The quagmire of the harem protagonist

[Kailoto]

This is another one of those thoughts that I had, and since I liked the discussions that the previous ones had, I figured I would go ahead and post it. It's quite the read though, so I don't know if anyone has the time for it. XD

Now, I don't know about you, but I've come to be dissatisfied with harem stories of late. I like them, in concept, and used to watch a lot of them (still do.) But over the years I've gradually become disenfranchised with the harem setting. And while some people may argue that harem-type stories are inherently flawed, I stand by the notion that they can be done well - it's just that the execution is usually wrong.

The problem I've noticed with most harem settings is that they're all boring and predictable. Yeah, that man-hating girl there will end up falling for the male lead. Oh, I bet that aloof delinquent will have a soft spot for the female lead. And it's not just because "every character of the opposite gender falls for the protagonist." No, that alone is not a problem. The real problem is that it happens simply because it's a harem setting, and the characters have to do so. It feels scripted, like when something occurs that only serves to progress the plot.

And at the root of all of this is the protagonist himself. (I'll assume a male lead for simplicity's sake.) More often than not, he is exceedingly plain, indifferent, and unintentional in his romantic endeavors. He never really pursues any of the females; they just sort of fall for him on their own, and then put up with his noncommittal attitude. He's often passive, influencing the plot only when it's necessary, and otherwise having everything happen to him. And he's also usually unnaturally dense.

It's such a bad character type that you have to wonder why it's so ubiquitous. It's just speculation on my part, but I think the reason why harem protagonists are written this way is because there's very few ways to write them at all. At least, ways that are acceptable.

Let me explain. One of the things I always complain about is how passive harem protagonists are. If any average person ended up being the object of affection for multiple people, they would take at least some advantage of the situation, and if they didn't, they'd probably hate all the attention and actively avoid it. But the alternatives to ambivalence would ruin other aspects of the character: an aggressive male lead would just be a womanizing jerk, and a misanthropic harem protagonist isn't a harem protagonist in the first place. So the writers side with the boring-but-safe option of the passive protagonist.

And it's important to acknowledge that the whole idea of a harem is fantasy in and of itself. It's not something that would ever really happen in real life except in the most extraordinary of circumstances, so there's a certain amount of belief that has to be suspended. Having a dense, plain, and unromantic male or female lead just makes that disbelief even harder to suspend, which is why I start to lose interest in those types of stories.

I did say earlier that I think it's possible to do right, however, and I stand by that claim. There's been a few times, albeit rarely, when the genre has pulled through for me, and they always did so by doing something different with the formula.

My first example is Oresama Teacher. The protagonist of that manga, Kurosaki Mafuyu, is a freakin' amazing protagonist - she's strong and active but also flawed in many ways, and when someone falls in love with her, it's usually because of her charisma and charm. It also takes the meaning of a harem to a whole new level, as she converts people of both genders with her alter egos and while she's crossdressing. Izumi-sensei understands that a harem is unrealistic, and instead of fighting it, she runs with it and the manga is so much better because of it.

The second exhibit is The World God Only Knows. TWGOK had an interesting solution to the harem protagonist problem that utilized a loophole of sorts. Keima is what would be considered an "active" harem protagonist - he actively tries to make each of the girls fall for him, and when they do, it's as a result of his actions. The manga sidestepped the pitfall of Keima becoming a womanizing jerk because he also happens to hate what he's doing, and only does so because his life is on the line. It made him much more interesting as a character and oddly enough feels more realistic than a typical male lead, because it's easier to suspend disbelief. Unfortunately it's a solution specific only to his exact character type and setting.

Anyways, I was wondering what you all thought about the subject. Do you see the same problems with harem settings? Any other examples of stories that subvert this?

[Mad Harlequin]

I was wondering what you all thought about the subject. Do you see the same problems with harem settings?

Yes. I generally don't like harem stories for the reasons you've listed, and instead prefer stories that satirize those tropes. Very insightful post, by the way.

[RotGtIE]

The protagonist of a harem-based VN or romance plot in general is the most dangerous and destructive character, and yet the importance of the protagonist's character is apparently overlooked with regularity out of the fear of creating a protagonist who cannot act as a self-insert for the audience and also due to the enormous influence placed on their potential romantic interests. One terrible romanceable character can only ruin as much of a story as is involved in their plot arc, but a terrible protagonist can ruin the entire story and even the routes and arcs of very likable characters.

Game Arts learned this the hard way when they made Lunar: The Silver Star Story, and they applied this lesson to the sequel, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue. In the first game, they made Alex, a quiet but not completely silent protagonist whose purpose was obviously to act as a self-insert for the player. But Lunar was a very different sort of game from the typical JRPGs that preceded it, for an unexpected reason: the enormous depth of the script. Lunar was made when, for the first time, JRPGs were not restricted by memory constraints in their writing, but rather by the capacity of their writers. Because of this, all of the characters, including no-name NPC townsfolk, were able to gain large amounts of stunningly detailed dialogue, and the characters were able to banter and develop themselves over any little thing that crossed their paths.

The effect on this was profound, especially on Alex; in a world where all of the players could be held under a magnifying glass by the player, the act of not speaking, or of speaking very little, was in and of itself a part of a character in stark contrast with all of the other inhabitants of the world. Rather than making Alex seem out of place among a crowd of chatterboxes, this defined Alex's character. Previously, a character's silence in a JRPG could be attributed to the lack of a need to spell out what the player meant to say in their stead, and the bare-bones level of writing involved in every other character made a silent protagonist fit right in. But since nobody was constrained by this in Lunar, it made Alex's quiet nature meaningful, and as a result, Game Arts had unintentionally created a character who was definitively quiet in the face of a great deal of speaking going on. When Game Arts designed Hiro for the next game, they took this into account and developed his character enough that he would not stand out among the cast as being unusually non-talkative around them. It was a tougher balancing act, but the result was a better protagonist - not detract from Alex; there's certainly nothing wrong with being a reserved person, but it obviously wasn't the intent to make him that way.

Given the success of VNs whose protagonists have fleshed out characters, I would say that the act of deliberately creating a poorly developed protagonist in the hope of making them a good self-insert for the player is at best an inability to see these successes, and at worst a cynical attempt to put a low degree of effort into a product. Developed protagonists include Fate/Stay Night's Shirou,

who is maddened by a persistent case of survivor's guilt,

G-Senjou no Maou's Kyousuke,

who is driven to an obsession with obtaining money at all costs,

and Rance of his own series,

whose cavalier attitude and behavior toward women and sex is legendary.

Even Planetarian's Junker,

notable for his defeatism and his subsequent interest in escapism,

and Kanon's Yuuichi,

notable for his cutting wit and playful prank-playing behavior,

contribute greatly to their own stories by not backing down and refusing to be characters in their own stories. It is no accident that the most well-known VN titles include protagonists whose characters are too well-developed for them to be dismissed as blank-slate self-insert protagonists.

The important thing that gets missed is that a character who is relatable is not necessarily going to be one who must absolutely mirror the audience. That's the wonderful thing about relatability; the audience is not inseparable from their own identity to the degree that they cannot sympathize or empathize with any given character.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

And at the root of all of this is the protagonist himself. (I'll assume a male lead for simplicity's sake.) More often than not, he is exceedingly plain, indifferent, and unintentional in his romantic endeavors. He never really pursues any of the females; they just sort of fall for him on their own, and then put up with his noncommittal attitude. He's often passive....

If any average person ended up being the object of affection for multiple people, they would take at least some advantage of the situation, and if they didn't, they'd probably hate all the attention and actively avoid it. But the alternatives to ambivalence would ruin other aspects of the character: an aggressive male lead would just be a womanizing jerk, and a misanthropic harem protagonist isn't a harem protagonist in the first place. So the writers side with the boring-but-safe option of the passive protagonist.

Well, yes.

The protagonist of a harem story does not pursue the girls because of CHARACTER SYMPATHY. This is influenced by real life social constructs of the audience. In real life, we don't look favorably upon people that pursue multiple sexual partners at the same time, because that tends to devastate feelings and emotions in the involved parties.

This is especially important to avoid in a harem story, because the audience gets to know the girls being pursued. Purposefully pursuing them all makes the protagonist very unsympathetic and yes, a womanizing jerk who is definitely objectifying women.

The only way to keep character sympathy and ironically make the protagonist WORTHY of being with all those girls is if he does NOT want them. The protagonist remains sympathetic by having him try to do the moral thing constantly and try to AVOID being with all the girls. When the girls all eventually force themselves on him, it becomes THEIR choice, not HIS, and so the protagonist can remain blameless. And he HAS to be non-committal or suddenly he is with ONE girl, and every other interaction he has with the other girls is cheating, and makes him unsympathetic.

The author must show that the protagonist is WORTHY of all these girls, and if the protagonist is at all lecherous, perverted, or oriented towards sexual goals, that's impossible.

A harem story needs some drama and conflict, and that is usually done by giving the protagonist a problem - he's being pursued by all these girls and doesn't want to be! (If he WANTS to be pursued by all these girls, then suddenly you have no conflict - see?)

Solve the issue of character sympathy, and have an active protagonist that pursues the girls and gets them, and suddenly you are in serious danger of having a Mary Sue on your hands. There are long-standing reasons for everything in the harem genre.

[HiddenCreature]

Are we talking about stories where the protagonist has multiple romance options, or actually ends up being with more than one partner?

If it's the latter, then that kind of story can only be so good. Unless you comically show the obstacles of such a goal, or are trying to make a point about morality, all you're left with is a story about fulfilling some fantasy the protagonist's personality could never realistically fulfill. I've seen real guys that have the social skills to successfully ask many women out (just a date, not necessarily taking them home) and I've never seen a protagonist in a harem that remotely resembled them. My guess is because the writers have no idea how to do so themselves (regardless if they even wanted to) and so, just make things up that don't sound realistic.

Now, a story where you can choose between multiple partners, like a basic dating game. My problem is it feels too one-sided and unrealistic. Cater to a girl by knowing all her trivia, buying gifts, or simply picking that game's one major decision that gives you her story arc, and you have the girl.

How often do you see the girl approaching you (after you've gotten to know the character)? And assuming it's not the game where you need X amount of affection points, how often can the character reject you, based on your previous actions?

Writers of this type of story don't tend to trek those areas. One, because no matter how good the story, they'll step on some toes, so they don't care about the ideas enough for that risk.

A harem that's done realistically and right would be an emotional roller coaster, and a story to remember. But I think when the average writer thinks, "I'll write a harem," it's just fan service or wish-fulfillment.

I respect the medium of anime and manga, but not what's notoriously done with it. It shows how some creators view their fans: people who will like them more if they show lewd material, which insults my intelligence.

In short, I've never seen a harem story I liked, or liked the concept of, because it wasn't what I was looking for (something that stayed true to life).

[wendybirdx]

I think my biggest problem with harem stories is precisely something you pointed out - ambivalence isn't a realistic reaction.

There's a reason this setting is a fantasy that attracts many people, so, as you mentioned, it would be realistic to see sexual interest or avoidance, as well as a sense of apprehensiveness that should drive the love interests away. The reason why TWOGK sounds like a good setup to me (from the short summary you've given, I haven't read it) is because his relatively restricted interaction with the characters (relative to the "get all the girls" extreme we could realistically expect) has a reason. I guess that's what bothers me, that it's a choice that lacks reason. Or rather, the reason, as LateWhiteRabbit mentioned, is to have a reaction from the reader, but disconsiders the need for the character's motive if they're choosing to simply accept a situation that overwhelms them with attention and the need to respond to their flirtations.

I haven't read too many harem stories myself, but I think there are good ways to push it beyond the predictable and unrealistic, even if the assumption of many beautiful women chasing one plain, uninterested guy is a bit unrealistic in itself. (I'll also be assuming a male lead in a harem of women, just so I won't constantly have to use slashes (male/female lead, women/men).) I'd find it interesting if the character does like the attention at first, and loves the prospect of choosing one beautiful woman amongst many, but eventually discovers great flaws about all of them (big ones, like past crimes or strange obsessions) and has to find his way home without shifting too radically from his previous attitude. (Otherwise, the one who poisoned her husband for his money or the incredibly possessive one could snap, right?)

Or maybe he's there because one of them has valuable information, and he must retrieve it in a limited time frame. But, for reasons of conscience or because of a commitment, he doesn't want to simply take them all to bed to extract their secrets, but wants to analyze his options and see who is most likely to have the information he needs. Meanwhile, the women want to distract him so he leaves before he can discover whatever one of them hiding. (After all, I'd think it more likely for women who live together to be loyal and want to protect one another if they're at risk.)

In general, my problem with harem stories isn't that the setting is unrealistic. The whole point of stories with magic, sci-fi elements, steampunk, is to dive into a different setting. I just want the characters to be realistic to a basic degree. I want them to have motives, values, a personality. Even if they're a bit bland and unmotivated as a person, they react to situations according to that. A character who doesn't care about social involvement or the search for pleasure is very unlikely to allow such flirtation, since it calls for a response very strongly. So yes, it can be pulled off, just not while treating the lead character as a means to an end (which would be to play out this situation without his interference as a moral shame or, on the other extreme, an obstacle).

[Kuiper]

This post I made in a different forum speaks some to the point about "bland" protagonists--most harem protagonists tend to be designed as "self insert" characters for the audience, and by necessity tend to be as featureless and plain as possible. However, this kind of character design seems to bypass the real issue, which is character sympathy--just because a character is designed to be like "me" (the audience) doesn't mean I'm going to find them sympathetic, and some of the best stories are those that make me sympathize with characters who are nothing like me. (In fact, one of the things I love about storytelling media is that it allows me to see the world through the eyes of people who lead lives very different from my own.)

Are we talking about stories where the protagonist has multiple romance options, or actually ends up being with more than one partner?

I think this is an important distinction to make. Actual harems aren't actually that common in romance visual novels. Most bishoujo game or otome game protagonists tend to be monogamous. In fact, the fact that romance games support player choice is what allows them to include multiple romantic interests without all the trappings that harem anime and manga are often forced into.

The point becomes a bit more confused by the fact that the terms "romance visual novel" (ren'ai) and "dating sim" tend to be used interchangeably, when they are usually very different in their construction. Romance visual novels tend to be divided into "routes" which split fairly early, while dating sims usually allow the player to court multiple characters simultaneously, usually up until the player chooses (or is assigned) an "ending" based on how many affection points they've managed to accumulate. This is consistent with the general notion that visual novels tend to focus more on delivering an authored story (focus on bespoke content), while dating sims place a greater emphasis on player choice (focus on systems and gameplay).

[gekiganwing]

If you're reading this and want to write some kind of harem story, read TVTropes' article on writing a harem series. It reminded me of several things...

1. Who is the point of view character? Is the person sympathetic? What makes them competent? Does anything make them compelling?
2. If you removed the harem lead from the story, what would the haremettes do? In other words, do they have lives of their own? Would they become friends? Would they become rivals about something other than a guy?
3a. What do the characters' parents think? Consider what would happen if they supported just one person in the love polygon. Or perhaps they want the situation to be resolved as soon as possible.
3b. Let's say the main character was part of a harem twenty or more years ago. Now they're watching their son or daughter go through something similar. What do they think about this?
4. Do you want to present the story as a comedy which doesn't have serious consequences? Do you want to create a drama where the characters are dealing with real world problems?
5. Does the story encourage readers to "ship" fictional characters? What if the characters are interested in each others' relationships, and they ship people in-universe?

Three comics to think about as a writer...

* Did you read at least some of Urusei Yatsura? If so, what did you think about it? The story was written about a decade before the Tenchi Muyo franchise began, and it predated Love Hina by almost two decades. In my opinion, the story sets up its main character Ataru as a pathetic loser in chapter one. His relationship with Lum occurs mostly due to luck. She obviously likes him... but he spends most of his time being antagonistic toward her, while still hoping that he'll get a harem someday. Despite all this, Ataru is not hopelessly flawed, and has a few good points. Most of the cast are petty people who have at least one obvious problem, but who also have some positive qualities.

* Did you read Ai Yori Aoshi? What did you think about it? In my opinion, the story sets up its official couple in the first few chapters, and does it rather well. A number of other girls are introduced as the story goes on. I thought that a lot of them had interesting motivations and conflicts. However, it seemed like everyone other than Aoi had 0.01% chance of having a lasting relationship with main character Kaoru. That said... do you want your main couple to be clear from the start? Should a rival or another girl seem like a plausible love interest? How long should the love triangle remain unresolved?

* Did you read Ouran Host Club? What did you like and dislike about it? It's a reverse harem story that's not taken too seriously, but at the same time, it can also be earnest. Main character Haruhi is an interesting individual with a personality. She seems amused by the antics around her, but I didn't think she was all that interested in finding a significant other. Though I could be wrong. Do you want your main character to be concerned about finding someone to love, should they be apathetic, or somewhere in between? Also, if your main character enters an unfamiliar world (Haruhi is a stranger in the upper-class school), what do they think of people who have different life experiences and points of view?

[Kailoto]

Given the success of VNs whose protagonists have fleshed out characters, I would say that the act of deliberately creating a poorly developed protagonist in the hope of making them a good self-insert for the player is at best an inability to see these successes, and at worst a cynical attempt to put a low degree of effort into a product.

Completely agree there. That's another thing that I've started to get burnt out on - shallow everyman characters in any setting - because it's a cheap way to try to create sympathy, and it doesn't work most of the time anyways. And everyman characters can have personalities and development; most of Key/Visual Art's works have this sort of protagonist, one who's pretty normal in most aspects but has cutting wit and an involved backstory that leads to internal conflicts.

A harem story needs some drama and conflict, and that is usually done by giving the protagonist a problem - he's being pursued by all these girls and doesn't want to be! (If he WANTS to be pursued by all these girls, then suddenly you have no conflict - see?)

Solve the issue of character sympathy, and have an active protagonist that pursues the girls and gets them, and suddenly you are in serious danger of having a Mary Sue on your hands. There are long-standing reasons for everything in the harem genre.

I get why it's done the way it is, but I can't help but feel it's unsustainable in the long run. After a while the flaws start to overtake the benefits, and the genre starts to lose its appeal. That's where I'm at right now - I still remember when a typical harem setting was enough for me, but I'm starting to get bogged down by all the problems it comes with. It's only exacerbated by the fact that there are other ways to add in conflict or sympathy, they just aren't as common and require thinking outside the box.

The reason why TWOGK sounds like a good setup to me (from the short summary you've given, I haven't read it) is because his relatively restricted interaction with the characters (relative to the "get all the girls" extreme we could realistically expect) has a reason. I guess that's what bothers me, that it's a choice that lacks reason.

I've heard from two different people who don't usually like harem or even romance anime - both female, although that's only tangentially related - say that for some reason, TWGOK was able to still be interesting for them. I'm pretty sure it has to do with what you're saying: Keima remains a likeable protagonist despite everything he does, and the setting gives all of his actions and interactions a meaning and a purpose. I'd recommend reading it (or watching the anime), as it's quite unique and plays a lot with the concepts of the disconnect between reality and dating sims, and is funny to boot.

Are we talking about stories where the protagonist has multiple romance options, or actually ends up being with more than one partner?

I think this is an important distinction to make. Actual harems aren't actually that common in romance visual novels. Most bishoujo game or otome game protagonists tend to be monogamous. In fact, the fact that romance games support player choice is what allows them to include multiple romantic interests without all the trappings that harem anime and manga are often forced into.

It's true; I was mostly writing this with manga and anime in mind, so stuff like Love Hina, where it's explicitly a harem setting, even if the protagonist does choose one of the love interests in the end... VNs with multiple romance options can have the same problems, but tend to be less pronounced. At worst the main character is flat and uninteresting, but in a VN there's at least the element of choice and pursuit that makes the story interesting; in a manga or anime, however, a poor main character is even less redeemable.

A good example of the difference between linear and interactive mediums would be Persona 4. The game is structured in such a way so that you can play as the type of protagonist you want to be, so he can be outgoing, withdrawn, quirky, indifferent, etc. When they adapted it into an anime, however, they chose specific character traits to give him, and he even got some character development in the final episode. It was a fantastic anime, and a good counterexample to all of those adaptations that stick with a shallow everyman.

* Did you read Ouran Host Club? What did you like and dislike about it? It's a reverse harem story that's not taken too seriously, but at the same time, it can also be earnest. Main character Haruhi is an interesting individual with a personality. She seems amused by the antics around her, but I didn't think she was all that interested in finding a significant other.

I liked Ouran High School Host Club, for many of the same reasons I liked Oresama Teacher - it's a funny series that doesn't take the harem aspect too seriously, and it features a protagonist with a well-defined personality and motives. Honestly I've found more harem stories that I've liked with female leads rather than male leads, and part of me wonders if it's because they tend to downplay any realism with the harem. So many male-oriented harem stories take the harem part so seriously, like they want you to really believe that this sort of thing could happen... it just ends up detracting from the experience, in my opinion.

[HiddenCreature]

To more specifically address your other concern (about bland protagonists), I think there are two kinds of writers that make them: the ones who do so out of fear of alienating an audience, and the ones that do so out of convenience.

It's like the mute/faceless protagonist. He's so transparent, anyone can identify with him. He's also easy to write because there's less content to add.

A bland protagonist isn't remotely interesting, only the things that happen to him. Rare that he ever makes things happen, but instead just reacts to events around him.

It's why I don't like writers that use silent protagonists in a game that claims to have a story. Link from Zelda is a famous mute. We don't like him personally, we like the story surrounding him.

Also, bland protagonists ruin stories for me, no matter how much potential the story has. When it's in a story, I think it's generally done because it's the easy way. In a game, I feel it's because they're pandering to me.

After all, the whole point is to make me identify with something, right? Well, I'd rather identify with a more defined character with ambition, than some passive guy who just happens to be around when important things happen. And if I don't, then it's just not my cup of tea.

[Kailoto]

It's why I don't like writers that use silent protagonists in a game that claims to have a story. Link from Zelda is a famous mute. We don't like him personally, we like the story surrounding him.

It's interesting you bring up Link, since he's usually the one example people will use to defend the idea of a complete "player avatar" i.e. a character whose only purpose is to be a connection between the game and the person playing it. I'm on the fence about the topic; while it's true that a well-defined protagonist makes for a more compelling story, the Zelda franchise (and most videogames) are about more than just the story. A good example is Skyward Sword; people who liked it tend to do so because the story was more fleshed out, Link and Zelda had actual personalities, and there was even some inner conflict involved. But a lot of people disliked it because the story holds much less worth to them compared to the gameplay, which lacked much of the open world exploration that Zelda is famous for.

When it comes to visual novels and other interactive fiction though - mediums where the entire purpose is to tell a story - then I agree with you, silent protagonists aren't really necessary. But as long as gameplay is a factor, sometimes compromises have to be made with the story.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

It's why I don't like writers that use silent protagonists in a game that claims to have a story. Link from Zelda is a famous mute. We don't like him personally, we like the story surrounding him.

It's interesting you bring up Link, since he's usually the one example people will use to defend the idea of a complete "player avatar" i.e. a character whose only purpose is to be a connection between the game and the person playing it.

A little off-topic, but Link has never been a mute protagonist or player avatar for me. I think he isn't for a lot of people my age.

My first experience with the character was the original gold cart game on NES, and the Friday cartoon on the Super Mario Bros. Show. No matter what some people say, I love that cartoon. I liked the basis that it took place after the first game, and Zelda and Link don't really know each other very well, but he's saved the kingdom and now lives in the palace with the on-going day job of making sure Ganon doesn't get his hands on the Triforce of Wisdom again. He's trying to court Zelda, but she isn't having any of it, and not adventuring is making him kind of stir-crazy.The Link in my head has always been that slightly smug, sarcastic hero who is a little too overconfident in his own abilities. Even playing the recent 3DS Zelda game, whenever the princess got on to Link, I'm smiling and hearing him go, "Well, excuse me, Princess!" in my head. And it is glorious.

When Link was originally introduced, he was in Nintendo Power comics, regular comics, books, the TV show, etc. and he talked in all of them. It wasn't until the Super Nintendo and N64 era that he turned into a mute, and by then his personalty was ingrained with a lot of people like me who grew up in the 80s with the original incarnation of the character.

[HiddenCreature]

When it comes to visual novels and other interactive fiction though - mediums where the entire purpose is to tell a story - then I agree with you, silent protagonists aren't really necessary. But as long as gameplay is a factor, sometimes compromises have to be made with the story.

Of course. Some games, gameplay takes priority over a story. And if the devs are honest about it, they'll pretty much say, "The protagonist is more of a tool than a character for the game."

But making a character with some motivation and a few lines of dialogue, isn't that difficult, or expensive.

Jack from Bioshock, or Chell from Portal. Great gameplay, and very interesting worlds. The latter, however, is undermined by the fact that the characters at the heart of everything, have no personality or motivations; it makes me feel like a guy just going through the motions.

And that's what bland protagonists do in any genre: react. They do what they're told, or expected, with little to no resistance.

I mean, did Link ever have second thoughts before risking his life several times over? Did Jack ever feel regret for having to kill people to survive? Does Chell secretly miss her family that we're never told about? Whether silent or bland, it's questions like these that are often left unanswered, leaving much to be desired story-wise.

I agree that for games where story is clearly not important, yeah, go bland or silent protagonist. But when there's clear effort put into the game's lore and story, you have to back it up with a good protagonist.

[WesternFish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ-EY9gTsgU