Lemma Soft Forums

Hello,
So I've done a bit of research and I've found out that it is apparently not legal to directly quote several lines of a copyrighted song, especially not when these lines include the song title, unless it is 'Fair Use', but as already concluded in other threads regarding Copyright, Visual Novels do not fall into the category of Fair Use.
However, what if I let one of the characters sing a few lines of a song with slight alterations in each sentence, such as changing 'me' to 'her'?
So for example if I have a character sing:
"Hey, I've just met you,
and that is crazy,
but there's my number,
and call me, maybe? "
Would that still be considered Copyright infringement?
And additionally, would it perhaps be considered as some kind of 'bad context' if another character told the singer something along the lines of: "Your singing is awful", as that doesn't insult the song directly but rather puts it in a not exactly positive context?

Sorry if these questions are kind of dumb or have been answered before (I've searched already, I swear!) or if it didn't make any sense,
but copyright is just so confusing ._.

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http://fadelalique.deviantart.com/

CAVEAT: not legal advice

When you're making tiny changes to the point that you hope the player won't even notice, you're clearly still trying to quote the copyrighted lyrics. Tiny little changes like that are what you'd see in (properly licensed) cover versions.

A parody has to be obviously a parody (and even then they still often get sued and it gets complicated)

_________________
Hanako Games

Not to mention, copyright law varies by country. Even "fair use" is subject to court interpretation. You're better off just avoiding the issue altogether.

What? Where did you read that?

I'd suggest reading up some more on fair use, or if you're not in the states fair dealings, wikipedia has a decent page on the subject

also a neat little video about pop music being used in video games

http://youtu.be/TrbBydaKG1k

Wahaha, better to be safe than to be sorry. I could always use alternative phrases and words around, why bother with the song lyrics?

(But I think so long as it's not something offensive to both the singer, the company or the song itself, you can use it--- or parodied it!)
i.e. "I've kissed a girl and I liked it!---not. I'm not into girl to girl relationship but I'm cool about them. Just can't imagine doing it myself. However, I enjoy watching those kind of anime series and I liked it! : )

I'm not into gxg, I just used it as an example : )

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devART| |One Moment in Summer GxB/Supernatural/Mystery| |Orange° Blog

NOT LEGAL ADVICE:

It's not that visual novels can't fall into the category of fair use, it's that they usually won't count as fair use.

One thing that fair use does is to consider the nature of how something is used. So say the original purpose of music is to entertain, and you make a visual novel to entertain. That's not transformative, and hence you'll be in trouble. On the other hand, say the purpose of your VN is to educate - Visual Nonfiction, to coin a phrase. And say the music is so tied to what you're teaching that you _have_ to use it - for some reason, the music can't be replaced by an original composition. Then, in that case, you might have a case that what you're doing is fair use.

You'd also have to satisfy some of the other categories - but you do, since it's a short excerpt, and isn't really a substitute for the original.

Note that fair use is a defense - you have to prove it, rather than the other guy having to prove that something is not fair use.


NOT LEGAL ADVICE, AND MAYBE NOT EVEN GOOD ADVICE:

The copyright laws are way behind the times. We live in a world where people upload what they want all over the web, where fanfiction sites are huge, and so on. Few-to-no copyright holders are going to sue you out of the blue. They'll write a demand letter to you first - if they can even be bothered. (I can't guarantee this - but it's much cheaper than them bringing you to court.) They'll ask you (or me, if the file is hosted here) to take the copyrighted material down. (If they ask me, I'll cave like a karst formation.)

It's up to you to decide what your tolerance for risk is.

FOR MORE INFO:

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_a ... index.html

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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face in marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming" - Theodore Roosevelt

That's the big one, and the thing most people seem to forget when they yell "Fair use!" The copyright holder can STILL sue you, and you'd have to prove to a court of law that your use of the copyrighted material does indeed fall under the fair use exemption of copyright law. It isn't a protection from being sued. In fact, some companies and individuals have sued others over copyright use even where fair use or parody obviously apply, because they know the defendant in question can't afford the legal fees to prove their case, and so will fold and stop use of the copyright material.

NOT LEGAL ADVICE:
It really depends on how important the song lyrics are in your work and how much of them you use. As an example, if you had a character training and they snarked, "I've got the eye of the tiger, man!" it would likely fall under fair use. It is simply a reference, like a character ordering a Coke. If you named your story of a character training "Eye of the Tiger", you might be in hot water, because you've suddenly made that song lyric reference very important to your story. Likewise if you gave a sports or training themed character an "Eye of the Tiger" named power, you'd be making the song reference too important.

Passing reference is generally fine. If it is something a normal person would say or mention in that situation (and it isn't negative) you'll usually be okay. Again, having a character order a Coke is O.K., having a character get powers by drinking Coke is not.

NOT LEGAL ADVICE:

Your best bet is to look up Your local Music legal services as well as check to see if they are complaint with the US/International Music Laws.

If it comes down to it Contact the owner of the song you want to use and ask them.

**VERY NOT LEGAL ADVICE:
OR you can find a fan rendition of the song and ask them. though it can lead to legal issues if it is too similar to the song.

_________________
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Learn to break a bone to break a bone,
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I don't think there is any format that inherently "doesn't fall into the category of Fair Use." Fair use is about the nature of the content and how it's used -- how much you used, what purpose you used it for (education/parody/commercial), the effect on the copyrighted work's value, etc. If you, for example, wrote a VN that educated a class, that might include content that falls under Fair Use. I say "might" because Fair Use only applies when you get to court and has to be decided on a case-by-case basis.

Practically speaking, unless your VN gets a lot of attention it's very unlikely it would come to the attention of the copyright owner. Supposing it did, a cease-and-desist letter would probably be their preferred course of action, because it costs them next to nothing (ie. 5 seconds of their lawyers' time) and a lot of people comply. Their next preferred action would be out-of-court settlements; much more costly than letters, but less costly than court. Note that Fair Use only factors into this if they actually do decide to take you to court and prosecute you for copyright infringement. At that point, you can use Fair Use as a defense and need to prove your use is fair.

In any case, I don't think your use would fall under "Fair Use."

As far as saying something negative about the song, I don't think there's any concern unless they take you to court over the quotation of lyrics and went on to show that in the context of your work, the quote (somehow) lowered the value of the song.

The real question is:


Quoting the song verbatim is infringement. With the lyrics slightly changed... I don't know the answer; it might depend on how much is changed, how recognizable it is, etc. If it's worth it to you, then consult a lawyer for advice (I am NOT a lawyer). Whether it "is" or not, nothing stops them from sending a cease-and-desist letter, or even going straight to court. (They're not going to go straight to court. But they could.)

Another option is to try to actually get permission to use a lyrical excerpt from the song. Find out who the copyright holder/publisher is and contact them. I know it's probably not worth it, because they would probably would want some money for it.



From what I've heard, copyright law is very complicated. So there is nothing to feel bad about.

With all of that being said......
If it's really not important to your story, I'd recommend writing you own lyrics. Song lyric quotes may not have much meaning to those who haven't heard the song. It could be a fictional pop song with lines that may actually have some specific relevance to your story (foreshadowing, mood, etc).

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Works in Progress:
Vignettes (when I'm tired of working on A Turbulent Age)
A Turbulent Age (when I'm tired of working on Vignettes)

NOT LEGAL ADVICE:

From what I believe I remember from listening to an agent. If you quote lyrics from a song, it is copyright infringement if the exact song can be picked out or something along those lines. So only changing a word or two can still get you in a world of trouble. Quoting song lyrics is not a wise action to take she told us and said to stay away from them in writing.

This is the reason most stuff only mentions what the music's genre is or feeling, rather than exact lyrics or name.

As others have said I'd recommend not using an actual song, to avoid all the legal issues.

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http://blackwitchproject.vnovel.com/


Check out Team Anarky's; End of Dreams


Writing Workshop Planning thread: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=18543

E.K. Weaver has to do this for her graphic novels, "The Less Than Epic Adventures of TJ & Amal." (An excellent webcomic, btw.)

Here's her post about obtaining rights to song lyrics (at least for her books and webcomics):

http://bigbigtruck.tumblr.com/post/2748 ... -info-post

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Alright, thanks everyone for your input :3 I appreciate it!
I think I get some of how it works now. And, uh, I think I can safely say that my VN wouldn't count as 'Fair Use', so I guess I'll just have to cut/change these parts. (that means no lame song reference jokes on my part. Pity )
Anyways, thank you very much! It helped a lot!

_________________
http://fadelalique.deviantart.com/

What if we change the lyrics to different words but with sort of the same meanings? For example, first two lines are roughly the same meanings as the original:

"Pip pip, I have just glanced at your visage,
this is preposterous,
but here's my telegraph key,
So Morse code me, perhaps?"

But would the last two lines make it fall under parody? Weird Al seems to get away with it, though his songs are clearly under parody and the meanings are different.

That sort of thing certainly IS done as a parody, but as mentioned, that kind of thing can still be sued if the copyright holder is annoyed at you, it just means that you have a chance of winning in the end (if you can manage to fight at all). Supposedly the Space Quest series was always getting angry letters from lawyers even though all their references were very obviously jokes.

To me, the key difference is that you couldn't use your 'pip pip' as if it the characters were actually singing the real song. It's very clearly and visibly different. Characters in-setting shouldn't react to it as if it were the real song. On those grounds, therefore, I would feel like it was probably okay. At the very worst I would expect any angry letter to be a C&D rather than a "you owe me $5K for unauthorised lyrics"

But nobody here has a firm grounding in the legal nonsense involved afaik.

_________________
Hanako Games

TERRIBLE ADVICE:

Use a pseudonym, use a proxy, do what you like.

BETTER ADVICE:

If your story doesn't absolutely need it, it's safer to just stay away from references like that.

_________________
"Why would you even need so many characters?!!"
~Me. Just now. At you.
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