Figuring out Public Domain Music

[verysunshine]

I've been trying to figure out if I can legally sample the notes of the jazz standard Guilty, written by Richard Whiting, Harry Akst and Gus Kahn in 1931, though it was popularized in 1946. I can't figure out if the copyright was renewed.

The work would be in the public domain if it was not renewed, but if it was, I'm not sure if it is in the public domain. If it's not, I'll have to:

a) get permission from whoever owns the rights (it's tough to tell)

b) rewrite the music

Does anybody know if it would be in the public domain?

[trooper6]

Are you wanting to use a recording of the music (like the Al Bowlly one from Amelie, or some other recording)? If the answer to that question is yes, then it doesn't matter if the sheet music is in the public domain, the recording certainly isn't. It is very, very, very unlikely that any recording after 1923 (the year the Mikey Mouse was created) has fallen into the public domain. Disney is making sure of that.

So if you want a specific recording, you'll have to get permission. The best way to find out who to ask in that case is to look up the liner notes of the CD/LP with the song, who holds copyright should be listed there.

If you want to perform the notes yourself from the sheet music...whether that is possible depends on if the sheet music is under copyright. If it is earlier than 1923, you are good to go...if it is after? Then you have to look up the copyright, check copyright.loc.gov.

Searched copyright.loc.gov for you and found this record:
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... 2411&SID=2

That seems to imply that the song might no longer be under copyright....but I'm no lawyer, and I'm not certain. What I'd so is contact the copyright office:
http://www.copyright.gov/help/

Explain what you want to do, use the reference number of the search result I mentioned, and ask if that sheet music really is in the public domain.

But if you want to use a recording? Then you must get permission from the copyright holder of the *recording* and pay.

[verysunshine]

Are you wanting to use a recording of the music (like the Al Bowlly one from Amelie, or some other recording)? If the answer to that question is yes, then it doesn't matter if the sheet music is in the public domain, the recording certainly isn't. It is very, very, very unlikely that any recording after 1923 (the year the Mikey Mouse was created) has fallen into the public domain. Disney is making sure of that.

So if you want a specific recording, you'll have to get permission. The best way to find out who to ask in that case is to look up the liner notes of the CD/LP with the song, who holds copyright should be listed there.

If you want to perform the notes yourself from the sheet music...whether that is possible depends on if the sheet music is under copyright. If it is earlier than 1923, you are good to go...if it is after? Then you have to look up the copyright, check copyright.loc.gov.

Searched copyright.loc.gov for you and found this record:
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebre ... 2411&SID=2

That seems to imply that the song might no longer be under copyright....but I'm no lawyer, and I'm not certain. What I'd so is contact the copyright office:
http://www.copyright.gov/help/

Explain what you want to do, use the reference number of the search result I mentioned, and ask if that sheet music really is in the public domain.

But if you want to use a recording? Then you must get permission from the copyright holder of the *recording* and pay.

I'm not using a recording - I would be using bits of the sheet music in my own composition.

Based on that link and research that I have done, the lyrics of the song are public domain. (Mr. Kahn wrote the lyrics to the song.) It seems like the only way to figure out if the melody (sheet music) is public domain is to go through the book Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1931 Musical Compositions For the Year 1931 New Series Vol 26 Part 3, which the US Copyright Office posted online. The book is not searchable. University has prepared me for such long lists.

And if my resolve gives way before my research brings results, I can just use Wagner's Treulich Geführt. That is definitely free to use.

Edit: Wrong book. I am actually looking for a copyright renewal in 1959. Whoops.