What Breaks Your Immersion?
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What Breaks Your Immersion?
What kind of writing issues break your immersion?
Here are a few of mine:
- Any spelling and grammar errors
- Wonky translations
- Art and writing disagreements (Ex. In the opening of Clannad, Nasagi is said to be crying at one point, but the art doesn't show it.)
- Over the top exposition
- Being blocked from story progression by a sleep requirement (mostly found in Flash games)
- Huge amounts of dialogue where I want to make a choice, but the game won't let me
Here are a few of mine:
- Any spelling and grammar errors
- Wonky translations
- Art and writing disagreements (Ex. In the opening of Clannad, Nasagi is said to be crying at one point, but the art doesn't show it.)
- Over the top exposition
- Being blocked from story progression by a sleep requirement (mostly found in Flash games)
- Huge amounts of dialogue where I want to make a choice, but the game won't let me
- trooper6
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Re: What Breaks Your Immersion?
At first I was going to say that not much breaks my immersion...but then I read your examples and I realized that yeah...some things do break my immersion.
For me:
Spelling and Grammar errors pull me out of the story really quickly.
Poor quality (in writing, in voice acting, in art work, in music, etc)
Moe anime style artwork paired with a dark and gritty story.
Puzzles game play doesn't break my immersion. I just sort of take that as part of the story and move on. However, when I played 999 and realized that you had to play the game multiple times in order to unlock the best ending...that really broke my immersion and I had to stop playing the game.
When the story revolves around the PC and the NPCs don't seem to have lives of their own in a way that doesn't feel like any kind of real life I've ever known.
For me:
Spelling and Grammar errors pull me out of the story really quickly.
Poor quality (in writing, in voice acting, in art work, in music, etc)
Moe anime style artwork paired with a dark and gritty story.
Puzzles game play doesn't break my immersion. I just sort of take that as part of the story and move on. However, when I played 999 and realized that you had to play the game multiple times in order to unlock the best ending...that really broke my immersion and I had to stop playing the game.
When the story revolves around the PC and the NPCs don't seem to have lives of their own in a way that doesn't feel like any kind of real life I've ever known.
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*Last Thing Done (Aug 17): Finished coding emotions and camera for 4/10 main labels.
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*Last Thing Done (Aug 17): Finished coding emotions and camera for 4/10 main labels.
*Currently Doing: Coding of emotions and camera for the labels--On 5/10
*First Next thing to do: Code in all CG and special animation stuff
*Next Next thing to do: Set up film animation
*Other Thing to Do: Do SFX and Score (maybe think about eye blinks?) Check out My Clock Cookbook Recipe: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 51&t=21978
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Re: What Breaks Your Immersion?
I think spelling and grammar are the two big ones for me, as well as stilted or bad writing in general. Continuity errors really get me, too. I don't see it too often, but sometimes in a branching VN, when different paths meet up at a shared scene, the scene won't quite match up with all the paths. Usually it's small things, like mentioning (or not mentioning) something a character has or hasn't seen or said or done, but sometimes pretty major details are wrong, or the overall tone or pacing just doesn't fit with the path I've been reading and it takes me right out of the story.
- OokamiKasumi
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Re: What Breaks Your Immersion?
All of the above plus:verysunshine wrote:What kind of writing issues break your immersion?
Here are a few of mine:
- Any spelling and grammar errors
- Wonky translations
- Art and writing disagreements (Ex. In the opening of Clannad, Nasagi is said to be crying at one point, but the art doesn't show it.)
- Over the top exposition
- Being blocked from story progression by a sleep requirement (mostly found in Flash games)
- Huge amounts of dialogue where I want to make a choice, but the game won't let me
-- Poor Research; especially when the information IS available.
Case in point: Valkyrie Romanze.
-- A romance game that features Middle and High-school kids Jousting.
Whoever set that game up clearly knew next to nothing about actual Jousting.
The armor used by the teen-aged riders have so many open gaps (Skin actually showing!) it would get them killed, or at least maimed for life.
-- Even modern day jousters wear more armor than they do. Medieval jousters were fully armored -- and so were their horses.
The horses don't wear enough armor to keep them from getting killed or maimed.
-- Medieval jousting horses were as fully armored as their riders to protect them from the long jagged splinters from the shattering lances and from their heavily armored rider should he be thrown from the saddle. Being kicked by a fully armored leg is no joke for a horse. In addition, the head armor on jousting horses included protection for their eyes. In fact, medieval jousting horses were often ridden Blind.
-- Modern competition jousting uses far lighter and more fragile lances, yet they still put armor on the head and chest of the horse.
Jousting is FAR more dangerous than it's portrayed in this game.
-- Jousting participants ALWAYS left the field with some sort of damage. If a lance's flying splinters didn't stab them in the joints or eyes, the impact of simply hitting someone else with their lance would leave a vicious impact bruise in their shoulder joint, if it didn't completely dislocate the shoulder in spite of the reinforced and often Welded shoulder plates. Also, falling from a horse going at a gallop in a full suit of armor doesn't just leave bruises. Limbs regularly snapped at the knee, and/or elbow simply from the armor's weight throwing the limb the wrong way in a tumble, if he wasn't trampled by his own mount.
No sane parent would allow their school-aged child to take part in such an incredibly dangerous sport.
-- Modern jousting, competitive or historical reenactment, will not allow anyone under 21 to participate specifically because this sport is so damned dangerous. Certainly not high school kids, and definitely not middle-school kids.
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Re: What Breaks Your Immersion?
For me it's when something stops being entertaining. It's the only thing that will always break my immersion no matter what.
- noeinan
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Re: What Breaks Your Immersion?
Most of what people have said above-- though, I have had cases where a story was very immersive even though it had terrible grammar. (English was not the creator's first language.) As long as there is a pattern, and the premise is not terribly intellectual, I can get used to the flow and just see the scenes visually.
Another thing that bothers me is when the game itself supports things I find morally objectionable. Now, morally objectionable things *can* happen in a game and it doesn't break immersion for me. The issue I run into is when something is casual, or just a part of the story for no real reason, and it enforces harmful ideas. (Ex. racism, sexism, etc.)
On that note, it's harder for me to get into casts that are not diverse, without a good reason for that. Ex. a cast of all women and one dude, a cast where all the characters basically have the same face or body type, where all the characters are the same race, where all the characters have the same beliefs. There are plot reasons that mean the cast shares something-- maybe the story surrounds a political group (such as revolutionaries) or takes place in an all girls school etc. But even in those circumstances, there will be diversity among beliefs, and there will be men *not* at the school who are referenced, for example.
Even in political groups that share a goal, there are going to be different people drawn to that goal for different reasons. These people are likely to disagree on *how* that goal should be accomplished, even if they agree on the goal. In an all girls school, people will still talk about brothers, fathers, that dude who runs a convenience store. Some girls are going to be dating someone from another school who is male. There may even be some male teachers or a janitor or something.
The reason these things break immersion for me is that they make the game *less fun* for me. I want to enjoy a game, but when I see that for some reason everyone is white, and the game is supposed to take place in, like, New York or something, I'm like... Not everyone in NY is white... There is actually a lot of racial diversity there... This brings up negative memories of white washing and other racist trends in mainstream media and now I am not in the fun zone.
Another thing that bothers me is when the game itself supports things I find morally objectionable. Now, morally objectionable things *can* happen in a game and it doesn't break immersion for me. The issue I run into is when something is casual, or just a part of the story for no real reason, and it enforces harmful ideas. (Ex. racism, sexism, etc.)
On that note, it's harder for me to get into casts that are not diverse, without a good reason for that. Ex. a cast of all women and one dude, a cast where all the characters basically have the same face or body type, where all the characters are the same race, where all the characters have the same beliefs. There are plot reasons that mean the cast shares something-- maybe the story surrounds a political group (such as revolutionaries) or takes place in an all girls school etc. But even in those circumstances, there will be diversity among beliefs, and there will be men *not* at the school who are referenced, for example.
Even in political groups that share a goal, there are going to be different people drawn to that goal for different reasons. These people are likely to disagree on *how* that goal should be accomplished, even if they agree on the goal. In an all girls school, people will still talk about brothers, fathers, that dude who runs a convenience store. Some girls are going to be dating someone from another school who is male. There may even be some male teachers or a janitor or something.
The reason these things break immersion for me is that they make the game *less fun* for me. I want to enjoy a game, but when I see that for some reason everyone is white, and the game is supposed to take place in, like, New York or something, I'm like... Not everyone in NY is white... There is actually a lot of racial diversity there... This brings up negative memories of white washing and other racist trends in mainstream media and now I am not in the fun zone.
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Re: What Breaks Your Immersion?
Spelling is a big one, and especially when it comes to commercial games, regular games, normal literature, because I expect them to be professional and there's nothing worse that having your eyes stop on a misspelt word and going 'they done goofed.' Grammar isn't less 'they done goofed' and more 'it sucks that I have to reread this sentence a few times to understand what they're trying to say' (which, by the way, can happen even if the sentence is grammatically correct. It just means that it's difficult to understand).verysunshine wrote: - Any spelling and grammar errors
- Wonky translations
- Art and writing disagreements (Ex. In the opening of Clannad, Nasagi is said to be crying at one point, but the art doesn't show it.)
- Over the top exposition
- Being blocked from story progression by a sleep requirement (mostly found in Flash games)
- Huge amounts of dialogue where I want to make a choice, but the game won't let me
To be honest, wonky translations are funny in my opinion, and the one game that I played that had wonky translations was already a humourous game, so it certainly didn't take away from the overall game.
Ugh, definitely with the art & writing disagreements, which is one of the problems I have with visual novel writing (I want a character to be physically interacting with another character, but I still want to show both sprites. Obviously we wouldn't show a CG for something that small, but it still noticeable).
Another thing is partially my own fault, but when the writing becomes boring I find myself skimming and just wanting to get to a 'good part' or at least a choice option.
My biggest qualm with all visual novels is 'repeated text', like (P)lanets, where many of the events and text is repeated, forcing the player to reread the text or skip through half of the game, making the experience not enjoyable.
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Re: What Breaks Your Immersion?
I'm surprised no one has said this yet, but my all time biggest pet peeve is when character sprites have artifacts/remnants/fuzzy white dots floating around them.
This happens a lot more than you'd think. Maybe I'm more anal about it because I work full time as a graphic designer, so it's my job to notice these things, but it blows my mind that this happens so much. In fact, I'm playing a through really great visual novel right now, a game that I paid $15 for, and I've noticed that even this game, which has gotten tons of praise and is really popular, has freaking sprites with artifacts and white bits and pieces around them. It drives me absolutely crazy.
Maybe I shouldn't be so hard on these games, especially as I'm still working on my own, but how hard is it really to go through your game, which you are planning on selling, and make sure that the sprites look clean? Is that really too much to ask?
This happens a lot more than you'd think. Maybe I'm more anal about it because I work full time as a graphic designer, so it's my job to notice these things, but it blows my mind that this happens so much. In fact, I'm playing a through really great visual novel right now, a game that I paid $15 for, and I've noticed that even this game, which has gotten tons of praise and is really popular, has freaking sprites with artifacts and white bits and pieces around them. It drives me absolutely crazy.
Maybe I shouldn't be so hard on these games, especially as I'm still working on my own, but how hard is it really to go through your game, which you are planning on selling, and make sure that the sprites look clean? Is that really too much to ask?
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Re: What Breaks Your Immersion?
- Spelling, grammatical errors, or poor translation (though who wouldn't be removed from immersion with typographical errors in a game that's text-dependent?)
- Artifacts around the sprites (saw this in My Forged Wedding and I'm like, what?!)
- Jarring musical shifts, or music that doesn't seem to fit the moment's mood (Awkward moment, happy music o.O)
- Contrived plot points that seem to just come out of nowhere (Deus Ex!)
- The main character just being a dumbass in general: This one sets the mood for the entire game, and I can't stand a heroine with no backbone, ruined.
- Artifacts around the sprites (saw this in My Forged Wedding and I'm like, what?!)
- Jarring musical shifts, or music that doesn't seem to fit the moment's mood (Awkward moment, happy music o.O)
- Contrived plot points that seem to just come out of nowhere (Deus Ex!)
- The main character just being a dumbass in general: This one sets the mood for the entire game, and I can't stand a heroine with no backbone, ruined.
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- trooper6
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Re: What Breaks Your Immersion?
Oh...yeah...that really breaks my immersion, too. It happens way too much as well.Erotome wrote: - Jarring musical shifts, or music that doesn't seem to fit the moment's mood (Awkward moment, happy music o.O)
A Close Shave:
*Last Thing Done (Aug 17): Finished coding emotions and camera for 4/10 main labels.
*Currently Doing: Coding of emotions and camera for the labels--On 5/10
*First Next thing to do: Code in all CG and special animation stuff
*Next Next thing to do: Set up film animation
*Other Thing to Do: Do SFX and Score (maybe think about eye blinks?) Check out My Clock Cookbook Recipe: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 51&t=21978
*Last Thing Done (Aug 17): Finished coding emotions and camera for 4/10 main labels.
*Currently Doing: Coding of emotions and camera for the labels--On 5/10
*First Next thing to do: Code in all CG and special animation stuff
*Next Next thing to do: Set up film animation
*Other Thing to Do: Do SFX and Score (maybe think about eye blinks?) Check out My Clock Cookbook Recipe: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 51&t=21978
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Re: What Breaks Your Immersion?
For me, it's when a character references the work they're in - not the genre, but the actual medium. Usually an incident occurs causing the character to say "Man, it's like I'm in one in those cheesy visual novels or something!" or "Geez, what do you think this is, one of those stupid eroge games?" I know it can be used to get a cheap laugh, and although it won't stop me from reading, I always find my palm on my face and sighing at that point.
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Re: What Breaks Your Immersion?
These are some of the things most likely to break my immersion:
1. Inconsistent or poorly-researched setting. Unless it's historical fiction, I'm pretty forgiving until reality flies out the window, such as in OokamiKasumi's jousting example. One thing that stands out in particular to me--Medieval fantasy is often the culprit--tends to be the treatment of horses or money as if horses are really just four-legged cars and gold coins are as commonplace as dollar bills.
2. Over-use of idioms. Or more than one idiom in a sentence:
"It's going to rain cats and dogs until the cows come home!"
3. Outdated, inaccurate, presumptuous or silly psychoanalysis. Such as, but not limited to:
>Protagonist knows too much about the motivations of other characters, as if he is able to perform psychic psychoanalysis, made worse if he does not explain or provide evidence for how he has reached his conclusions about other characters' motivations.
>The villain references her own psychological motivations in a speech... and not ironically.
1. Inconsistent or poorly-researched setting. Unless it's historical fiction, I'm pretty forgiving until reality flies out the window, such as in OokamiKasumi's jousting example. One thing that stands out in particular to me--Medieval fantasy is often the culprit--tends to be the treatment of horses or money as if horses are really just four-legged cars and gold coins are as commonplace as dollar bills.
2. Over-use of idioms. Or more than one idiom in a sentence:
"It's going to rain cats and dogs until the cows come home!"
3. Outdated, inaccurate, presumptuous or silly psychoanalysis. Such as, but not limited to:
>Protagonist knows too much about the motivations of other characters, as if he is able to perform psychic psychoanalysis, made worse if he does not explain or provide evidence for how he has reached his conclusions about other characters' motivations.
>The villain references her own psychological motivations in a speech... and not ironically.
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Re: What Breaks Your Immersion?
Inconsistent and/or overly whimsical characters. People doing random stuff for no reason:
- "Let's have a contest who cooks better to see who gets to marry him!"
- Going from "meh" to "I love you so much" in two days - although this is mostly any game's short length's fault.
- Characters that could never walk around freely in games set in a realistic environment. See below.
- Obnoxious or really annoying characters nobody would want to have anything to do with IRL, yet are part of the game's main clique.
Any game that has multiple character paths is at least partly a social interaction "simulation", and why do *I* have to sometimes do ridiculous stuff just to be liked, but they can get on everybody's nerves all the time and not get kicked out of the group?
That's not to say I don't want any comedic elements in my games. Iliked accepted Liliana from Princess Waltz because she was just like that when she was new and people reacted accordingly. Okuhiko from Never7 is just an unlikable playboy and part of the group for a reason, as well as kind of an antagonist.
Kenji from Katawa Shoujo on the other hand doesn't belong in a school for disabled students, he belongs in psychiatric care. He's clearly meant as comic relief, but I couldn't help but clench my teeth and wait for his scene to be over whenever he appeared. He adds nothing to the story, is clearly mentally ill and I wouldn't have missed him more than Jar Jar Binks.
Also, when stuff happens that I know a lot about for whatever reason and that is depicted completely wrong. Kind of the same as with the jousting above (most people won't have a problem with it though as almost nobody realizes how dangerous it really was or is). On the other hand, I LOVE it when a game (or series) has a topic that I am very familiar with and gets it right.
- "Let's have a contest who cooks better to see who gets to marry him!"
- Going from "meh" to "I love you so much" in two days - although this is mostly any game's short length's fault.
- Characters that could never walk around freely in games set in a realistic environment. See below.
- Obnoxious or really annoying characters nobody would want to have anything to do with IRL, yet are part of the game's main clique.
Any game that has multiple character paths is at least partly a social interaction "simulation", and why do *I* have to sometimes do ridiculous stuff just to be liked, but they can get on everybody's nerves all the time and not get kicked out of the group?
That's not to say I don't want any comedic elements in my games. I
Kenji from Katawa Shoujo on the other hand doesn't belong in a school for disabled students, he belongs in psychiatric care. He's clearly meant as comic relief, but I couldn't help but clench my teeth and wait for his scene to be over whenever he appeared. He adds nothing to the story, is clearly mentally ill and I wouldn't have missed him more than Jar Jar Binks.
Also, when stuff happens that I know a lot about for whatever reason and that is depicted completely wrong. Kind of the same as with the jousting above (most people won't have a problem with it though as almost nobody realizes how dangerous it really was or is). On the other hand, I LOVE it when a game (or series) has a topic that I am very familiar with and gets it right.
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Re: What Breaks Your Immersion?
-Poor translation.
^ My biggest issue with this isn't the grammar itself but rather the tone. People never sound their age. Everyone talks like a literature professor because the translators don't understand the slang and casual language that would be used by them. That seriously breaks my immersion.
-Super busy / overtly fancy textboxes (especially with badly chosen fonts and non-justified or non-centered text).
^ People go a little too wild for my taste with their textboxes. I'm here to read your amazing story - not to gawk at your "super fabu" GUI. I frankly don't care what your GUI looks like. That doesn't affect the game. I'd rather have the default Ren'Py textbox than one that's really busy with a bunch of unnecessary buttons getting in the way of it. I also don't appreciate it when designers go out of their way to have those fancy graphics but can't be bothered to justify or center their text. It's lazy, imo.
Pretty graphics can be done tastefully without being conservative, but an effort should be made to keep 'em functionally unobtrusive.
-Badly timed sounds.
^ Basically when voice acting talks ahead of the actual dialogue box (or about something different altogether) or when music lags when changing between scenes. This also applies to sound affects that happen before or after the point where they should have. When these glitches occur, it's like trying to watch subbed anime when the subtitles get messed up and you're reading two scenes ahead; it makes getting immersed in the first place difficult - nevermind staying immersed.
-Art and writing disagreements.
^ Gotta agree with OP there.
-Minimal dialogue decisions (when it's not a KN or stat-builder).
^ Either have them or don't. If you have them, don't make it one decision every half hour, and don't let the protagonist make choices without the player just so you can make the story go how you want it to go. It's gross.
-Dialogue choices outside the dialogue box.
^ This is a personal preference. I find having to go from reading at the bottom of the screen to the middle just to make a decision very disorientating and immersion-breaking. It's probably the biggest issue I have with games made in Ren'Py. I want my decisions where my dialogue is instead of having to waste time getting comfortable reading on different areas of the screen between choices. Most videogames follow this format; I don't get why so many VNs choose not to.
^ My biggest issue with this isn't the grammar itself but rather the tone. People never sound their age. Everyone talks like a literature professor because the translators don't understand the slang and casual language that would be used by them. That seriously breaks my immersion.
-Super busy / overtly fancy textboxes (especially with badly chosen fonts and non-justified or non-centered text).
^ People go a little too wild for my taste with their textboxes. I'm here to read your amazing story - not to gawk at your "super fabu" GUI. I frankly don't care what your GUI looks like. That doesn't affect the game. I'd rather have the default Ren'Py textbox than one that's really busy with a bunch of unnecessary buttons getting in the way of it. I also don't appreciate it when designers go out of their way to have those fancy graphics but can't be bothered to justify or center their text. It's lazy, imo.
Pretty graphics can be done tastefully without being conservative, but an effort should be made to keep 'em functionally unobtrusive.
-Badly timed sounds.
^ Basically when voice acting talks ahead of the actual dialogue box (or about something different altogether) or when music lags when changing between scenes. This also applies to sound affects that happen before or after the point where they should have. When these glitches occur, it's like trying to watch subbed anime when the subtitles get messed up and you're reading two scenes ahead; it makes getting immersed in the first place difficult - nevermind staying immersed.
-Art and writing disagreements.
^ Gotta agree with OP there.
-Minimal dialogue decisions (when it's not a KN or stat-builder).
^ Either have them or don't. If you have them, don't make it one decision every half hour, and don't let the protagonist make choices without the player just so you can make the story go how you want it to go. It's gross.
-Dialogue choices outside the dialogue box.
^ This is a personal preference. I find having to go from reading at the bottom of the screen to the middle just to make a decision very disorientating and immersion-breaking. It's probably the biggest issue I have with games made in Ren'Py. I want my decisions where my dialogue is instead of having to waste time getting comfortable reading on different areas of the screen between choices. Most videogames follow this format; I don't get why so many VNs choose not to.
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Re: What Breaks Your Immersion?
Anything that keeps me from focusing on the text at hand is a big no-no. Even overly obnoxious character or background art can do this to me.
Also, having to button mash when trying to skip through text I've seen a million times annoys me. This is generally a personal issue, but I find that many of the built in "skip read" speeds just aren't fast for me or end up skipping new text anyways.
Also, having to button mash when trying to skip through text I've seen a million times annoys me. This is generally a personal issue, but I find that many of the built in "skip read" speeds just aren't fast for me or end up skipping new text anyways.
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