female mc persona questions

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morg
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female mc persona questions

#1 Post by morg »

Simple question, which archetypes make a female character unlikeable to you and which overused traits arent you a fan of? (questions regard playable female characters)
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Re: female mc persona questions

#2 Post by Parataxis »

I personally really hate characters who have all their personality scrubbed off in service of "Being likable".

Honestly? Likable is a trap. No character will ever be likable to everyone and striving to make a character who's popular rather than a character who is best for the story is the fastest way to make a cardboard cutout covered in adjectives--which no one likes.

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Re: female mc persona questions

#3 Post by RotGtIE »

At the top of the list is the tendency to be the sole source of all of her own problems. If she's upset that she's unpopular but she never ever tries to talk to anybody or make any friends, or if she wonders why she keeps failing at love when she picks fights in her relationships or just dumps and rejects everyone who comes her way, or if she can't hold a job because she has no work ethic, she'll come across like a person who just makes the world a little bit crappier just by being in it. It's difficult to sympathize with a character who creates problems for herself and others that she doesn't have to.

Another one, and this is mostly related to the first, is externalizing the responsibility for correcting her problems. It's worse if she's the one creating them herself, but it's still shitty for someone to just sit back and expect other people to fix your life for you, and especially shitty to get mad at them for not doing so.

Tribalistic tendencies. Placing oneself first, one's friends second, and everyone else goes into the categories of "other" or "bad person." The "goodness" of other people being determined not by any measure of moral or principled behavior, but by whether they support the egocentric character in question, and then labels are applied based on that. In other words, a really crooked and egocentric sense of moral/character judgment.

These come to mind only because I find them to be the most common worst offenders. Besides just being patterns of poor judgment which would make a person shitty in real life, traits like these are often excused as being "character flaws" and I don't see them getting resolved throughout the course of a story involving such a character.

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Re: female mc persona questions

#4 Post by YonYonYon »

Pure innocent maidens, too sheltered to be real. The ones who are very kind and forgiving without any emotional depth - the perfect doormat princesses.

And now I'll explain more elaborately why I dislike this:

- Like, if a boy is flirting with you, you'll get it in at least second time. And even if you don't, there must be some explaination other than ~*innocence*~. Innocence is overrated.

- Characters being always kind and forgiving is so frustrating! "Oh, you betrayed me and because of you my family got murdered, but I forgive you, because reasons" - this makes me want to punch something. I'm not saying that forgiving is bad, but forgiving someone THAT easily is just unreal. I want anger! I want sadness! I want acceptance! And then I can forgive the wrongdoing.
Like, drag your character through all the stages of grief, man.

- And about doormats and pushovers, they just don't make good protagonists. I'm not saying that protagonists can't be shy or awkward, I'm saying that usualyy these kind of characters passively allow the plot to happen to them instead of proactively doing soethng that moves the plot.
Which is bad for dramatically written stories.

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About what RotGtIE said: I think it gets frustrating when the story itself tries to make us to agree with such egocentric characters. It gets pretty alright if the story points out that it's a bad behaviour and the egocentric character gets "punished" this way or another.
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Re: female mc persona questions

#5 Post by Genesis »

In my opinion, female MCs arrive at unlikable territory when their actions become unbelievable and unrelatable. Traits don't really affect anything for me as long as they are developed and there are reasons behind these traits.

Like YonYonYon, I don't like innocent MCs (not necessarily the trait itself though, but how poorly it is portrayed). If your female MC is a teenager, then it is very unlikely for her to be 'innocent' considering how the modern world is. Also, for half of the time, the innocent trait exists just for the male characters to call the MC cute etc, and that frankly gets annoying because there is nothing more to it.

It goes the same for the word 'strong' even though many people seem to like that word these days. However, if the MC is just 'strong', 'intelligent' and there is nothing else to her, then she will never be relatable.

Negative traits are nice but then again, they should be developed as well. 'Low self-esteem' is frequently used, but if you are going to incorporate that inside your character, then it is best if there is a story behind it so that the readers can understand why the character has such a mindset.

Also, I think character relationships are also an important part in developing a character. Realistic MCs don't have smooth sailing relationships with everyone. Conflicts do occur between even the best of friends, and rivalry does happen (but it doesn't mean the rivalry has to be with the popular and stuck-up girl). Also, I think it would be great if the MC can show growth throughout the story. It is okay for the MC to make mistakes as long as she learns from them and accepts the consequences for her acts, but if she escapes punishment or if the mistakes are excusable all of a sudden, then it really spoils the whole story.
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Re: female mc persona questions

#6 Post by gekiganwing »

What can make a main character interesting? I'll try to think of aspects which have nothing to do with the person's name, sex, age, or appearance.

* An MC who is a distinct individual with a personality. In other words, a main character who has their own thoughts, goals, and concerns. They have experienced a number of things over the years, and have changed as time has gone by.
* An MC with conflicts. The person wants something bad, and someone stands in their way. They need to take actions in order to get what they want.
* An MC who's neither hopelessly flawed nor too perfect -- just a normal person. Give them just enough strengths and weaknesses.
* An MC who seems believable. Their abilities and mindset make sense in the world of the story. Their upbringing shaped them, but they're not just a product of circumstances.

Some additional things to consider, which _might_ be beneficial for your story:

1. A main character who does not just interact with love interests. The person has friends, family, coworkers, mentors, and so on.
2. A main character who emotes when it makes sense.
3. A main character with "masks," and multiple levels of depth. They act in different ways depending on circumstances. They're complex people because there's more to them than just a surface. They have a variety of hobbies, motives, and so on.

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Re: female mc persona questions

#7 Post by JJupiterJump »

Most of the people before me have said a lot of the points that I would have said, but another problem I have with main characters, male or female, is when they have no personality. If you can't really define your character traits for your MC, and all their actions are just convenient to the plot instead of based on what they would do (but is also convenient to the plot probably) then I would say they're a boring character. Self-inserts are in a lot of stories, whether they're meant to be one or not. I also dislike MC's that have to rely on the other characters to have personality; for example: MC has funny sarcastic conversations with A, but with B is a nice, boring person. Where did the sarcastic MC go?

Give me a character- any character with emotions, independent thoughts, and feelings towards subjects, and I'll like them a lot more then any innocent, dependent-on-others-for-personality MC. Give me a different MC, give me someone who is egotistical who thinks everything should be handed to them with anger issues, give me a intelligent book-worm whose quiet but can beat you down with words, give me someone who see's conspiracies everywhere and has Anatidaephobia.

Your MC should be as much of a character as any of the other characters in your story.

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Re: female mc persona questions

#8 Post by morg »

Thanks to everyone who has replied, you've all helped me alot. I had actually taken planning a personality for the mc as i'd do for any other character into account. 'oh, person A will say -- because thats how a cheery peron like them would react, and well, the protag will reply with uh, whatever the next person would usually reply' is a way of thinking that gives you a shallow protaganist so I'm aiming to avoid it.
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Re: female mc persona questions

#9 Post by Rossfellow »

I personally don't like any character, especially an MC, that feels like its pandering to something. I believe we have a term for that...

Right. "Token".

I think the problem with "Token" characters isn't how overused they are (Overused is not inherently Bad), but how it feels like the author thinks its "mandatory" to have one. It's pretty easy to tell when the author employs the "Token Tsundere", or the "Token Jaded Veteran", only there because the author is trying to cast a wide net to make his or her readers like something. It's pretty bad practice.

For MCs in games and protagonists of stories, this tends to be "Token Brave and Selfless Hero/ine" or "Token Everyman Dragged Into An Epic Adventure". Those aren't bad things either, since those are classic tropes, but I believe there should be a lot more to them than that.

Edit: Workshop: So who are your favorite MCs? Study them. What is it about them that you liked?
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Re: female mc persona questions

#10 Post by ChillTaco »

I think the most important thing is execution, thinking of the reason why. The thing most people hate isn't the cliche really, its just how these writers write them. Such as the sheltered type, it was good in the book 'flowers in the attic'.

Thought should mostly be put on the plot and development of the characters. Thats just basic.

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Re: female mc persona questions

#11 Post by Lunarmirage »

I find myself really disliking the passive characters that never do anything to advance the plot. Having a character just be "lucky" enough to stumble onto the plot just never feels right. But then again, I hate when car crashes (actual accidents, not secret plots or anything) occur in fiction as a sort of free way to advance the plot. It just feels really cheap, like the writer didn't know what to do and took the easy way out.

Other than that, I can tolerate most playable female characters. In all honesty, it really depends on how you write them. I've found Mary-Sue characters that I actually liked as characters because they were written realistically (although mary-sues should definitely be avoided).

So yeah. That's just what I think. XD

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Re: female mc persona questions

#12 Post by Gabylc »

One thing really annoys me when it comes to female MC, but it's often linked to execution more than to their character: MC who are only defined by others. Like everyone will have an opinion on the MC (she's beautiful / cute / nice / smart / whatever) exept herself. It makes me feel like she's not even part of her story.
It can be linked to what JJupiterJump said: MC who have no character and are only mirrors to show other characters traits / plot tools to advance the story without real motive.
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Re: female mc persona questions

#13 Post by E-l337 »

I often find myself portraying females more often than males - there's a part of my brain that seems to prefer females for some reason when making characters. That said, I think something you should keep in mind that nobody here has mentioned yet is that an archetype is not the sole defining trait of a character. They are a guideline, a starting point if you will.

There are so many 'archetypes' that send me frothing at the mouth. Usually the 'moe' characters - those cute girls whose sole purpose for existing is to look cute and make the viewers make with the 'uguus' and whatever other anime-nonsense you throw out there. It aggravates me because I like there to be depth to my characters, and to the characters I am watching/playing.

You can say 'well, Alice is a selfless girl who goes out of her way to help others', but you should ask yourself, why is she this way? When you have a defining trait like that, it's far more interesting to explore the reasons behind their behaviors, and to ask yourself 'is there a situation that might cause them to act differently, and if so why?' These are things you can exploit in writing to make a character 'pop'. Something to make them unique.

Maybe Miranda is a nun. But why did she choose to become one? What sets her apart from all the other dime-a-dozen nuns that exist in the world? Does she struggle with her faith? Did she cross a line at some point in the past which made her have an epiphany or a change of heart?

It's important to keep in mind that characters are (usually) human. Which means they have to have flaws and character defects. Things that make them less than perfect - things that make them human.

There's nothing that turns me off or makes me angrier than a 'perfect' character. Because those just aren't very interesting. Someone that constantly strives for perfection for a specific reason though? Immediate improvement.

I'm not saying every character needs a tragic backstory or anything. But you should consider taking a character and asking what would happen if they were in a random situation, and see how they'd act naturally. Not 'how should they act to achieve a particular goal', but rather 'how would they act because of the way they think?'

Any archetype can be interesting, provided they are portrayed well enough.

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Re: female mc persona questions

#14 Post by Fox Lee »

Lunarmirage wrote:I find myself really disliking the passive characters that never do anything to advance the plot. Having a character just be "lucky" enough to stumble onto the plot just never feels right. But then again, I hate when car crashes (actual accidents, not secret plots or anything) occur in fiction as a sort of free way to advance the plot. It just feels really cheap, like the writer didn't know what to do and took the easy way out.

Other than that, I can tolerate most playable female characters. In all honesty, it really depends on how you write them. I've found Mary-Sue characters that I actually liked as characters because they were written realistically (although mary-sues should definitely be avoided).
That's pretty much me too. I can tolerate almost any trait in a main character (as long as they're supposed to be traits on a character, and not the writer trying to guess at "me") except being passive and not having a meaningful presence in their own story. Drives me crazy when a female MC winds up wandering through the story just letting stuff and danger and boys happen to her, rather than having goals and intentions of her own.

There are a lot of qualities I don't necessarily enjoy on a main character, but all of them can be done right, as well. I think the only time they're a problem is when there is, let's call it "show and tell dissonance" (there's probably a formal name for it, but I dunno). This takes a few forms-
  • If the story tells me a character has certain good qualities but she doesn't seem to display them, I will probably find her disappointing.
  • If the character displays negative qualities but the story seems to think they are virtues, I will probably find her super annoying.
  • If the character thinks/feels in one way and then acts in another (like, I often see otome protagonists who claim to be unhappy about something, but don't actually try to do anything about it) but the story doesn't acknowledge that contradiction, the character seems hypocritical and unappealing.
Of course, those are all pretty much just reiterating that poorly written characters are easy to dislike :p If a character is consistent, and the story understands her and knows how to use and develop her, she can have almost any traits.
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Re: female mc persona questions

#15 Post by Keryee »

I struggle with protagonists who are that "blushing innocent maiden" archetype. I mean, you know the type: she's your beautiful shoujo-manga protagonist who's been scrubbed clean in the name of perfection. People fall in love with her with the batting of an eyelid! Even her enemies can't quite bring themselves to hate her!

That said, I also find myself disliking characters whose authors are going for "spunky" and then she ends up being extremely rude to everyone around her, but somehow people just admire her for it. It just seems really strange and unrealistic?!

In general, I think this has already been said, but one-dimensional characters (ie. a character whose only trait is "pure" or "spunky" or something) are generally very hard to like.

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