Present vs Past Tense, Narration vs Graphic

[Ernestalice15]

I couldn't find this kind of topic here, yet I've seen that sometimes people were using their preference in this matter to give opinion about story. So, I kind of wondered, how many people will choose which.

This is just a pure question, that won't really affect much on my writing nor other's. However, I do hope that I (and perhaps others) can picture the market while I'm writing, rather than finding myself doubting over and over again about the same problem.

1. Many English literature, mostly in novel I read, they are using Past Tense when it comes to narration. I did the same, but my friends told me that it's strange if it's used in VN, because they rarely saw that case. Well, not to mention that Hunger Games is using Present Tense, too, so I tried to write in Present Tense, at the beginning, somehow I felt strange, but I'm used to it now. However, I found that some people who are used to Past Tense English novel don't like Present Tense (some say that using Present Tense is wrong).

So, I want to know, which do you prefer to read, and will you read a story that uses the opposite form?

2. As we all know, VNs are using visuals to approach the players, so that some situation are much more interesting to see, than to have a bunch of text you have to read (especially when it comes to difficult vocabularies). However, VNs do still use narration much more than an RPG, most likely because they lack of animation. Not only gestures, some VNs are still using narration (plus graphic) to explain character expression, especially when it comes to Narrator's opinion about it (in First Person POV case).

So, do you prefer details, or if it's not too significant, you prefer not to read it?

[plainviewer]

This is a case-by-case question. Everyone will have their preferences, and one isn't superior to the other, no more than a genre of music.

A possible reason why some readers view present tense as 'strange,' is because we tend to think in the past tense. Not all, and arguably not many, but some still do. Add to that, the majority of their literature is also probably written in past tense. So when reading present tense, they're not used to it. And the same applies on the contrary, for those preferring present tense.

The preference should be your own, not the targeted readers' (unless for some reason, your story requires a specific tense). If you write in a tense you're unfamiliar with, it creates unnecessary complications and mistakes.

I can personally read either tense, so long as it remains consistent.

My viewpoint on narration vs graphic, is there should be a certain balance to it. Not all described images will have a picture to match, that's what animation or comics are for. To me, some images are better described than shown, making use of your imagination. The only question is whether the writer possesses the required narrative abilities; subtle factors often contribute to a successful description.

Other images, like major backgrounds, are better shown than described; freeing up narration for images that require more description rather than mere display.

I see it this way: graphics set the stage--or the frame, if you prefer--allowing your narration to focus more on the contents within. Would you rather I thoroughly describe a city, or just show you an image, and describe what the characters are doing in it?

My only complaint is when some writers describe what I can already see in the image. Rather than showcase the less obvious details, they highlight what's already displayed, and it feels redundant.

[Cith]

A possible reason why some readers view present tense as 'strange,' is because we tend to think in the past tense. Not all, and arguably not many, but some still do. Add to that, the majority of their literature is also probably written in past tense. So when reading present tense, they're not used to it. And the same applies on the contrary, for those preferring present tense.

Another possible reason is when we sit down with a book we feel like we are being told a story by the narrator (who is not always named.) Some people find it hard to reconcile being told a story (implying the narrator is retelling events which happened in the past) with the use of present tense. That being said it definitely has its advantages (as well as disadvantages.)

[kitsubasa]

The main reason why present tense is favoured in visual novels (as well as gaming as a whole) is because gaming is a present-tense medium; as opposed to film and novels which are past-tense.

What this means is that, because of player interaction, the story is always being created as you play it. If you pick up a book and read it in the intended page order, the story will be exactly the same every time-- it was fixed when it was written. If you watch a movie, the story will be the same every time-- it was fixed when the director filmed it. The only way these forms can be altered is if you watch/read the scenes out of order, in which case you're not consuming them as intended, and the story may be lost on you or register with you in the wrong way.

Games, by definition, are designed so that they'll be different every time. Even a linear game can be played in different ways-- for example, in a game like Dear Esther, by all rights a game with very little interactivity, you can still opt to walk down different paths and thus see different things. These deviations are designed into the experience.

Because the whole point of a game is 'you interact with a series of systems, they show you responses', we expect the responses to be real-time, thus we expect them to be phrased to us in real time. So in a visual novel (or other text-heavy game) we naturally want to read present tense. Past tense implies our interactions were preset, which undermines the sensation of interactivity. Of course, present tense doesn't have to be used in every game, some games work well in past tense for one reason or another... it's just the one that lends itself best to the medium.

tl;dr when people play visual novels they're making choices right now, so it feels right for the writing to reflect things happening right now. : )

[CSV]

I more often than not prefer past tense to present tense, but I do feel they can both be used well. It could depend on what sort of story you are trying to tell with your visual novel - present tense would work great for an action story or an adventure game, but maybe past tense would be better for a drama/tragedy or fairytale feel, and so on.
But, again, both can be done well and I wouldn't mind either one.

As for details on description... If the sprite is visible I really don't need a physical description of the character. Well, in theory that is true, but it is still a visual novel and I find that some description helps the consistency of the written story. Just maybe don't go overboard with it, you know? Instead of providing a full description of a character's looks and clothing, or of the setting, use something very simple - "a small boy with purple hair", "a large but poorly-lit house" - and then let the images do the rest.
Exception if it is something not shown in the image itself, such as movement or a key detail, like an important item in the setting that is either not drawn or blends too much into the background graphics.

In conclusion: a.) Both present or past tense can be done well and suitable; and b.) Some description is good, particularly if it elaborates on the visuals, but don't push it too far.

Of course, this is just my personal opinion and preference. =)

[Ernestalice15]

This is a case-by-case question. Everyone will have their preferences, and one isn't superior to the other, no more than a genre of music.

A possible reason why some readers view present tense as 'strange,' is because we tend to think in the past tense. Not all, and arguably not many, but some still do. Add to that, the majority of their literature is also probably written in past tense. So when reading present tense, they're not used to it. And the same applies on the contrary, for those preferring present tense.

The preference should be your own, not the targeted readers' (unless for some reason, your story requires a specific tense). If you write in a tense you're unfamiliar with, it creates unnecessary complications and mistakes.

I can personally read either tense, so long as it remains consistent.

I agree with this. After you mentioned about it, I realized that perhaps I did some mistakes with my writing due to using a tense I'm not really accustomed to use. However, on the other hand, it's a good learning for me, and I think sooner or later I have to do it anyway. So, I think I'll try to do my best on that, while trying to be consistent enough. Thanks for reminding

I see it this way: graphics set the stage--or the frame, if you prefer--allowing your narration to focus more on the contents within. Would you rather I thoroughly describe a city, or just show you an image, and describe what the characters are doing in it?

My only complaint is when some writers describe what I can already see in the image. Rather than showcase the less obvious details, they highlight what's already displayed, and it feels redundant.

Hmm, I can understand why people usually don't like to have what they can see on image described again in a bunch of text. However, actually I don't really mind if it's described in such way that it will be felt different than the image, and I think arranging the description so it's not repeating the same 'feeling' as the image, is the most difficult part.

For example, there is an image of city, full of people, and it was noon. If the description is the same as I wrote earlier, then yes, I can't accept that, too. But, if it's : The city I was born, it has never been as lively as now, since it's full of people, gathered to see the new princess... and so on, then this is what I can accept as information 'supported' by an image. I wonder if this is what you meant by 'focus more on the contents within'?

Another possible reason is when we sit down with a book we feel like we are being told a story by the narrator (who is not always named.)

Yep, that's quite true. And I've read usual novel more than VN, so yeah, I'm more used to it, than Present Tense, but reading such novel like Hunger Games was enjoyable enough for me

when people play visual novels they're making choices right now, so it feels right for the writing to reflect things happening right now. : )

Fortunately, I'm using options, too, so yep, I guess using Present Tense is better than Past Tense. I felt that it's easier to read, too, since as you've said, it's happening right away, so it will make much more sense. However, what do you think for a Kinetic VN, where there is no option in it?

present tense would work great for an action story or an adventure game, but maybe past tense would be better for a drama/tragedy or fairytale feel, and so on.

Oh, unfortunately, it has both action and fairytale feel But not all of them, though.

If the sprite is visible I really don't need a physical description of the character. Well, in theory that is true, but it is still a visual novel and I find that some description helps the consistency of the written story. Just maybe don't go overboard with it, you know? Instead of providing a full description of a character's looks and clothing, or of the setting, use something very simple - "a small boy with purple hair", "a large but poorly-lit house" - and then let the images do the rest.
Exception if it is something not shown in the image itself, such as movement or a key detail, like an important item in the setting that is either not drawn or blends too much into the background graphics.

Same opinion here.

Thanks, guys. I think I can see the big picture of what people are thinking about this, and I'm glad that both side (tense and narration thing) is not really that hated after all.

[plainviewer]

For example, there is an image of city, full of people, and it was noon. If the description is the same as I wrote earlier, then yes, I can't accept that, too. But, if it's : The city I was born, it has never been as lively as now, since it's full of people, gathered to see the new princess... and so on, then this is what I can accept as information 'supported' by an image. I wonder if this is what you meant by 'focus more on the contents within'?

Yes, that's exactly it. If the description doesn't expand on what I can already see, then it feels redundant.

[trooper6]

Present vs. Past Tense I don't care. Whatever is chosen should be chosen intentionally and make sense in the context of the game.

As far as Narration vs. Graphics, let me quote a lyric form Rebecca Mayes's song "The Infuriating and Alluring Case of Mr. Kyle Hyde" which is also a review of Hotel Dusk.

"If I wanted to read a book, I'd read a book with slightly better dialogue and plot
If i wanted to watch a film noir, I watch a film noir with slightly better cinematography
If I wanted to play a game, I'd play a game...if you get my meaning..."

Please note, I'm not talking about Kinetic Novels without graphics. Though I generally don't read KNs without graphics...because if I wanted to read a book, I'd read a book with slightly better dialogue and plot.

So, in my opinion, VNs are not prose novels. They are their own medium. And I have generally found that people who go into VNs thinking they are basically slightly easier novels tend to write crappy VNs. Graphic Novels are also not prose novels. If you understand your medium who create *for* that medium. I don't know how many AAA video games I've played where the game makers hired some big name film composer to create the music for the game and then the music doesn't work outside of cutscenes and title screens because those composers don't realize that interactivity changes how you have to compose the music.

I want to read a VN by someone who has really thought about the fact that this is a VN and not a prose novel. I want my writers to be thinking about other storytelling media and seeing what might be relevant: table top RPGs, comic books, plays, other video game genres, whatever! I want my creator to think about the VN...what it means to have a medium that has graphics and sound and movement and interactivity.

The minute I see a sprite that is looking angry and read text that says, "I am so mad at you!" he said angrily--I know that creator has not thought about the VN as a unique artistic medium and I am very, very likely to stop reading right there.

This is not to say that VNs can't be literary. They certainly can. But they would be literary within the context of being VNs.

[ketskari]

It's not the tense or the person, but how it's used for me. These are my associations with first person and tense. I include the person because my association changes quite a bit with third person, but...

First person, present tense:
---Chatty narrators, or narrators with strong voices
---Active, happening now
---Contemporary (Often experimental or YA fiction, often also a contemporary setting)
---Narrator talks to the reader about what's happening, ("I think I go to the strangest school on the East Coast.")
---Narrow view (reader only sees through the narrator's eyes, so reader only knows what the narrator knows--good for narrative surprises/twists)

First person, past tense:
---Narrators with strong voices, but less chatty
---Diaries, epistolary novels
---Narrator talks about what they did, not necessarily speaking to the reader ("Sometimes I felt like I went to the strangest school on the East Coast.")
---Narrow view (same as first person, present tense)

Pretty much the only reason I use third person is due to multiple POV (third person has a wide view--I could even make the world a character and give it a POV if I wanted). I use past tense in part because I have a historical setting--and because past tense is traditional.

If I were to write a teen lit story taking place today, or an action story taking place today or in a futuristic story, I would seriously consider using first person and present tense. To me, it seems sensible that these things would go together. So of course I think it's strange when fairy tale retellings are written in present tense. Oddly, it's done, but to me it doesn't make thematic sense. Unless the fairy tale takes place during the modern day, and the ones I'm thinking of... don't.

Conversely, because past tense is so default, it wouldn't bother me for a sci-fi to be written in past tense. It's present tense that is unusual and draws attention--except perhaps within visual novels, but also many of these stories have contemporary settings with youthful (teenage) characters.

That's how and why I'd choose, anyway.

---

Art assets in a visual novel take on the role that background detail takes on in a novel. While watching other people play my VNs (it's really useful to have non-gamer friends play--they're good at catching design problems), I've noticed that the reader won't look at the picture unless it's pointed it out:

If I have a character say "I hate those cabinets," the reader will look at the cabinets. And if I say "Mary smiled," then the reader will look at the character art to see the smile. If the character art doesn't match the description, the reader will complain. Beyond a glance at the character/background art when it is first introduced, most readers will pay attention only to the text. (If you want to introduce a scene and give the reader an opportunity to study it, show the background art, and either pan over it or give it a half second or so before displaying text.)

While explaining the background art would be redundant ("it was a country kitchen,") I think it's useful to expand on that description in way that gives it meaning ("it was my favorite room in the house").

It's important to establish that description (and the art assets in a VN) is meaningful in some way. In a novel, description is established as meaningful when characters feel or think something about it ("I hated those cabinets"), or when it's implied that it's important to the story ("I was pretty sure that that lion in the tapestry had moved."). So it is with background art. Unless the characters think or feel something about the background or will be able to use the background in some way later on in the story, it will just be background and perform only a functional role--essentially the visual novel equivalent of saying "Mary was in her kitchen".

And for me... I just think it can go further than that.

[Ernestalice15]

So, in my opinion, VNs are not prose novels. They are their own medium. And I have generally found that people who go into VNs thinking they are basically slightly easier novels tend to write crappy VNs. Graphic Novels are also not prose novels. If you understand your medium who create *for* that medium. I don't know how many AAA video games I've played where the game makers hired some big name film composer to create the music for the game and then the music doesn't work outside of cutscenes and title screens because those composers don't realize that interactivity changes how you have to compose the music.

I want to read a VN by someone who has really thought about the fact that this is a VN and not a prose novel. I want my writers to be thinking about other storytelling media and seeing what might be relevant: table top RPGs, comic books, plays, other video game genres, whatever! I want my creator to think about the VN...what it means to have a medium that has graphics and sound and movement and interactivity.

The minute I see a sprite that is looking angry and read text that says, "I am so mad at you!" he said angrily--I know that creator has not thought about the VN as a unique artistic medium and I am very, very likely to stop reading right there.

This is not to say that VNs can't be literary. They certainly can. But they would be literary within the context of being VNs.

I can understand what you mean. Besides, I don't think it's a proper thing to input "he said" or something like that in VN where we have already known who says what. And I think, the trick is to write the story in a script format for a VN, not in prose novel style like that. I've done prose novel style first before going to VN style, so I know that some sentences can't be used in both style. However, personally, I can't like something that is not descriptive enough as I want it to be. I read some VNs like that, using less description, and I didn't have any description at all for a character whose image didn't appear on screen. Even if I could use my imagination and the dialogue could perhaps express what the character should look like, but I could lose my interest for the character just because of that.

First person, present tense:
---Chatty narrators, or narrators with strong voices
---Active, happening now
---Contemporary (Often experimental or YA fiction, often also a contemporary setting)
---Narrator talks to the reader about what's happening, ("I think I go to the strangest school on the East Coast.")
---Narrow view (reader only sees through the narrator's eyes, so reader only knows what the narrator knows--good for narrative surprises/twists)

First person, past tense:
---Narrators with strong voices, but less chatty
---Diaries, epistolary novels
---Narrator talks about what they did, not necessarily speaking to the reader ("Sometimes I felt like I went to the strangest school on the East Coast.")
---Narrow view (same as first person, present tense)

Thank you for clarifying the differences. I think it will be useful and quite easy to understand.

Art assets in a visual novel take on the role that background detail takes on in a novel. While watching other people play my VNs (it's really useful to have non-gamer friends play--they're good at catching design problems), I've noticed that the reader won't look at the picture unless it's pointed it out:

Wow, I think you're right. Who wants to see the detail of background anyway, except that the game does some guide for players to do that (such as, "Wait a minute. I think there's something strange here. Something is missing in this room..."). I can pay more attention to character's expression, though. I don't think it's something that so easy to miss.

[LeonDaydreamer]

1. ....However, I found that some people who are used to Past Tense English novel don't like Present Tense (some say that using Present Tense is wrong). So, I want to know, which do you prefer to read, and will you read a story that uses the opposite form?

I don't mind either one if it's done well, but when reading a novel past tense feels more natural, since you are reading a record of something that's happened. At any rate, it's more natural to listen to a character repeat a story than it is for them to narrate themselves and the things around them in real-time. A visual novel, on the other hand is happening as you go along, so it's more receptive to present tense.

In my writing I usually use past tense, but I'll occasionally go back and forth to present tense. It might sound odd, but I like to make a distinction between something that just happened and something that is happening right this moment. Some people might see it as a mistake, though.

2. As we all know, VNs are using visuals to approach the players, so that some situation are much more interesting to see, than to have a bunch of text you have to read... So, do you prefer details, or if it's not too significant, you prefer not to read it?

Most people would probably rather see a nice illustration capturing what you want to say. At the same time, an illustration is absolute. If you have a piece of narrative, you can get really creative with it and it's very subjective, anyone reading will probably draw an even better image of it in their mind (assuming they're willing to read it all). So it's a bit of a compromise. If you have my attention, I'm happy to get into the details, but I'd worry some people might not have the patience for it and are really looking forward to seeing that next action illustration. I wouldn't let that dissuade you though, I'd say do it the way that works best for your story, since you get a different experience either way.

[Mad Harlequin]

I can understand what you mean. Besides, I don't think it's a proper thing to input "he said" or something like that in VN where we have already known who says what.

I don't think this is an absolute. I'm yet not well-versed in Ren'Py coding, so I don't know how difficult it is to construct a narrative of this type in the program, but there are many stories in which a narrator recalls a past conversation while taking time to interject.

I don't mind either one if it's done well, but when reading a novel past tense feels more natural, since you are reading a record of something that's happened. At any rate, it's more natural to listen to a character repeat a story than it is for them to narrate themselves and the things around them in real-time.

Have you read Faulkner's The Sound and the Fury? Benny does nothing but exist in the present tense. If his sections were written in the past tense, they would suggest a presence of mind that he does not have. Anyway, my point is that the use of past tense is more widespread, but it's not necessarily more or less natural than present tense. Whether it is or isn't depends on the circumstances of the story. (Somebody's got to give present tense a fair shake.)