Lemma Soft Forums

Well, in my case the main motivation wasn't piracy but I had to find both a solution good for me and for the end users to get the full game. You can't imagine how many support requests I get from people to redownload old games they bought!
Classic email "I bought game XYZ a FEW YEARS ago but now I changed computer...". I was wasting several minutes each day for this, so I had that idea, and is probably the best one I had this year. Nobody complains, everyone is happy because they don't even need to ask me anything, they just have to remember their own email

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Eh can't you add an information like, "You need to use your email address that you used to purchase the game to ask our support." or something like that? @.@

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I don't understand what you mean
My problem was that people lost the download links after months/years and I had to resend/regenerate them. With the new system they all have to do is redownload the game demo and remember their own email (so they don't even need to ask me).

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Ah I see. Sorry for my bad understanding ><
I thought that the problem is that you need to check if they really bought the game or not.

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well, I always take in serious consideration Jack's opinions and practical experience in indie dev and selling, but I must always disagree on copy protection, whose life expectancy is always too short. If jack in his "recent facts" whose has turned him skeptical on humanity refer to the major hacking offensive, I think that is also sony reaping what they have sown, not understanding what was the *actual* protection of the play3 (that was, the Linux sandbox) Removing the so-called "otherOs" feature the P3 gets wide open in a matter of month, if not weeks. but I'm digressing....

On the point, copy protection is more in advantage of large producers than indie devels, because the legal enforcing of DRMs, esp. in countries like US or UK (that is, common right), is too costly, and IMRHO an indie dev must carefully balance the DRM/CP side of the budget (Indie games have also the advantage of often passing under the radar of the crackers, but is definitively an unreliable and random factor)

Last point, the piracy problem; on the console gaming, is the second jaw of the pincer whose are destabilizing the large-business development, the other is the royalties market model (hence the root causes of the incoming (and inevitable) second and greater videogame market crash) the current legal framework, as I understand, is much more in the advantage of the royalties rights, and don't deter pirates/crackers and hackers start to be really PO of the state of things. But (again !) I digress... There will be always piracy, because of the intrinsic qualities of the binary media, and for everyone, from the smallest indie to the largest sw house, the point is the damage control/containment, so to speak.

And lest not forget that videogames, together with high-specialized vertical applications is the last redoubt of the closed-source & propiertary software market.

my 2 euro (euro because of the size of this wall of text ) and

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

My disappointment was that someone in a forum (not this one) begged me to help him get one of my games on a "unconnected PC", and by pure coincidence that game was on all warez sites 2 days after using the technique I explained to him... I was more disappointed than pissed, since I always want to help my customers, but I felt cheated


I don't understand what you mean with this. Videogames, especially indie ones, are a work of love and art, lightyears away from the carbon-copy sequels you see in console/commercial AAA titles, and I hope they'll always exist

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hmmm.... my apologies, Jack, for not being 100% clear, but at least you get part of the point when you wrote "work of love and art", because videogames, you known better than me, are content-centered, and this keeps viable the propiertary game market, both big corporations and small indies, albeit with different handling of content-generation, as you correctly point.

Also, I appreciate your handling of the social engineering against you. You're correct in being more disappointed than PO'd because hackers, both white and black hats, are rather apt in this, I daresay even superior to the con artists. you have not only my solidarity, but also my full understanding.

(I have not few thought on game dev and crafting in general, but I suspect that these don't belong to this specific thread)

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

Meh, I doubt hackers would target indie games just because they decided to protect their games. Considering how Blizzard is keeping Diablo III online all the time, it's pretty clear what's happening to the pc game market. Thing is, I think pirates are trying to make the game makers the bad guys. Just because the game makers want compensation for all the hard work/time/money poured into making a new game. C'mon people! If you have access to the internet and a computer (which you obviously do if you're complaining on the internet or downloading illegally), then you can access the full download or purchase. If you want people to make these great games, you have to show support!

Even though that is so simple, most people will look for a free alternative. Everywhere on youtube or the internet, I see people begging for free copies. It's sad, but I honestly think that if you don't have some form of copy protection...people are going to take advantage. Because all it takes is one uploaded copy to stay on the internet forever.

It's just strange. In my personal and particular case, I used to get "free" games on the internet, until I began to work and earn my own salary, that I spent into buying games I wouldn't even have thought of buying until then.
It's not even a question of morality, it's just that because I could afford buying games, I just... bought them. I knew that I could buy them and did so.
Or maybe is it because I don't know what to do with my money ^^;
So maybe people want freebies just because they can't afford the games or don't have the will to think about buying them.

Now the most weirdest question would be: why do people redistribute proprietary games? what do they seek through that act? Is it an existencial gesture, like "hey guys look, I didn't make that game but I take all the credits!"?
I think copy protections are worth what they are worth of: gain of time before the game is spread for free.

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^ I agree.

Haven't you answered your own question? 'Because they can'. Also, it's fairly accurate to say that many geeks like knowing things that others don't (in a superiority sense); tech geeks are the only ones with the knowledge/skills required to break semi-competent copy protections. In this case, it perfectly makes sense -- if they are the first to release it, they were the 'only one's with the knowledge required to crack the game in such a short time. This definitely is the main factor behind the existence of '0 day cracks/warez'.. Beating everyone else to it, 'winning' in a competition of knowledge and cleverness.
In a sense, this has actually decreased -- if you look at some 8bit computer cracks, they're practically mini demos -- big productions! At that time, cracking or tape->discing software had even more status amongst the people who cared at all: it was much harder, done with considerably inferior tools, less brute forcing and more cleverness.
(although arguably, also more useful: tape loading was pretty tiresome to put up with)

Of course some such people do have the kind of attitude you describe. I would describe it a bit differently though :
"The only value of this game is in my entertainment cracking it" / "it's not worth money cause it's only X, Y, and Z, and that's just not up to my [most likely artificially high] standards". (of course, in order to crack a game, someone must buy it -- frequently the cracker. In this case, I suggest it's either a compulsion (compare to kleptomania), or they regard the price as more for their cracking entertainment (and 'first!' ness) than entertainment derived from actually playing it.

Maybe try to send a DMCA takedown notice to the warez site owner? I heard that it's pretty effective

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Yeah, but there are way too many sites that have illegally uploaded games. I'm sorry but it'd be pretty near impossible to find them all. Even after you find them, what's going to keep them from uploading again?

Sad thing is, I know morality isn't considered in this. People just don't feel like downloading a commercial game is stealing because they're used to being able to download whatever they want on the internet. But a copy protection buys time and maybe there'll be a copy protection that won't be broken (currently there isn't, but when that day comes...). I honestly believe that if you don't have some form of copy protection, you'll be plagued with a ridiculous amount of piracy/stealing. So please, just protect your future work. I'm sick of seeing companies I like fall to pieces because no one would pay for the games they downloaded.

@Hikkipanda
My friend who found it already reported as well, though, like what applegirl said, it's just a matter of time for someone else to reupload it or sharing it with anyone else.

So seriously, if anyone know/ have a hint about how to add protection, please tell me ><.

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@Chu-3 and Applegirl

A long time ago, I read about a guy named Cliffski, he spent several minutes everyday sending DMCA notice to those warez site. He has a template ready, so it's not really that time consuming I think since he only need to change the address for each email he sent. You have google to trackdown those sites. He claimed that it was pretty effective.

Yeah, in the end, it's a battle of tenacity ^^;

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Hehe that guy is my friend, and now he moved to online-games (his next one will have exclusive "you must be online" requirements). He was sad, but had no other choice. I fear most of games will be like that in a few years, and the fault will be only of pirates, not developers

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