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So you can't sympathize with feminists anymore because... They (apparently) keep you from playing games where you, as the MC, stalk, molest, and rape women? Games like that exist and you think the feminists are in the wrong?

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1/2 of Cyanide Tea | BCM | Ristorante Amore | The Elevator | @Twitter

So because some eroge makers decided to blame you for someone else's actions, you decided to blame us for someone else's actions too. Logic!

Which is to say, it was one very specific small sect of upset feminists who started writing letters to the Japanese about Rapelay, after attention was brought to the game in the mainstream media by a bored journalist who wasn't related to feminism at all. This tiny group of people, who had apparently never heard of hentai before, were absolutely horrified by what is, to be fair, a pretty creepy game. They wrote some letters asking for bans on this sort of creepy stuff. They were ignorant and misguided and I don't approve of censorship in any form... but as soon as they spoke out they were quite viciously attacked, with death threats, rape threats, people mailing them guro and fake snuff and all sorts of nonsense, and a huge hate campaign organised by certain otaku sites which resorted to making up news in order to fan the flames higher.

After that... it's pretty hard to sympathise with the rapelay fans.

The anti-Rapelay group assumed that people playing games like that were hateful people. That's not actually true, but the resulting disaster certainly didn't help disprove their assertion.

And for all that, it was *one very small club* that was writing the letters. It was not "feminists" as some sort of general organisation, because we don't have a general organisation. Not that this stopped a bunch of said otaku sites from saying that all feminists, or in some cases all women, should suffer consequences too unpleasant for me to relate here.

So yeah. Don't bring that up and expect it to get much sympathy from me for the poor, poor eroge fans.



Not even that: Because the resulting political fallout made it inconvenient for foreign fans to visit the websites of Japanese game companies from which I strongly suspect they couldn't actually order legal copies directly anyway.

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Hanako Games

For your record, I never play rapelay, not even once ... .

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My Deviant Art Link

*shrug* Doesn't exactly matter to me. As I said, playing rapelay doesn't actually make you a bad person. I'm very anti-censorship. I'm creeped out by the amount of rape in some hentai, but I'm more of the 'fight bad ideas with good ideas' than the banning sort. Besides, I know plenty of people who play creepy games who aren't evil.

It's the attacking people that I object to - the extremely vicious attacks on feminists I witnessed during that period, and the way people keep bringing it up now, usually with a giant stack of hateful hyperbole attached.

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Hanako Games

Well, if it's hard for you to tell what isn't actively offensive*, here's a few (at least for me):

-Beyond Good and Evil. Personally I think Jade's gender is irrelevant, but she's woman lead that doesn't dress ridiculously like stripper given the situation, she's not a Faux Action Girl, she's not a total asshole masquerading as a Strong Female Character (TM)...

Keep in mind, if you want to play that, it's more a stealth/puzzle game, rather than an combat heavy game. Which may have been what screwed it: the game play, and the fact it's story is actually rather deep.

-Kya: Dark Lineage. Okay, that game has it's flaws, but at the very least Kya is a competent character (unless at some point she isn't; I'm still playing it)

Actually, I kind of feel like Kya is the ONLY competent character in that game...

-Ellie from Dead Space 2 is a secondary character, but she's pretty cool. She does, after all,

There could be more I'm forgetting, seeing as I'm just looking at games I have within reach and I haven't looked at my Steam or Gog accounts. Some characters I'm on the fence about, and I don't feel like making a giant post about that.

*I'm not trying to be mean here, but some people cannot seriously get why some things may piss women off

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I lie awake at night wondering what fresh hell tomorrow will bring me.

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*Adding on to Mink's list.

I though Aveline from DA2 was pretty awesome because she suited her role in the game and her romantic side quest (not with you) was kind of funny because it's how I would imagine someone like her handling it.

Also Tali from Mass Effect 1 and 2 who is the only female in the entire series I would consider dating. I'm playing through as a guy just for her. Her design is pretty typical, but interesting. Fascinating character and backstory. Jack is... well, at least she's unique. I have NEVER seen any character quite like her, though she has some flaws.

... I can't think of anything else at the moment. Will think over it.

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The other 1/2 of Cyanide Tea l My Deviantart Account I My Tumber Account I Break Chance Memento I Ristorante Amore

Curious about the reaction of women here (whom I consider 'hardcore' gamers) to this piece:

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/TylerYor ... mblers.php

I'm... not sure? It doesn't really make a lot of sense to me really. Games in generally tend to be addictive because they play on emotions to compete and complete. Anyone want to check out the stats for how many hours the average COD player puts in? But humans are easily addicted to many things things, so I'm not sure there is a direct correaltion that can say anything directly.

Also it feels a bit like 'All seriel killers have fridges, therefore anyone with a fridge is a seriel killer'? So I'm not sure what his point is. Girls play casual games because they are like slot machines? How do they know they aren't playing them because they actively don't try to isolate or insult them?

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The other 1/2 of Cyanide Tea l My Deviantart Account I My Tumber Account I Break Chance Memento I Ristorante Amore

The majority of this thread has been saying that if you don't support females, you automatically become a sexist and you oppress women and many of the feminists here seem to be sticking tightly to a point and saying it again and again, changing the words every time.
By their definition, anyone who isn't a feminist turn into a women-hater because they can't cater to the female audience.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/th ... privilege/
http://fathersforlife.org/feminism/femi ... efined.htm

These two are some wonderful article I found and they touch on many things that feminist manage to ignore every time they talk about these issues.

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"You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club." --Jack London
“One must be careful with words. Words turn probabilities into facts and by sheer force of definition translate tendencies into habits.” ― Fay Weldon
"A writer who waits for ideal conditions under which to work will die without putting a word on paper." -- E.B. WHITE
"I love writing but hate starting. The page is awfully white and it says, "You may have fooled some of the people some of the time but those days are over, giftless. I'm not your agent and I'm not your mommy. I'm a white piece of paper, you wanna dance with me?" And I really, really don't." -- Aaron Sorkin

My Completed Games: Christmas

@DragoonHP: Thank you so much for posting these... It's so nice to see someone post a solid argument like that, the articles are really eye-opening (though not entirely surprising, a lot of the disadvantages to males in western culture should be obvious...). There was also a bit in the first article about people who are attractive/"politically correct" having the advantages, which is often sadly true. The world is full of shallow judgement so much of the time...

If you want to talk about male oppression, or what your precieve as male oppression, that's fine, but this thread is not for it. Male issues don't make female issues any less important or real. This is a bit of a derailment since it has nothing to do with females or games :/ It's not what we are talking about.

I have mentioned multiple times the pressures faced by men forced on them by society, so I'm guessing you missed that. But like I said, that doesn't make what I feel any less real. I really dislike how statements such as these are used to somehow mean that what we are talking about here doesn't matter at all because you say so. And no-one wants to play who has it worse off in the world anyway.

This, however is what we are talking about, coming from the gamer side as opposed to the development side. http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/mens- ... s-now.html

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The other 1/2 of Cyanide Tea l My Deviantart Account I My Tumber Account I Break Chance Memento I Ristorante Amore

What, don't you know? Any discussion about the treatment/depiction of women HAS to include issues relating to men, because they're the important ones here.*

I'd apologize for being snarky, but you know what? I'm not sorry. I'm getting fed up, and my nicey-nice, patient attitude is wearing very thin.

On a related note: gotta love the comments in this article. And this follow-up article. Also, since Aleema made an earlier post with Strong Female Characters (TM), here: False Equivalence.

*A.k.a. WHAT ABOUT DA MENZ??, which seems to appear in every topic like this

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I lie awake at night wondering what fresh hell tomorrow will bring me.

***Say You Love Me***Human Enough***Cheerful!Polymorph [NaNo12][Complete!]***


*Website, yo*

I apologise if I had missed that, but it is easier to miss that under the text dump here.

And I didn't intend to talk about male oppression; I was just trying to show that everything for males isn't as easy as feminist portray it to be. Half of the thread is about that, when it was originally supposed to be a discussion about games. While I agree there aren't many games that may appeal to female gamers right now, the gaming industry has started to cater to the the feamel audience too and the rise in that is evident.



*Stopped reading after the first line*

And I suppose we need to talk about women's because well, they are *supposed* to be the oppressed one. Or perhaps we should talk about them because well... we need to.

There is a difference between discussion and outright denial of facts; no matter how good a fact is shown, you will always... always find some kind of fault in it; it's almost as if these posts shout, "Either you are our friend or enemy."
Remarkable isn't it.

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"You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club." --Jack London
“One must be careful with words. Words turn probabilities into facts and by sheer force of definition translate tendencies into habits.” ― Fay Weldon
"A writer who waits for ideal conditions under which to work will die without putting a word on paper." -- E.B. WHITE
"I love writing but hate starting. The page is awfully white and it says, "You may have fooled some of the people some of the time but those days are over, giftless. I'm not your agent and I'm not your mommy. I'm a white piece of paper, you wanna dance with me?" And I really, really don't." -- Aaron Sorkin

My Completed Games: Christmas

But you did, and you wouldn't be the first to do it. Games are generally geared at males. That is why people are saying men have the benefit in this aspect. It's also very hard to change because people sometimes don't see a problem where others do. Read this, I really mean it. These are the attitudes against females having a part in games, and is generally what we are talking about. It's not reprsentatory of all men, or all gamers, but it does exist. Once you read a couple of the posts you can probably get an idea of what is going on against female game development. All I am asking for is a little understanding of the situation as a whole (talking purely about games).

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The other 1/2 of Cyanide Tea l My Deviantart Account I My Tumber Account I Break Chance Memento I Ristorante Amore

@DragoonHP: ...You're really missing the point. We're talking about women here because that is the TOPIC. If you want to start a topic about men how hard it is to be a man, or problems men face, fine, go ahead. That is not the topic here.

But yes, disregard the entire post because of that one line; I'm sure next I'll get something along the lines of the 'tone' argument, and how I should be nice or polite, even though up to this point I've had the patience of a saint.

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I lie awake at night wondering what fresh hell tomorrow will bring me.

***Say You Love Me***Human Enough***Cheerful!Polymorph [NaNo12][Complete!]***


*Website, yo*