Good Endings, Bad Endings, True Endings, False Endings

[trooper6]

Hey all.

I hear people throw around terms like Good Endings, Bad Endings, True Endings, and False Endings...and I'm not really about them. And I don't think I like the mindset that is behind them.

I don't really like the feeling that the creator has a "True Good" ending that I'm supposed to figure out how to get there and everything else is a "Bad" ending meant to point out that I messed up...now go back and play again until you get what I want you to get. That feels like what we would call in the table top role playing world a) railroading and b) antagonistic GM-Player relations. And it doesn't sit well with me.

If I play a game and get the ending that I earned through my choices, I don't want the creator to tell me that my ending was the "true" ending. It was the ending that was true to my experience of the game. Luckily most of the games I've played have not had this True ending/False ending thing going on. I don't think I would feel comfortable creating a VN where I thought. "Okay, I want them to go and date Robin...so that will be the True ending...and I'll basically punish them for doing other things."

And as for "bad" endings. This is again colored by my experience as a GM. Sometimes when I've ran games, the players failed to stop the big bad...or they joined the big bad! Or they all died in a battle. I don't think of those as bad endings. I think of those as things that happened...and then we figure out what happens next. But it is okay, because it was honest and some stories are tragedies...we enjoyed the journey. (Now I have an idea for a VN...)

Luckily, most of the VNs or RPGs I've played have treated the different variations with equal care and equal weight of reality.

But am I the only one who is like this?

[OokamiKasumi]

I hear people throw around terms like Good Endings, Bad Endings, True Endings, and False Endings...and I'm not really about them. And I don't think I like the mindset that is behind them. ... But am I the only one who is like this?

You are not alone at all.

I don't like this mindset either. I suspect that it comes from the point of view of some that believe that VNs are merely "Games with Story Elements."
-- Since Games are supposed to have Winners and Losers, this encourages "game" creators to make Winning endings and Losing endings.

On the other hand, those of us who actually write Stories, tend to see VNs as "Stories with Game Elements."
-- Because Stories come in Comedic endings, Dramatic endings, and Tragic endings --not winners or losers-- "Story" creators tend to make EACH ending True for the version of the Story created by the players' selections. This is the mindset of the original "Choose Your Own Adventure" games because the first ones were created by authors of Fantasy fiction -- story writers, not game makers.

This is NOT meant to invalidate "Games with Story Elements," merely explain the mindset.

[Greeny]

Totally agree 100%.

One big problem with the mindset is that it subtly leads to the notion that "good" endings are a requirement. "You can't have a tragic ending be the True Ending! Obviously that's only for when players don't manage to get the Good End."

[Didules]

About bad endings and good endings, err, I kinda like brutal bad endings that either makes really sense (like "you choose kill this person, you end up in jail, the end" with more developpent of course) or that are just total nonsense (because it can be funny (not if I'm really into the game though!)) I think that bad endings are plainly what happens. To take a previous example: "they died in a battle", okay, they did, does it make the ending bad? Not really. BTW I really like tragedies! They have a something special, like bittersweet endings, that you cannot feel in good endings!
To me there aren't "good" or "bad" endings, there are just several endings that leads to a happy ever after -or not- following a different path of events. Naming them bad lr good ending won't change a thing, so I don't care at all. At least, they have to be well written and not just simply "you did a bad choice, they died, bye bye". If a good ending has 1k words for instance, then the bad ending should get 1k words. I can't stand botched endings.
So you are not alone.

About "True" endings, I tend to hate them. Why would one ending be the "true" one and not the others? When I'm satisfied with an ending (for instance a bad one), it's like javing the creator of the game reminding me "that's not the true ending, it just a false ending! It's not what really happens in the end". If I get to choose some part of the stories thanks to menus, then why wouldn't it be also a true ending? That's why I simply hate "teue endings", besides, well, I'm more into tragedies and bittersweet endings than really good ones (which are often the true endings).
So I have to agree with you on these points, though I'm a bit more extreme about true endings ^^;

Also: Thank you, OokamiKasumi, because what you write is right and really interesting

Edit! And I agree with Greeny, but I don't know about the "when players don't manage to get the good ending"...

I'm a bit more curious about what could be the advantages of clearly creating a "true ending"... Does anyone knows?

[Darkmoonfire]

I'm a bit more curious about what could be the advantages of clearly creating a "true ending"... Does anyone knows?

Sequels. It's a lot easier for the writer to pick one ending and go with it then try to make it possible for every ending to be canon. Especially if the main character dies in some endings and not the others.

[Ophelia]

Hmmm. I don't really remember any of the games I played having true and not so true endings, but is this really such a problem? The problem I've started working on will have a so called true ending, but that does not mean that the other endings are something lesser or not as viable. The true ending for me is something that the creator considers - for whatever reasons - to be the canon ending. That doesn't mean the other endings aren't viable or anything.

[OokamiKasumi]

Hmmm. I don't really remember any of the games I played having true and not so true endings, but is this really such a problem?

It's not a problem, it's a Style.
-- However those of us that play VNs specifically for their Stories can feel cheated if the ending we (the individual players) seek to achieve turns out to be short-changed in detail and emotional impact compared to the ending the Creator liked best, and designated as True or Canon.

The problem I've started working on will have a so called true ending, but that does not mean that the other endings are something lesser or not as viable. The true ending for me is something that the creator considers - for whatever reasons - to be the canon ending. That doesn't mean the other endings aren't viable or anything.

I don't see this as being a problem at all -- as long as you detail all the other endings with as much care as your Canon ending.

[gekiganwing]

If your story has quite a few mysteries, you can reveal them one-by-one in each ending. Likewise, you can use multiple endings to reveal multiple facets of your fictional world and its characters.

Something to consider: what if the ending called "good" is actually bad for a non-playable-character, or a large group/nation? This could have interesting implications -- such as the MC learning that despite all his/her abilities, not everyone can be happy, and not everyone can remain alive.

[Aurélie]

It's not a problem, it's a Style.
-- However those of us that play VNs specifically for their Stories can feel cheated if the ending we (the individual players) seek to achieve turns out to be short-changed in detail and emotional impact compared to the ending the Creator liked best, and designated as True or Canon.

This is how I feel also. The only game I can think of where I was completely okay with the idea of a "True Ending" is 999. If you're aware of the entirety of that game, you know what I'm talking about there. I remember playing Always Remember Me the other day and getting the "normal" ending for my guy, which made me go: wait, there's a better ending? But I didn't really want to go back and grind stats, neither did I think my ending was lacking in any way. I think relationship-based VNs should maybe keep away from this style, whereas mystery/story-based ones are way more likely to get away with it. (Relationship-based VNs CAN have multiple kinds of endings with a relationship, and the creator/player could very well think "this is a bit of a Bad Ending", but if it's marked as such it's a bit of a break from immersion in the story.)

[Elmiwisa]

Just as have been said above, they depends on what kind of VN it is. Oogami already talked about it as the difference between a game and a story. But I think the difference is also between what kind of game and what kind of story it is. All of them have several good reasons to be used. I think you dislike them because you assume that all VN is about controlling a character and roleplay them in a world which cause a story to be constructed as they play along. That might be the case for most romance VN and stats-raising sims, but not all VN benefit from that assumption. And back to your example with you playing some roleplaying game, you need to remember that stuff-happening is not the same as story, and VN is more about telling story than about freeform roleplaying. The chronicle of a group of ragtag misfit who attempt to stop lord evil from taking over the world, and failed...because Map Maker Mike forgot to bring a compass, and Clueless Cook Charlie accidentally cook a bunch of poisoned mushroom for the whole party. No, that isn't a story, that's just stuff-happened. In a roleplaying session, if you failed to produce a story, the player still get to roleplay. If a VN failed to tell a story, it better have serious gameplay/roleplay to make up for it, which is contrary to the medium. You might notice the severe lack of choices in a VN, because choices without interesting consequences are left out; for example, while it might seems more realistic to have the main character to always have the choice available to set themselves on fire whenever fire is seen in the background, its lack of interesting consequence means that VN will leave out such choice and force you down a path when self-immolation do not happen.
Here are some good reason for these kind of endings I can think of:

True/False ending:
1. For prequel purpose. Might be not too bad if you're making a sequel since you have the options to look back to old save file, however, at some points the branching structure have to merge for practical reason. In the end, it's just much simpler to declare one the true canon ending rather than bothering with some additional writing and coding work for those extra branches only to merge them eventually.
2. Because there is indeed only 1 canon ending. Every other ending are just what-if scenario. Not much different from how you look back on your past experience and wonder how thing would have turned out differently if you have done a different thing. Except that in a VN, false endings are not a what-if imagined in some character's head, but it totally could have happened and thus can be used to reveal information that the main character could not possibly obtain on the path to the true ending. For example, the main character might be too loyal to betray people and join side with the villain, so that did not happen in the true ending; but the false ending when it does happen can be used to have an authentic look at the villain hidden side. I have played some when in fact, the false (and also worst or at least bad) ending is the one that actually explain the whole story. It's common for the true ending of this type to be locked until the rest of the endings are completed, to ensure the player don't stumble into an incomprehensible story before they learn all the necessary fact to understand it.
3. Just a different way to call a "best ending". Of course, this is only applicable if there is some ending that could be reasonably considered best, so this tend to call for story with game-like structure where the goal is to solve some problems. Since people have different opinion on what is more important factor to what make an ending better, this means that usually this kind of ending have to be good in every aspects. For example, if the story is about choosing between work and family, and there is already an ending for each choice, then the best ending would be the one where the main character get both.

Abrupt ending:
You did not mention this, but it is strongly related to bad ending and false ending, so I think it's worth discussing. In fact, I have a feeling that this is the kind of ending you think of when you talked about false ending or bad ending.
This is the kind of ending that end the story suddenly, usually before the climax, and also, the ending itself is much shorter than the other possibility. For this to be applicable, the narrative must follow a linear story structure (there might be a lot of branches, but no matter how thing flow, events can still be easily sorted in a partial temporal order, with some serve as build up, some serve as climaxes, and so on). The shortness is simply about the level of details of the ending, rather than word counts or whether the plot is resolved or not.
The abruptness of these endings scream "false ending" from square one, and it's probably very hard to make one such ending a true ending without angering the reader, even if it is the best ending (e.g. for example the plot would be resolved within minutes with no casualties if the main character simply do not try to get involved in it). It also tend to overlap a lot with bad ending too. But these can serve some useful purposes:
1. Just a slightly more detailed failure. Basically for VN that is modeled as game. This basically cover briefly what went wrong, quick briefing of the consequences of the ending, and how could thing be improved. Clearly all of these are bad ending, and they also make for the most common form of abrupt ending.
2. As reward for observant/exploring player. These ending will be very hard to get and require a good understanding of the story to make the precise choices that lead to one, and they usually resolve the plot however. Probably the best form of abrupt ending that allow them to be good endings (e.g. perhaps the plot is resolved early enough to avoid the heroic sacrifice in the main plot), they are still nonetheless filled with bad endings (yes, this is the kind of bad ending that you have to try hard to get) and sometimes funny easter egg nonsense ending. The reward varied, from telling noncritical but interesting thing about the plot to extra CGs.
3. To give closure to dangling plot thread. Unlike a traditional story that can afford to leave out any plot thread that is never resolved, a VN's branching structure means that you can totally have foreshadowing that never come to fruition. If the VN is game-like, this possibility is even greater, since you need to give player information in advanced to make their decision an informed one. This also happen in story with strong world-building and pride itself on consistency (hard scifi, mystery), because they tend to give very detailed explanation that ultimately is irrelevant to the main plot. If these plot thread is not good enough to have a fully developed path, and there is no ways to close them in the main storyline, abrupt ending is the way to go. For example, if you heard "It is forbidden to do X" in a traditional story then it's pretty much guaranteed that someone will do X eventually. If you heard that in a game, it probably means that in fact you should actually avoid doing X, and the game is just trying to give you a fair warning before you made the decision, and the question of what happen when X is done will not be resolved in the main plot. Giving an abrupt ending for choosing to do X anyway is a way of basically give closure to that in a way that embrace the show-dont-tell rule much better than traditional story.
4. Unintended consequences. If you have a VN with very complicated choice structure, some times an abrupt ending is just an unintended consequence of not being able to anticipate and account for all possible way the player could make choices, and some time that means a certain choices lead to an abrupt ending. This count as "good reason" because it is just impractical to anticipate for everything, and oversight can easily occur. Unlike other kind of ending which require deliberate effort to create, abrupt endings -due to shortness being one defining trait- can totally result from accident.

Good/Bad endings:
Note that for this part, I exclude abrupt ending. So bad ending here are all fully-developed ending.
1. Just merely names/classification. Some ending are called bad, some are called good, and which one they are is obvious from the content of the ending. Beside merely name, they can be use to classify endings for administrative purpose. Perhaps bad endings do not count toward completion meter, perhaps CG are classify by the kind of ending they are in, perhaps many players do not count bad endings toward ending counts when the VN is advertised, so it is wise to count them separately to avoid accusation.
2. A very directed way to indicate the true nature of the ending, if it does not fit the tone of the story to say outright which one is which in-story. Perhaps the ending is all happy and such, but when the word "Bad end" show up, it prompts player to re-read in between the line. Perhaps the ending when the main character's friends are all dead is actually the best ending possible, and you don't want player to waste time searching for the nonexistence ending where everyone is alive.
3. Performance rating, if the VN is more gamelike in nature.
4. Some time the bad ending is simply tragic because it make more sense given the choice made. The fact that they are fully-developed means that it is not meant as punishment for player's failure. This acknowledge that this is one way the story can go, and in this instance, it ends up being a tragedy.

So, in conclusion, I think your analogy with a gaming session with live GM is flawed. The simple fact that a lot of VN expect player to do multiple playthrough for many different endings give various rationale for these different kind of endings to exist that would not be applicable to a gaming session.

[OokamiKasumi]

With all due respect for Elmiwisa, this is not directed at Elmiwisa's debate, but at some of the points brought up.

True/False ending:
2. Because there is indeed only 1 canon ending.
...I have played some when in fact, the false (and also worst or at least bad) ending is the one that actually explain the whole story. It's common for the true ending of this type to be locked until the rest of the endings are completed...

For the record, I truly Loathe VNs that Lock the "true" ending until you've been forced to replay through each of the other endings.
-- I feel they do this specifically to force the player into wasting their time playing the same game over, and over, and over again, rather than simply, and cleanly, ending it, or extending it legitimately by adding all those missing bits into the actual storyline. Others may adore this sort of game, but I don't --at all-- because this forced replay of the same game feels like cheating to me.

Keep in mind, this is my personal opinion. Your mileage may vary.

Abrupt ending:
3. To give closure to dangling plot thread. Unlike a traditional story that can afford to leave out any plot thread that is never resolved...

Speaking as a professional author of over 30 published titles, Stories; traditional or otherwise, should Never have dangling plot threads. If a thread is introduced, it needs to be resolved by the end of the story, even if that one story takes 12 books to conclude.

Other countries may have other standards of writing, but according to my publishers here in the US, (one of which is Kensington):

Dangling plot threads = Sloppy or Amateur writing.
-- Or a SCAM in progress; one designed to either waste the readers' time, or money.

...The simple fact that a lot of VN expect player to do multiple playthrough for many different endings give various rationale for these different kind of endings to exist that would not be applicable to a gaming session.

The simple fact that so many VNs expect, multiple play-throughs by their players --especially when this is the Only way to discover the whole story-- tells me that these players have been Cheated out of a solid story so many times, they don't even realize that they're being cheated anymore.

Just because cheating techniques are used commonly, even by professionals of the industry, does not make them any less of a Cheat.
-- Just because some of the professionals are forcing their players to jump off a bridge, doesn't mean I have to make my players jump off that bridge too.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

Sequels. It's a lot easier for the writer to pick one ending and go with it then try to make it possible for every ending to be canon. .

This. Interactive fiction has a unique problem when it comes to sequels. Though I think the best way to handle this is to choose the one ending with the most potential consequences as the canon one if I a sequel is being written.

As for labeling endings in a game, I find it annoying and unwanted. Like others have said, I don't want it implied my ending was not "true". It would be like Mass Effect declaring one of the endings to its trilogy as "canon", it would destroy the interactive elements of the story. (It's why I don't care for the Ending Editing DLC they released - it can now never be part of MY true ending to 3 games worth of first time choices...)

As an creator, when I am writing an interactive and branching story with multiple endings ... I definitely have a canon ending in mind. One of the endings in my story is canon to me. If I were suddenly asked to adapt my interactive game story into a movie or novel or comic, that canon ending is the one I'd use. (Okay, probably not. I'm one of THOSE people who would totally change things and write a new ending not present in the interactive version. I couldn't resist.)

That said, I'd never want my players or readers to be able to identify which ending I considered canon. I try and give all endings equal consideration, detail, and weight and have them grow organically out of the choices made by the player. But I'll definitely have my favorite, the one most satisfying to ME. I just do my best to keep it secret.

[Tempus]

I don't see how a "true" ending is needed for a sequel. Just have multiple endings and have the sequel follow what would happened if one of those endings were continued from. One interesting thing would be to have multiple sequels that each cover the same timespan after the first part but follow the consequences of different endings from said first part.

[LVUER]

I don't see how a "true" ending is needed for a sequel. Just have multiple endings and have the sequel follow what would happened if one of those endings were continued from. One interesting thing would be to have multiple sequels that each cover the same timespan after the first part but follow the consequences of different endings from said first part.

Like Mass Effect series?

[Tempus]

I never played Mass Effect so I can't say for certain, but from what I've heard, yes. The problem with ME (again, from what I've heard / seen / read) is the totally shit final ending (after a good game) which railroaded you into three endings which were exactly the same. I did hear people petitioned it or something, but honestly ME seemed kind of... not very interesting to me. So I haven't kept up with that.

But yeah, similar to how the plot in ME would carry over and be affected by the choices you made in the previous game.

If I were going to make a game with choices and sequels, I'd limit it to the two most interesting choices and explore them heavily. Rather than offer a range of shallow choices. I have a limited amount of time to make things, so there's no point throwing in a bunch of choices if they're little more than red herrings or cul-de-sacs which give no deeper insight.