Lemma Soft Forums

Yay!
I'm beaming with joy and excitement today because the game I've been pouring myself into for a year and a half has been officially released! For those of you following the Zenith Chronicles updates, you can get the game here (web store or Impulse - please leave a good rating if you get it from Impulse ^^):

http://www.mangodrop.com/zenith/game.html
Use the coupon code "LSF15" at the Mango Drop Store for 15% off!
I will probably be raising the price from $9.99 to $14.99 in the future since a $9.99 price makes people think it is just a casual shooter game. However, it's actually more VN/RPG-like and has quite a bit of story and depth. So now is your chance to pick it up for a low $8.49!

Animetric has reviewed the game (site contains adult content, but the game itself is for ages 15+): Animetric Review

Thanks to Taleweaver for an excellent script, and the rest of the non-LSF mangos for the art and music!

So let me take a moment to give you the official spiel

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“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.”
- Napoleon Bonaparte

I've retired from forum administration. Please direct admin/mod issues to PyTom or the other mods : )

Is anyone on the forum playing this? The game's gotten sales, but I'm surprised it's been 5 days since release and not a single reply to this thread - Every other thread in the last month in "Completed Games" has gotten at least one reply...

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“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.”
- Napoleon Bonaparte

I've retired from forum administration. Please direct admin/mod issues to PyTom or the other mods : )

I don't know if this is the case, but despite sticky topics being intended to get more attention, a lot of people instinctively glaze over them and look down to where they expect the 'real' topics to be.

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Hanako Games

Oh? I didn't see this thread at all. If I don't sign in and only view the recent posts page, would sticky matter?

also, is it possible the customers just haven't gotten around to playing it? btw, just purchased it. I'll be finished tomorrow.

Some good points, so I unstickied it ^^

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“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.”
- Napoleon Bonaparte

I've retired from forum administration. Please direct admin/mod issues to PyTom or the other mods : )

In that case, let me mention that Zenith Chronicles is easy enough for pretty much everyone to get the full plot including all side stories, but unlocking all bonus content is dastardly difficult! The point system for the extras essentially requires you to complete the (already tricky) Legends on harder play modes, which can be challenging if you're good at these sort of games but are nigh-impossible to do for your average casual action gamer. I'm VERY glad I mentioned to at least unlock the first small glances at some bonus content, but I probably won't see all there is to see. Ever. (Unless I manage to get over my frustration with the difficulty.)

So if you think you're a hardcore gamer: Game this.

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Scriptwriter and producer of Metropolitan Blues
Scriptwriter and director of Daemonophilia
Scriptwriter of Zenith Chronicles
Writer for Pet Project II: Heavy Petting
More about me in my blog

Just a comment on the website - I find it weird having to go to a separate page just to get the demo. I've always seen the demo and the buy now buttons on the same page. Why not just make a download page and put both buy now and demo buttons there? One last thing, why doesn't the header for the Zenith pages scale to 100%? The rest of the body does and it's a bit queer seeing the body wrap to the full size of the screen and the header doesn't... Just my 2 cents. Ignore if you wish. C:

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Ren'ai Games (Archived)
Manga Tutorials
The Ultimate Indie Game Developer Resource List

please tell me I don't have to accomplish every single legend on hard to unlock the last couple extras. Cause seriously, there's levels that i purposely set on easy not due to difficulty but because I couldn't stand the visuals long enough. the sprites are fine, but the way the shots are portrayed is seriously bad. not in the sense of low quality but in the sense of bad for the eyes. It makes me wonder how you could have the nerve to put a warning about extended play.

I've gotten 5 endings, including the true ending, and I've already
From that much, I can say you did a very good job at artificially extended the play time. Was there really any purpose to rendering meredith useless during one of the boss fights? plus, on top of that your system for saving requires the player to constantly be skipping through the same material over and over again, which doesn't take up that much actual time, but in the context of a game in the primary gameplay element requires concentration and speed, it's well more than enough time wasted to the player's interest.

i did think the extras and some of the dialog were amusing, but really, the only motivation I have left to continue is the possibility of

oh, and on the subject of "bullet hells". I thought I'd mention that beyond the first couple of missions on any path, you've set it up so the player can be killed in two or three hits. If you compare this to a traditional bullet hell, which gives around three lives and two bombs, you've set it up as more aggravating. especially since you restricted the amount of the space the player can move to (which really makes no sense with the missions you came up with such as the one with the wall of spike mine that are supposed to be destroyed) as well as the several points in the game where just bad luck can result in getting killed instantly (meredith's energy blast after she backs up, shades desecration, etc.)

I'm sad you had a frustrating experience with the game. I'm a little confused by some of the things you said, though. I'm releasing an update with some gameplay changes and a story-lite mode, so I would really appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit
"the sprites are fine, but the way the shots are portrayed is seriously bad. not in the sense of low quality but in the sense of bad for the eyes." - Examples in particular? Are you playing on a desktop or a laptop? I haven't heard this complaint before, so I'm interested.

"your system for saving requires the player to constantly be skipping through the same material over and over again" - I don't get what you mean here. Can you explain please?

"just bad luck can result in getting killed instantly (meredith's energy blast after she backs up, shades desecration, etc.)" - Some enemy attacks are very powerful, but I tried to make sure there was always a way around them. If you can find the pattern of how the attacks time their projectiles, you can evade with 100% success. Also, certain skills, like Dark Soul (for Desecration) will cut the damage from a lot of these attacks quite a bit. I tried to balance Meredith's attack power with low HP so even if you got one-shotted, not much would be lost. But again, I'm reevaluating the gameplay difficulty.

Thanks for the feedback.

(edit: By the way, you can skip dialogue with the "a"/"change fire" button and set if you want to skip all dialogue or just dialogue you've seen on a previous playthrough in the Options menu. Were you aware of that? I may need to make it a more prominent feature since it's fully intended to be used after the first play.)

_________________
“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.”
- Napoleon Bonaparte

I've retired from forum administration. Please direct admin/mod issues to PyTom or the other mods : )

on the shots being badly portrayed, I'm playing on a laptop. Throughout the game there are times where shots camouflage with the background. It's merely annoying if they go invisible for just a moment, but in levels like the one were you forcefully break into shade's castle, you have a huge number of shots on the screen that are just barely visible. This is only made worse by the shot animations which make them look almost like they're flickering, as well as because of the choice of colors (almost all of the camouflaging shots are bright ones).

the specific one that I was thinking of, though, that I just flat out don't want to go through again is the battle against selene. Those x shaped shots that fade in and out are really aggravating to look at.
that goes for the second mission against her that I unlocked since last posting as well ('the last straw')

on the subject of the save system, I did in fact find the skip button. I searched for it quite a bit cause I was unwilling to read anything again. the problem is that I had to go all the way through the story every time i wanted to test a different choice, as well as a couple times i had to specifically go to the restarting ending just to get back to the beginning.

on the difficulty complaint, it isn't the amount of difficulty I have a problem with (though I am curious if you actually tested your hard mode to make sure every legend is possible). it's the way it's made difficult. restricting the player's movement in an aerial shooting game goes against the basic aspect of the player trying to maintain mobility. It's not so bad if it's because of wall of shots, but your restriction felt like hitting a sudden invisible wall. Also, your timing for the exploding shots felt pretty random throughout the whole game so unless you expect the player to do some serious memorization, they can't be considered from the player's side as having a pattern. the reason i specifically pointed out the battle against meredith is because her energy blast (i don't remember the actual name and I don't feel like looking it up) can have range across the full screen, forcing the player to move through them, even though that risks them exploding half-way through the dodge for a one-shot. this kind of situation should never be given in any type of game.

Thank you for the information. Every player's experience is helpful!

Shots: I think this may be partially due to your laptop monitor because many others who have played have not raised this issue. One person didn't care for the Selene flashing shots, however, and I will tone those down on next update. I'll also specifically look into the camo-issue more.

Story skipping/endings: Since you can skip story and skip missions you've completed, it only takes a couple of minutes to skip through an entire path. Therefore, I didn't worry much about the time for getting to an end again. I might put in a "Restart Story" option after you've made it through once, though, for more convenience.

Difficulty: I did test the legends on hard to make sure they're possible, and they are. I certainly don't expect players to get every one, though, and I don't expect everyone to unlock every single thing, either. Some people will be skilled enough and willing to practice enough to do it, but many won't, but that is no different than in a lot of games. The "invisible wall" was a design decision for a few reasons, but you don't need to cross it. Most shots should generally be dodged from the far left of the screen, but I think prior experiences with other shooters might lead some people to expect something different. The game was never meant to be a clone of anything else, and people who come into it with fresh eyes (less shooter experience) tend not to have an issue with the wall. The update I'm working on will increase player HP, and I will also change the exploding of the energy shots as you suggest.

I'm a bit confused by your experience, though, since on one hand each of your comments has been negative. But on the other hand, you played through all the paths, several endings, and have replayed missions and tried to get the legends. So you must be getting some enjoyment out of it. What do you like about the game?

_________________
“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.”
- Napoleon Bonaparte

I've retired from forum administration. Please direct admin/mod issues to PyTom or the other mods : )

I find your logic baffling, but that is interesting to find out.



well, admittedly, my total game time couldn't have reached more than 10 hours total (off the top of my head estimate), which isn't that much for completing a video game, at least for me anyway. Still, you're right. despite all the things I disliked (which I only mentioned the major ones, btw), i did thoroughly enjoyed the story, even if only for the laughs. that's actually part of why I got annoyed at the save system, as I would've preferred to just save at each choice and read them one after another. I also think the game's concept isn't bad either. Especially the ability system. Most of your absurd mission were pretty creative too.

the reason I've been so negative is because I'd really like to see the amateur game community get better, hopefully to the point where my friends are willing to play these games too (the only one they were accepting of was recettear). ...and it is was on sale, so i felt I could afford it.

If I may: Thank you; it was a difficult job to balance out a dramatic, epic story with enough funny, tongue-in-cheek situations to lighten it up a little. (The were my original idea, for example...)

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Scriptwriter and producer of Metropolitan Blues
Scriptwriter and director of Daemonophilia
Scriptwriter of Zenith Chronicles
Writer for Pet Project II: Heavy Petting
More about me in my blog

Uh, I thought I had reached one ending...

But then it seemed the story seemed to seemlessly loop back to the beginning. I thought "Credits, where?"
Was that purposeful? I mean it's okay I guess if that was done by design, but the problem is that your save system is not robust enough.

When I press ESC it just quits the game without any warning, and I'm left with the last autosave.

Is there a way to jump to a specific point in the story using the mission select system?

Yes, that is on purpose. This is alluded to in the Mango Message and is one way you get back to the beginning to try another path

You cannot story-jump from Mission Select, but you can skip read text with the "a"/"change fire" button and skip missions you've completed by pausing during the mission and selecting "Skip Mission". This lets you get back to any point in the story you've been before very quickly, while still being able to make different decisions at various points and change your good/evilness in certain missions.

_________________
“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.”
- Napoleon Bonaparte

I've retired from forum administration. Please direct admin/mod issues to PyTom or the other mods : )