part of a bundle or otherwise, without paying the creators? Are you upset because you are being blocked from exploiting the work? Do you want to take the art of Bernt and use it for your own commercial game without paying anything for it?

Do you actually want to do something commercial with other people's work or is this all theoretical for you?

[Samu-kun]

Samu-kun, I have asked on the debian-legal mailing list for clarification regarding ShareAlike license scope. One answer in particular pointed out that some popular games (like Supertuxcart and Warsow) do use music licensed under Creative Commons ShareAlike, but contain code licensed under the General Public License – which happen to be two incompatible Copyleft licenses. As far as I know, the developers never got in trouble for that. <https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2 ... 00015.html>

Btw, the donation page for Sunrider <http://sunrider-vn.com/main/donate/> says “Sunrider is a 100% free game which is open source, DRM-free, and free to modify and use for all personal and non-commercial purposes.”. This is confusing, since “open source” includes that something can be used for commercial purposes – see point 6 of the Open Source Definition <http://opensource.org/docs/osd#fields-of-endeavor>. Note that “open source” is an invented term and has been standing for “software that complies with the points of the Open Source Definition” since its introduction in 1998 <http://opensource.org/history>.

I would therefore ask the Sunrider developers to consider either changing to some free license for their (and only their) content – maybe dual licensing it under CC-BY-SA and GPLv2 or any later version – or stop describing Sunrider as an “open source” project.

This isn't possible under the CC licensing scheme. We'd get sued lol.

[erlehmann]

trooper6, I want to package high quality games for Debian GNU/Linux. NC licensing blocks that. Third parties do indeed sell Debian on CD or DVD <https://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/>. Years ago, I bought a Debian CD for a few euros, because I did not have a broadband internet connection.

I believe that no one is currently selling stuff related to Bernd und das Rätsel um Unteralterbach or making another game with the assets, which rather proves my point that licensing content freely usually does not lead to exploitation – even if the content has a very high quality. OTOH, those people who copy art assets without proper licensing are probably not going to care about licensing and will do that anyway.

[ArachneJericho]

OTOH, those people who copy art assets without proper licensing are probably not going to care about licensing and will do that anyway.

Yeah, which means the visual novel developers get sued if we make it "easy", depending on what our licenses for those assets are.

That's why I can't release Kaguya Hime on a web platform; the royalty-free licenses for the backgrounds and the music require me to make it difficult for the average user to extract the assets. Saying, "But people will get it anyways" doesn't really move the hearts of lawyers.

[trooper6]

trooper6, I want to package high quality games for Debian GNU/Linux. NC licensing blocks that. Third parties do indeed sell Debian on CD or DVD <https://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/>. Years ago, I bought a Debian CD for a few euros, because I did not have a broadband internet connection.

So you want to sell collections of other people's games, and you want to make money doing so. But you don't want to pay them anything? Why would they want you to do that?

Couldn't you perhaps contact them and ask permission to sell their games and perhaps give them a cut of the profits you are making off of their work? Or couldn't you also give way these Linux DVDs for free?