Umineko no Naku Koro ni

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Re: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

#46 Post by Suikama »

Buy the game :D

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Re: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

#47 Post by AllegroDiRossi »

I asked a tech support question. Your response was unhelpful, especially since you didn't know the circumstances under which I obtained the virtual disk.

If I need to prove myself before anyone will help, then here it is: My virtual copy is a straight rip of the real disk that I split the cost of with a friend. Since I have been able to mount and install previous disk images for EP4 and EP5, I gave her the disk. She moved away back in February, and getting a hold of the real disk is unrealistic at this point.

So, no, I won't buy it again.

Now, do you have anything that might be more helpful to me?
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Re: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

#48 Post by Suikama »

Which episode? For episode 6 I just installed the game first and then ran the patch after and it never asked me for the disk or anything, although I don't really remember if they work the same for the other episodes.

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Re: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

#49 Post by ForgottenVision »

Try one of the other versions that WH provide? The installer exe is a new version but I think they still provide the old zip file you just extract and put in the game directory.

In the middle of reading Episode 6 now... ^___^
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Re: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

#50 Post by Suikama »

Oh man Erika and her
duct tape

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Re: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

#51 Post by ForgottenVision »

Episode 7 spoilers!
Finished it today! Good lord that was quite epic. Just when I thought that Battler had solved the closed room by having Kyrie slip in... also WTF ERIKA killed them all?!?! Anyway yeah... Erika didn't seem so bad at the end but she came off as such a rapist, tbh :? When she said she was going to torture him long and hard with a mirror in the bedroom so he could see how much he was being humiliated was... erm... yeah... I kinda liked Zepar and Furfur but the whole love trials thing seemed a little pointless... Still brilliant though!
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Re: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

#52 Post by Suikama »

ForgottenVision wrote:Episode 7 spoilers!
Finished it today! Good lord that was quite epic. Just when I thought that Battler had solved the closed room by having Kyrie slip in... also WTF ERIKA killed them all?!?! Anyway yeah... Erika didn't seem so bad at the end but she came off as such a rapist, tbh :? When she said she was going to torture him long and hard with a mirror in the bedroom so he could see how much he was being humiliated was... erm... yeah... I kinda liked Zepar and Furfur but the whole love trials thing seemed a little pointless... Still brilliant though!
Pointless? You mean other than the fact it proves
Shannon and Kanon and Beato are all the same person.
Also I think you meant episode 6 and not 7 :V

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Re: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

#53 Post by ForgottenVision »

Yeah, I did mean ep 6 :P
It could mean that, but I hate Shkanon (and now Shkanontrice) theories even though they've been quite heavily alluded to in the VN's. Then again, Ruyukishi is one to pull a fast one on us so if he's pointing towards Shkanon, then it probably isn't :P
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Re: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

#54 Post by Suikama »

ForgottenVision wrote:Yeah, I did mean ep 6 :P
It could mean that, but I hate Shkanon (and now Shkanontrice) theories even though they've been quite heavily alluded to in the VN's. Then again, Ruyukishi is one to pull a fast one on us so if he's pointing towards Shkanon, then it probably isn't :P
Since it's Ryu, it's totally possible he's trolling us again :V

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Re: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

#55 Post by Coren »

Then again, they're Core Arcs, not trolling arcs... :/

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Re: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

#56 Post by AllegroDiRossi »

AJAFRAJA!
EPISODE 8 ANNOUNCED

UMINEKO NO NAKU KORO NI: TWILIGHT OF THE GOLDEN WITCH
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Re: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

#57 Post by Coren »

Finished Episode 7.
Shannontrice confirmed.

Shannon is the man from 19 years ago, whose real name is Ushiromiya Lion.
Shannon is really 19 years old but got 3 years erased off the record by Genji to prevent suspicion, so people think she's 16.
Shannon was in love with Battler, and Battler was in love with her.
George is fat and an ass.

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Re: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

#58 Post by AllegroDiRossi »

I feel so utterly in awe of Ryukishi. For some random reason, I decided to go back and read the Bernkastel poems from Higurashi no Nako Koro ni. Imagine my distinct surprise when certain poems and phrases apply perfectly to the Umineko universe.

All of this is my own speculation, so make of it what you will or disregard it. And whether Ryukishi meant to have these mirror events he knew would occur in Umineko or its a wild coincidence (considering the topic and author, the latter seems almost impossible), it's interesting how such clear connections can be drawn.
Onikakushi-hen (game) wrote:Please do not deplore yourself.
Even if the world does not forgive, I will forgive you.

Please do not deplore yourself.
Even if you do not forgive the world, I will forgive you.

So please tell me.
What will it take for you, to forgive me?


-Frederica Bernkastel
This could apply to Eva or Battler. Eva was ostracized by the world as a murderess for the Rokkenjima incident and even though she never came forward about what happened, in the end, she still seeks Ange's forgiveness. And obviously, Battler forgiving or being forgiven my Beatrice/Yasu.
Onikakushi-hen (from the postcard in GanGan Powered Spring 2005 issue) wrote:Do you know what is the sin?
It isn't because you ate the forbidden fruit.

Do you know what is the sin?
It isn't because you listened to the serpent.

You still don't know what is the sin?
Then, that itself is your sin.


-Frederica Bernkastel
Basically, the climax of episode 4. Battler doesn't realize his sin against Yasu and everything that has happened on Rokkenjima is a direct result of that sin.
Watanagashi-hen (game) wrote:I cannot quench your thirst
Because even if you yearn for the truth, you refuse to believe in it.

I cannot quench your thirst
Because no such truth exists that you are in anticipation for.

But I still want to quench your thirst.
Because I am the one the that put you into the desert.


-Frederica Bernkastel
Ange in episode 7. Also, Ange in episode 8 from what I gather.
Watanagashi-hen (from the postcard in GanGan WING June 2005 issue) wrote:The most intricate thing to find in this world.
Is it a needle that you lost in the desert?

The most intricate thing to find in this world.
Is it a crow's feather that you lost in the darkness of the night?

The most intricate thing to find in this world is,
Realizing your own erroneous contemplation.


-Frederica Bernkastel
IT'S EVEN IN RED! Since the killer is apparently never explicitly stated in episode 8 (according to the people over at AnimeSuki) this quote shows us that we've been looking for, "the most intricate thing to find in the world" or the killer, wasn't what Ryukishi wanted us to find at all. It wasn't a mystery or a fantasy all along. It was a journey of perception and how we come to find our own truth, just like Ange in episodes 4 and 8.
Tatarigoroshi-hen (game) wrote:The frog in the well was happy.
It wasn't interested what was outside the well.

The frog in the well was happy.
It was recluse to anything that happened outside the well.

And you were happy.
Because you didn't know what occurred outside the well.


-Frederica Bernkastel
This one kind of eludes me so far, since I haven't read episode 8 yet, but I really think it's referring to Ange again. Ange lives her entire existence consumed by the catbox of 1986 and Rokkenjima, and not in the present as she should. As unhappy as she was, in a sick way Ange was happy in her unhappiness because of what Bernkastel told her: that to resent Eva and obsess over the events of 1986 would lead her to getting Battler back.
Tatarigoroshi-hen (from the postcard in G-fantasy June 2005 issue) wrote:I was the most unfortunate.
I knew that there was no exit out of this maze.

Then, he was the next unfortunate.
He did not know that there was no exit out of this maze.

But all the rest weren't so unfortunate.
They didn't know that they were in the maze in the first place.


-Frederica Bernkastel
Ange (since it seems more and more like she's the true main character) is truly unfortunate, because she is trapped by the catbox of Rokkenjima (a maze with no exit because there is no truth). Battler is secondly unfortunate because he died in the catbox of Rokkenjima and is now trapped in its maze without truth or without end. Perhaps he realized that precisely because there is no truth, that is how he became the game master. Sadly, being the master of a maze without exit is the same as being a prisoner of that maze. And lastly, WE are the less unfortunate souls who are trapped in the maze without exit, because we blindly search for the exit (the truth) without realizing it's not there.
Himatsubishi-hen (game) wrote:So who is the culprit, you ask?
Finding that out is part of the story, right?

So who is the culprit, you ask?
Do you even know what is the culprit in the first place?

So who is the culprit?
Who is the culprit that's gonna kill me?!


-Frederica Bernkastel
This is probably an ask-and-answer kind of poem. We the readers are asking who the culprit is, but Bernkastel admonishes us and reminds us that we don't even know what we're looking for: we don't know what the culprit (the point of the story) is in the first place. I don't understand the part where she asks who is going to kill her, or if that even references Bernkastel or the reader.
Himatsubushi-hen (from the shitajiki in GanGan March 2006 issue) wrote:What is it that I seek?
Perhaps it is a knight from a far away land.

What is it that I seek?
Perhaps it is a shore that will save me from this eternal swamp.

There is only one thing that I seek.
What I would obtain will either be the kishi (shore), or shiki (my death).


-Frederica Bernkastel
We're told explicitly in red that we don't know what we're seeking. Are we looking for a detective to come in and solve the case for us? Are we merely seeking the resolution to the story, to see ourselves at the other end? There is only one thing we should be seeking: the resolution (the shore at the other end of the eternal swamp, Ange's acceptance of the terrible events and her moving on) or our own death to save us from being lost (Ange lingers in the catbox, forever tied down in the maze with no truth, left to die alone and unhappy).
Meakashi-hen (game) wrote:The little girl cried when she lost her marbles in the desert.
She searched the desert for one hundred years.

The little girl cried when she thought she might've lost them in the sea rather than the desert.
She searched the depths of the sea for one hundred years.

The little girl cried when she thought she might've lost them in the mountains than the sea.
How long will it take till she begins to doubt whether or not she actually lost them to begin with?


-Frederica Bernkastel
Ange is the little girl and her family are the marbles she lost (an apt euphemism considering the hair accessories that Battler gave her). The desert, the ocean, the mountain, they can all represent the different message bottles or kakera that she searches for, looking for the one kakera, the one place that she truly lost her marbles. I don't understand the doubting whether she lost them all along part. I also think it's funny that the English translation is "losing her marbles." The expression was probably unintentionally invoked, but is especially fitting if you think of trying to solve the mysteries of Umineko for 300+ years (logic error anyone?).
Tsumihoroboshi-hen (game) wrote:At the first time, I do my best to try again
against the inevitable tragedy.

In the second time, I become disgusted
towards the inevitable tragedy.

The third time, disgust is overwhelmed into painfulness.
But by the seventh time, this all becomes a farce comedy.


-Frederica Bernkastel
Perhaps Ange is like Rika was, trapped in a cycle that continues on and on. She's obviously grown tired of and disgusted with the witches' game, even as her piece in episode 7 acts during the tea party. We're also confronted with the idea that the seven previous episodes are really nothing but a farce, something there to distract us from the true purpose of the witches' game.
Tsumihoroboshi-hen (what was listed on the production diary @ 07th Expansion) wrote:She wasn't discouraged nor did she cry at her fate.
She was beautiful.

She didn't fawn anyone and fought them all by herself.
She was noble.

She shined brightly, like a divine figure.
I needed someone like her.


-Frederica Bernkastel
Is this the Ange that comes to the far shore of the swamp? This is certainly how Battler wants her to continue her life, as evidenced by his testament in the ???? of episode 7, and apparently the game board of episode 8 as well. We can only hope that, as the one and only true survivor of the Rokkenjima mystery, this is her ultimate fate.
Minagoroshi-hen (Prologue) wrote:I wanted to know the world that was outside of the well.
So I tried hard to get out from the bottom of the well.

I wanted to know the world that was outside of the well.
So I climbed up numerous of times despite falling down over and over again.

But then I realized it.
The higher and higher I climb, the pain increases when I fall down again.

When my interest in the world outside of the well began to equal the amount of pain,
That was when I finally realized the meaning of the story to Der Froschkönig.


-Frederica Bernkastel
Probably referencing some of the original versions of the Frog Prince story, in which the princess throws the frog against the wall. The force of the impact, which would probably kill a frog, knocks the enchantment from him and he becomes a prince. Perhaps to discover the truth (that there is no truth) we need to die (or let go of our desire to find an absolute truth. This is also true for Ange.
Minagoroshi-hen (After Watanagashi) wrote:Please tell me what happened in this night.
It's like the cat inside the box.

Please tell me what happened in this night.
You don't know if the cat in the box is dead or alive.

Please tell me what happened in this night.
The cat in the box was dead.


-Frederica Bernkastel
References of the catbox make it even more likely that the Bernkastel poems were meant to foreshadow the events of Umineko. The cat is dead. This seems to run contrary to the previous poems that indicate there is no truth (because the fact that the cat is dead is an indisputable fact). However, unlike the previous poem that stated in red that we must Realiz(e) your own erroneous contemplation, this poem is written in simple black and may be disregarded? Or it may reference that the truth we seek (or the potential for that truth) is dead, but unable to be nailed down and exposed to the light of day. After all, we're told the cat is dead, but we're never told it was pulled out of the box. We cannot see the cat (the truth).
Minagoroshi-hen (Ending Credit Roll) wrote:What kind of world lies outside of the well?
Is it something that is worth struggling for?

What kind of world lies outside of the well?
Is it something so attractive enough to fall and try over and over again?

What kind of world lies outside of the well?
Let's enjoy taking the pains of finding that out.

If I reach the world that I yearn for, it must be a spectacular world.
Even if that world was another pit inside a well.

The key to the new world is the resolve to get out of the well.
Being able to get out or not,
A new world awaits...


-Frederica Bernkastel
More references to being stuck in the well. Is the outside world worth struggling for? Is that happy life worth abandoning the comfort of the catbox (the well, the memory of her family, Bernkastel's promises)? Is that life appealing enough that she would bear the pain it would cause to put away the memories of the past? Almost masochistically, Ange (or Bernkastel) revels in the pain that trying causes. Bernkastel certainly relishes the pain that she caused to Ange in episode 7 before turning her back into mincemeat. Ange may come to look back on the painful memories of moving on as a time in her life that leads to new happinesses. The new world she yearns for can be spectacular. All that remains is for her to muster the resolve to reach it.
Matsuribayashi-hen (Prologue & Ending Credit Roll Part A) wrote:Everyone has a right to pursue a happy life.
The difficult part is to be given that right.

Everyone has a right to pursue a happy life.
The difficult part is to fulfill that right.

I too have a right to pursue a happy life.
The difficult part is to work out a compromise for that right.


-Frederica Bernkastel
Ange, as well as we the readers, have a right to pursue a happy life. The difficult part is being granted that right, or seeing that the right is there for us. Ange doesn't see because she seeks truth, which is fundamentally blocking her from a happy life, since there is no truth. We don't see for the same reason. We cannot be content because we don't accept that there could be no answer to the mysteries that happened on Rokkenjima. The difficult part is fulfilling that right, or taking the necessary steps to turn our backs on Rokkenjima and move on. Ange doesn't want to because she desires closure from her family's deaths. We don't want to because as the reader of the witches' game, we seek resolution to the mysteries that have been set before our faces. The difficult part is to work out a compromise for that right. Ange can never turn her back on Rokkenjima completely, but she must turn away enough to be able to lead a new and happy life. We can never turn our backs on Rokkenjima completely, but we must in order to find closure and truly understand the point of the story. If we don't, a small part of us will be trapped in the sea of kakera, eternally searching for the exit that we cannot find. Even if we forget Rokkenjima and the Ushiromiyas, part of our spirit will still wander that place.
Matsuribayashi-hen (Ending Credit Roll Part B) wrote:That's because
I'm gonna become much much more happy from now on.

I'm not gonna compromise with just this.
We are gonna take back all of our happiness that we lost.

For me, that's about a hundred year's worth.
For you, a thousand year's worth.


-Frederica Bernkastel
We and Ange must forge ahead and make our own happiness, despite the tragedy of Rokkenjima (the death of Ange's family and our unanswered questions). We need to take back the happiness we have lost, for Ange, it is her life, a hundred years worth. For us, the reader's cumulative sacrifice of time must surely have equalled far more than 8,765,820 hours. Bernkastel, Lambdadelta, and Featherine aren't the witches who watch the performance in the theater for a thousand years; we together are that witch, the golden witch who has lived for a thousand years.
The Witch will praise the wise, and should bestow four treasures.

One shall be, all the gold from the Golden Land.
The tales we have read, the entertainment we have enjoyed.
One shall be, the resurrection of the souls of all the dead.
They will live on with us, their memory forever engraved in our hearts.
One shall be, even the resurrection of the lost love.
We hold no ire for the catbox to remain closed, we admire your theatrics.
One shall be, to put the Witch to sleep for all time.
We need no more message bottles, the play can come to its rightful end.


Without love, it cannot be seen.
With love, we have seen it.


Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice.
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Re: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

#59 Post by Coren »

A brilliant post, Allegro. I myself am having really mixed feelings about Ep8, and I can't deny that part of me does feel disappointed at the ending. In fact, I don't know what I feel about it anymore.

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Re: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

#60 Post by AllegroDiRossi »

I really want to read it already, but my Japanese is nowhere proficient enough to try and go it alone. I'll have to wait until the witch hunt translation in the summer. But I have been reading spoilers and notes and honestly, I don't know what to make of it yet, other than it was definitely not what anyone was expecting.

Can you answer just one question though? Do they confirm Lion's (Yasu's) gender? He's male, right? I wouldn't enjoy Will-x-Lion nearly as much if Lion were female, haha.
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