Advice on Writing Narrative in VNs

[OokamiKasumi]

Advice on Writing Narrative in VNs
--RePosted by Request from PyTom & Edited for Adult Content--

I twitch as he slowly moves his hand to my shirt and up it. His fingertips tickle a bit, but I resist to laugh.

-- From a long adult scene posted by pocoscon.

The scene itself was excellent, lots of descriptive details and quite entertaining, however the sentence structure used to write the scene...?
-- There were more than a few examples I could have used from that post, but this one line covers pretty much everything.

Something I only learned after being published:
-- When writing a Story, you're Not supposed to put two people's Actions in the same paragraph, and definitely not in the same sentence, for exactly the same reason you don't put two people's Dialogue in the same paragraph.

Why not?
-- Everybody knows that when a new speaker speaks they get a new paragraph, right? In other words, you DON'T put two different people talking in the same paragraph. Anyone who has written any kind of fiction learns this pretty darned quick, (usually from their readers.) When writing for a VN you're kind of forced to do this because each character's dialogue is separated by their individual text boxes.

What nobody seems to get is that the same goes for a new character's ACTIONS. Seriously, when a new character ACTS they're supposed to get their own paragraph -- even if they don't speak!

You paragraph by Change of CHARACTER -- not because they speak, but because they ACT. What many people seem to forget is that Dialogue is an ACTION. In other words, the reason you don't put two different characters' Dialogue in the same paragraph is BECAUSE you're not supposed to mix two characters' Actions.

"Wait a minute, doesn't that cut everything into tiny bits, you know, when you cut all the dialogue away then divide up all those paragraphs?"

In normal fiction, Character A's dialogue is supposed to be in Character A's paragraph of actions. Character B gets his own paragraph of dialogue AND actions. You divide up a story's paragraphs by individual Character -- not by individual lines of Dialogue OR Actions.

VN fiction is a little trickier.
-- In VN fiction, you could add the descriptive parts (the narrative) to the dialogue in the same box using Quotation Marks to separate the dialogue from the narrative, (just like in a real book!) However, most don't bother with description at all because description is normally handled by using Images -- not words. Instead, narrative text ends up in its own textbox, completely separate from the dialogue. This works just fine in most cases.

However, sometimes one doesn't have the right images for a needed scene, or the image is a CG -- a static image. When that happens, the only thing one has to rely on to describe what's happening is Text.

When I'm writing a scene I don't have images for, or I'm using Static characters, (characters that don't change their expressions,) I do put the description in the dialogue boxes with the dialogue and use quotation marks to separate the dialogue from the narrative, just like I would in a regular story.

When I have long descriptive scenes; such as a fight scene or a love scene, I still put the description in the dialogue boxes and use quotation marks, but I write those in Novel Mode. Mainly because it's much faster to read it that way and the reader won't be distracted (or frustrated) by needing to click after every sentence.

But that's just me. If you want to use ADV mode to show each line of Dialogue separate from your descriptive text, be my guest. It's been done before, so I doubt anyone will say anything about it. It's just much, much slower to read.

The problem comes in when there's a LOT of narrative and more than one character is Acting in said narrative.

When you have more than one character doing things, I strongly advise keeping each character's actions separated out to individual lines. Mainly because it's very easy to lose track of who is doing what when the actions of more than one person are all mashed into the same paragraph, but also because that's how you're supposed to do it.

"Where the heck did THAT rule come from?"

Strunk & White's Element's of Style, the grammar handbook.
-- To wit…

In dialogue, each speech, even if only a single word, is a paragraph by itself; that is, a new paragraph begins with each change of speaker."

This is often misinterpreted as "Make a new paragraph at every new line of dialogue."

Um... No. The key phrase here is: "a new paragraph begins with each change of speaker."

As long as the Speaker is Acting, the Speaker HAS NOT CHANGED. However, every time a new character Acts, you ARE Changing Speakers -- even if they don't talk! Therefore, each new character ACTING gets a New Paragraph, whether or not they have dialogue.

How this works...

WRONG:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I twitch as he slowly moves his hand to my shirt and up it. His fingertips tickle a bit, but I resist to laugh.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WHY this is WRONG:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I twitch < Her actions|as |His actions >he slowly moves his hand to my shirt and up it. His fingertips tickle a bit, < His actions | Her actions > but I resist to laugh.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

First, remove the word AS.
-- This is a red-flag word. 9 times out of 10 it means that you've written the sentence Backwards. In fiction --and only in fiction-- you're supposed to write in Chronological order; the order in which things actually happen. (Reference: Scene & Structure by Bickam)

Also, write story narrative in Past Tense. Sure there are authors that write in the Present Tense, but few of them actually do it right, and in English, it's uncomfortable to read -- especially in Action scenes.

Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I twitched.
He slowly moved his hand to my shirt and up it.
His fingertips tickled me a bit, but I resisted laughing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now ask yourself, where does "I twitched" actually belong?
-- My guess is that it belongs here:

Adjusted again:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He slowly moved his hand onto my shirt.
I twitched.
His fingertips moved further up it.
It tickled a bit, but I resisted laughing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If the sentences seem too short, Add More Description.

But what about when someone is watching someone else, or feeling someone do something to them?
-- Concerned about Observation

This looks perfectly fine, right?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He watched her shake her butt.
He felt her skin move against his.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

However, once you take this into account:
-- "…A new paragraph begins with Each Change of Speaker."
When a new character ACTS they're supposed to get a new paragraph.

Not so fine after all. You have two people acting in the same line -- in Both Lines. The way around this little gem of a problem, is to SHOW the event by character rather than TELL it in one lump. You begin by dividing the actions by Character:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He watched her.
She shook her butt and her skin moved against his.
He felt it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seems kind'a…short eh? That's because those lines TOLD you what happened instead of Showing you what happened so there are all kinds of details missing. Once you add enough details to paint a whole picture…

Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From his seat at the edge of the stage, he watched her.

Tall, svelte, and in the skimpiest bathing suit he'd ever seen, she moved in close and shook her butt. The round, firm flesh jiggled enticingly against his face.

His cheeks were subjected to the most incredible, though slightly sweaty, facial massage ever.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

See?

You can take my advice or leave it, your choice. However this is how I was taught to write by my publishing editors.

[Mad Harlequin]

I think everyone should read this many times over. Excellent post!

[OokamiKasumi]

I think everyone should read this many times over. Excellent post!

I'm glad you liked it! Hopefully it'll even prove helpful.

[pocoscon]

I apprciate the time you put into this critique and your thoughts on my scene. However, I would have appreciated it if you had spoken to me before using my story as an example. Granted you have some great points, but you it would have been more respectful to me as the writer if you told me first.....

[BrokenAngel75]

Subject: Advice on Writing Narrative in VNs

Advice on Writing Narrative in VNs
--RePosted by Request from PyTom & Edited for Adult Content--

I twitch as he slowly moves his hand to my shirt and up it. His fingertips tickle a bit, but I resist to laugh.

-- From a long adult scene posted by pocoscon.

The scene itself was excellent, lots of descriptive details and quite entertaining, however the sentence structure used to write the scene...?
-- There were more than a few examples I could have used from that post, but this one line covers pretty much everything.

Something I only learned after being published:
-- When writing a Story, you're Not supposed to put two people's Actions in the same paragraph, and definitely not in the same sentence, for exactly the same reason you don't put two people's Dialogue in the same paragraph.

Changes in characters/actions do not necessarily require new paragraphs. For example, take the following excerpt from Jandy Nelson's published novel "The Sky Is Everywhere":

"I put my book and pen down on the table. Gram leans in close to the plant, whispers to it about the importance of joie de vivre, then lumbers over to the couch, sitting down next to me. Then Big joins us, plopping his enormous frame down beside Gram. We three, each with the same unruly hair that sits on our heads like a bustle of shiny black crows, stay like this, staring at nothing, for the rest of the afternoon."

The author introduces 3 different characters and a slew of new actions within one paragraph.

1. The protagonist/narrator puts her book and pen down on the table
2. Her grandmother leans in (new character, new action, no new paragraph)
3. Big joins them and sits down next to gram (same as above + multiple actions)
4. All three characters stare out at nothing (etc.)

So while you can play with spacing as a matter of stylistic preference or to emphasize "beat changes" it isn't an absolute rule in editing/writing.


Why not?
-- Everybody knows that when a new speaker speaks they get a new paragraph, right? In other words, you DON'T put two different people talking in the same paragraph. Anyone who has written any kind of fiction learns this pretty darned quick, (usually from their readers.) When writing for a VN you're kind of forced to do this because each character's dialogue is separated by their individual text boxes.

What nobody seems to get is that the same goes for a new character's ACTIONS. Seriously, when a new character ACTS they're supposed to get their own paragraph -- even if they don't speak!

Be careful of the generalization here, this is not an absolute rule and to claim so could mislead writers into thinking that this is set in stone when this is preferential as I said above.

You paragraph by Change of CHARACTER -- not because they speak, but because they ACT.

Same point as above. The reasons why authors separate dialogue vs. paragraph break are not one in the same. The main reason for dialogue splitting is to delineate who is speaking (especially in the absence of dialogue tags) not necessarily because of action changes. Any publisher/literary agent will tell you the importance of maintaining clarity when putting breaks between dialogue for the purpose of voicing clarification. What many people seem to forget is that Dialogue is an ACTION. In other words, the reason you don't put two different characters' Dialogue in the same paragraph is BECAUSE you're not supposed to mix two characters' Actions.

"Wait a minute, doesn't that cut everything into tiny bits, you know, when you cut all the dialogue away then divide up all those paragraphs?"

In normal fiction, Character A's dialogue is supposed to be in Character A's paragraph of actions. Character B gets his own paragraph of dialogue AND actions. You divide up a story's paragraphs by individual Character -- not by individual lines of Dialogue OR Actions.

VN fiction is a little trickier.
-- In VN fiction, you could add the descriptive parts (the narrative) to the dialogue in the same box using Quotation Marks to separate the dialogue from the narrative, (just like in a real book!) However, most don't bother with description at all because description is normally handled by using Images -- not words. Instead, narrative text ends up in its own textbox, completely separate from the dialogue. This works just fine in most cases.

However, sometimes one doesn't have the right images for a needed scene, or the image is a CG -- a static image. When that happens, the only thing one has to rely on to describe what's happening is Text.

When I'm writing a scene I don't have images for, or I'm using Static characters, (characters that don't change their expressions,) I do put the description in the dialogue boxes with the dialogue and use quotation marks to separate the dialogue from the narrative, just like I would in a regular story.

V_screenshot16.jpg

When I have long descriptive scenes; such as a fight scene or a love scene, I still put the description in the dialogue boxes and use quotation marks, but I write those in Novel Mode. Mainly because it's much faster to read it that way and the reader won't be distracted (or frustrated) by needing to click after every sentence.

Ivan20.jpg

But that's just me. If you want to use ADV mode to show each line of Dialogue separate from your descriptive text, be my guest. It's been done before, so I doubt anyone will say anything about it. It's just much, much slower to read.

The problem comes in when there's a LOT of narrative and more than one character is Acting in said narrative.

When you have more than one character doing things, I strongly advise keeping each character's actions separated out to individual lines. Mainly because it's very easy to lose track of who is doing what when the actions of more than one person are all mashed into the same paragraph, but also because that's how you're supposed to do it.

"Where the heck did THAT rule come from?"

Strunk & White's Element's of Style, the grammar handbook.
-- To wit…

In dialogue, each speech, even if only a single word, is a paragraph by itself; that is, a new paragraph begins with each change of speaker."

This is often misinterpreted as "Make a new paragraph at every new line of dialogue."

Um... No. The key phrase here is: "a new paragraph begins with each change of speaker."

As long as the Speaker is Acting, the Speaker HAS NOT CHANGED. However, every time a new character Acts, you ARE Changing Speakers -- even if they don't talk! Therefore, each new character ACTING gets a New Paragraph, whether or not they have dialogue.

How this works...

WRONG: Grammatically and structurally there is nothing inherently wrong with this sentence aside from the last portion where "the urge" is missing between "resist" and "to".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I twitch as he slowly moves his hand to my shirt and up it. His fingertips tickle a bit, but I resist to laugh.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WHY this is WRONG:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I twitch < Her actions|as |His actions >he slowly moves his hand to my shirt and up it. His fingertips tickle a bit, < His actions | Her actions > but I resist to laugh.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

First, remove the word AS.
-- This is a red-flag word. 9 times out of 10 it means that you've written the sentence Backwards. In fiction --and only in fiction-- you're supposed to write in Chronological order; the order in which things actually happen. (Reference: Scene & Structure by Bickam)

I completely understand what you're saying, but "as" isn't always problematic in writing. Granted, "as" becomes an issue to editors when it signals passive phrasing. For example, "As he slowly moves his hand to my shirt...etc." could proceed into passive phrasing and should be revised. But as it's structured in this sentence, there isn't anything grammatically wrong. The structure used isn't recommended and can always be rephrased. But this structure is used somewhat commonly in the larger literary world without too much fault as long as it's kept to a minimum.

Also, write story narrative in Past Tense. Sure there are authors that write in the Present Tense, but few of them actually do it right, and in English, it's uncomfortable to read -- especially in Action scenes.

There are a slew of authors who write novels in present tense particularly in the Young Adult world where it is becoming increasingly popular. Past is more common and comfortable for people to read because it makes up the majority of published works, but the tense choice is completely at the digression of the author. There is no "right" tense to use, it's the execution that counts.

Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I twitched.
He slowly moved his hand to my shirt and up it.
His fingertips tickled me a bit, but I resisted laughing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now ask yourself, where does "I twitched" actually belong?
-- My guess is that it belongs here:

Adjusted again:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He slowly moved his hand onto my shirt.
I twitched.
His fingertips moved further up it.
It tickled a bit, but I resisted laughing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If the sentences seem too short, Add More Description.

But what about when someone is watching someone else, or feeling someone do something to them? -- Concerned about Observation

This looks perfectly fine, right?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He watched her shake her butt.
He felt her skin move against his.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

However, once you take this into account:
-- "…A new paragraph begins with Each Change of Speaker."
When a new character ACTS they're supposed to get a new paragraph.

Not so fine after all. You have two people acting in the same line -- in Both Lines. The way around this little gem of a problem, is to SHOW the event by character rather than TELL it in one lump. You begin by dividing the actions by Character:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He watched her.
She shook her butt and her skin moved against his.
He felt it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seems kind'a…short eh? That's because those lines TOLD you what happened instead of Showing you what happened so there are all kinds of details missing. Once you add enough details to paint a whole picture…

Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From his seat at the edge of the stage, he watched her.

Tall, svelte, and in the skimpiest bathing suit he'd ever seen, she moved in close and shook her butt. The round, firm flesh jiggled enticingly against his face.

His cheeks were subjected to the most incredible, though slightly sweaty, facial massage ever.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

See?

You can take my advice or leave it, your choice. However this is how I was taught to write by my publishing editors.

You definitely have some solid points throughout, but I'd be mindful of the validity of some of the ones you've stated many of them are preference based rather than absolute.

[OokamiKasumi]

Changes in characters/actions do not necessarily require new paragraphs. For example, take the following excerpt from Jandy Nelson's published novel "The Sky Is Everywhere":

I put my book and pen down on the table. Gram leans in close to the plant, whispers to it about the importance of joie de vivre, then lumbers over to the couch, sitting down next to me. Then Big joins us, plopping his enormous frame down beside Gram. We three, each with the same unruly hair that sits on our heads like a bustle of shiny black crows, stay like this, staring at nothing, for the rest of the afternoon.

The author introduces 3 different characters and a slew of new actions within one paragraph.

1. The protagonist/narrator puts her book and pen down on the table
2. Her grandmother leans in (new character, new action, no new paragraph)
3. Big joins them and sits down next to gram (same as above + multiple actions)
4. All three characters stare out at nothing (etc.)

So while you can play with spacing as a matter of stylistic preference or to emphasize "beat changes" it isn't an absolute rule in editing/writing.

That this work made it to publication with such poor paragraphing simply means that this author's editor is not nearly as exacting as any of mine. (I have 4 because I write for 4 different publishing houses.) If I tried to hand something like this in to one of my editors, my work would look slaughtered from all the red ink slashing through the lines. However, publishers of Young Adult novels are notorious for letting this sort of bad editing slide by. Cases in point: Twilight and Hunger Games. Both of these YA books are infamous for their atrocious editing.

What nobody seems to get is that the same goes for a new character's ACTIONS. Seriously, when a new character ACTS they're supposed to get their own paragraph -- even if they don't speak!

Be careful of the generalization here, this is not an absolute rule and to claim so could mislead writers into thinking that this is set in stone when this is preferential as I said above.

It's not generalization to my editors, it IS an absolute rule because my editors are the ones that taught it to me. If this isn't what your editors are teaching you then count yourself lucky that you it's not expected of you. However, this type of paragraphing will eventually be expected from one of your editors especially if you're Not writing YA.

You paragraph by Change of CHARACTER -- not because they speak, but because they ACT.

Same point as above. The reasons why authors separate dialogue vs. paragraph break are not one in the same. The main reason for dialogue splitting is to delineate who is speaking (especially in the absence of dialogue tags) not necessarily because of action changes. Any publisher/literary agent will tell you the importance of maintaining clarity when putting breaks between dialogue for the purpose of voicing clarification.

In the absence of dialogue tags --which I do not use-- putting a character's Actions with their Dialogue is the best way to delineate Who is speaking. When there is No Dialogue, paragraphing by Character maintains visual clarification. In other words, it keeps the mental movie in the reader's mind crisp and clear as to who is doing what at any given time. Read Scene and Structure by Bickam, seriously. It's a Writer's Digest book.

Also read Strunk & White's Element's of Style, the grammar handbook.

In dialogue, each speech, even if only a single word, is a paragraph by itself; that is, a new paragraph begins with each change of speaker."

The key phrase here is: "a new paragraph begins with each change of speaker."

Grammatically and structurally there is nothing inherently wrong with this sentence aside from the last portion where "the urge" is missing between "resist" and "to".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I twitch as he slowly moves his hand to my shirt and up it. His fingertips tickle a bit, but I resist to laugh.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

According to my grammar books, you are correct -- IF you are writing a Report or something journalistic such as a news article.

When writing a Story it Is wrong because Fiction is supposed to be written in Chronological Order. (Reference: Scene & Structure by Bickam)

AS is a red-flag word. 9 times out of 10 it means that you've written the sentence Backwards. In fiction --and only in fiction-- you're supposed to write in Chronological order; the order in which things actually happen. (Reference: Scene & Structure by Bickam)

I completely understand what you're saying, but "as" isn't always problematic in writing. Granted, "as" becomes an issue to editors when it signals passive phrasing. ... But as it's structured in this sentence, there isn't anything grammatically wrong. The structure used isn't recommended and can always be rephrased.

You are quite correct. Using "AS" isn't always problematic. The problem is when "AS" knocks the sentence out of Chronological Order, which in the case of this line, it Does.

Fiction needs to be written in Chronological Order --the order in which things actually happen-- because the reader is Picturing the events written in the same order they Read them. Any time the reader is forced to Stop Reading to go back and reread a line to get their mental movie back on track is Bad. Remember, readers read for Pleasure. Making them stop to reread line after line eventually stops being pleasure and becomes Work. If done too much, the reader will very likely put the story down to go find something less Work to read.

...But this structure is used somewhat commonly in the larger literary world without too much fault as long as it's kept to a minimum.

Just because something is commonly used does Not make it Right. Head-hopping was also commonly used 20 years ago, but these days most editors will refuse any manuscript that changes POV more than twice in once chapter. Unless of course, you're a multi-million-dollar NYT best-selling author like Nora Roberts. (No one is going to argue with someone whose books will make a million dollars simply because of an author's name.)

Also, write story narrative in Past Tense. Sure there are authors that write in the Present Tense, but few of them actually do it right, and in English, it's uncomfortable to read -- especially in Action scenes.

There are a slew of authors who write novels in present tense particularly in the Young Adult world where it is becoming increasingly popular. Past is more common and comfortable for people to read because it makes up the majority of published works, but the tense choice is completely at the digression of the author. There is no "right" tense to use, it's the execution that counts.

You are quite correct, there are a slew of authors who write novels in present tense particularly in the Young Adult world -- and they're AWFUL. In fact, a lot of sloppy writing is appearing in Young Adult works. Makes me wonder what those editors are thinking. My editors are horrified that such work is being published.

You are also correct in that writing in Past Tense or Present Tense is up to the author, but that doesn't change the fact that Present Tense is uncomfortable to read, or that Present Tense is extremely difficult for a beginner to write without making tons of errors. (I know professional journalists that still have trouble writing in Present Tense.)

You definitely have some solid points throughout, but I'd be mindful of the validity of some of the ones you've stated many of them are preference based rather than absolute.

Thank you, and you are quite correct, they are preferences; my editors' preferences which I see as being quite valid, especially if one plans to eventually write fiction for publication because this is what is expected in my work as a multi-published fiction author. Even so, whether or not you, or anyone else, chooses to take my advice is entirely up to you.

[Rara]

Good!

[SinSisters]

Hmm, interesting post, though not sure I would take it all as a strict guideline. One of the things I love about writing is that you can either follow to the guidebook or give yourself complete freedom. For me, I would pick having a sentence sound nice over having it follow all the rules. If I have interrelated actions, then it seems silly to separate them into their own paragraph. "Janice takes a step closer to Mark, causing him to cower if fear." If I was writing a sentence like that, even if it's correct to separate them, would I want to? Very few readers would know about this rule (well, until now that is LOL). These rules seem to make more sense for for plays, in my opinion, because actions are more often than not divided per actor. Even then, though, I know that I read a play this last summer that had one actor's actions in another actor's paragraph.
I try to avoid action between character in my VN anyway, because it's not prose and I don't think it should be treated so.

-Nat

[OokamiKasumi]

Hmm, interesting post, though not sure I would take it all as a strict guideline.

Then don't. How a VN should be written is entirely up to the creator. Consider this advice merely a Tool in the writer's toolbox that you can use or not, as you like.

...Very few readers would know about this rule (well, until now that is LOL).

Oops! My bad. ;P

I try to avoid action between characters in my VN anyway, because it's not prose and I don't think it should be treated so.

There are many who see VNs more as a Game than as a Story -- prose. However, there are those that do indeed see VNs as a new and interesting form of Prose. I happen to be one of them.

Note...

Janice takes a step closer to Mark, causing him to cower if fear.

You realize that you are Telling in this line rather than Showing?
-- You are not making a Picture (Showing) with that line. You are making a Statement (Telling.) You are Telling the reader what Mark is feeling (...in fear,) instead of Showing the Body Language that indicates his feelings and would allow the reader to guess for themselves what is going on.

Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eyes narrowed and jaw tight, Janice took a step toward Mark. "Mark..."

Mark flinched back, his eyes widening. He abruptly ducked his head and turned his gaze to the side and downward. His shoulders dropped and he trembled just a little. "W-what?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

See the difference?

Even a tiny bit of spot description can completely change the mental imagery in the reader's mind.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I love you too." She rolled her eyes and sighed dramatically. "Oh yes, I truly do love you."
"I love you too." She dropped her chin and pouted. "Oh yes, I truly do love you."
"I love you too." She glared straight at him. "Oh yes, I truly do love you."
"I love you too." She turned away and wiped the tear from her cheek. "Oh yes, I truly do love you."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In a VN, Showing and Telling aren't all that important because the Images do most of the description, if not all of it. However, when one is writing an actual story, Description --Showing-- is vitally important. Without enough description the reader has to Guess what is going on and how things are being said. Quite often, what the reader imagines does not match what the author envisioned when writing that scene. When the reader finally realizes that what they'd been envisioning is Wrong it causes Confusion, or worse; Frustration. At the very least, they're forced to reread entire sections to get their mental movie back on track.

Frustrate the reader too much and they will Stop Reading to go find something easier to read, and possibly avoid any work that author might write in the future.

But again, this is merely advice. You're welcome to take it or leave it. It's up to you.

[E-night]

But if you show too much and never tell the story will come to a halt because it has to show every damn thing. In your revised version, as you said yourself, the feel is different, but you have no way of knowing if that was the feeling the author was going for.


Show don't tell is good advice, because on the avarage people tell too much, but the true advice should be, know when to show and know when to tell.

[OokamiKasumi]

But if you show too much and never tell the story will come to a halt because it has to show every damn thing.

Very True.
-- When I first started writing this was one of my biggest faults; too much detail. My stories were practically travelogues from all the details I stuffed in them. Tolkien was my original model for writing description -- BIG Mistake! Unfortunately, the internet didn't exist back then, so I had only my mom, my best friend Margaret, and my three younger brothers to rely on as my beta-readers. (I did Not write adult material back then, strictly adventure and horror.) Thank the gods they were as brutal as they were. I learned real fast just how much detail they'd put up with before they tossed it back at me and sneered, "Booooring!"

Believe it or not, I wrote out whole scenes from Movies and TV shows to measure how much action vs. how much detail as practice. You guys are soooo lucky to have the internet to help you.

In your revised version, as you said yourself, the feel is different, but you have no way of knowing if that was the feeling the author was going for.

Again, very true.
-- However, it's also a perfect example of how a reader can and will interpret what's written however they see fit.

All a writer can do is be as crystal clear as their command of the language allows them and hope they get their point across. THIS is why multiple beta readers and good editors are a writer's best friend. If the writer misses something, or over-exposes something, the beta-readers will catch it before the work ever sees print.

'Show, Don't Tell' is good advice because on the average people tell too much, but the true advice should be, know when to show and know when to tell.

Also very true.
-- There are times when Telling is better than Showing, such as when your characters are in a location you've already described, or you're doing a flash-back to a situation that was detailed earlier in the story. Even so, it's still better to err on the side of Show rather than Tell -- especially if you're a beginner at writing. Details can easily be trimmed out later, but adding in stuff can be a major pain in the butt.

[Barzini]

These are all really useful advice. I think the worst thing I have ever come across is when a "third hand" appears...

[OokamiKasumi]

These are all really useful advice. I think the worst thing I have ever come across is when a "third hand" appears.

I'm glad you liked it.
-- What do you mean by "third hand"?

[Taleweaver]

-- What do you mean by "third hand"?

Probably something like this:

He held me tightly, both his hands firmly squeezing my butt, while he gently ran his fingers over my temple...

[OokamiKasumi]

-- What do you mean by "third hand"?

Probably something like this:

He held me tightly, both his hands firmly squeezing my butt, while he gently ran his fingers over my temple...

Oh, that...!
-- I've actually seen a few examples of that sort of thing in Published books. Never fails to make me laugh hysterically.