Lemma Soft Forums

For those of you who are unfamiliar with the term, "elephant in the room" refers to an obvious problem or fact that no one wants to talk about. They're usually highly controversial or taboo topics that lead to a lot of nasty arguments, such as the debate over drug abuse, abortion, extramarital affairs, suicide, etc. In short, everyone tries to ignore the issue at hand because it's uncomfortable to talk about.

Now that's where my question comes in: is it okay for VN makers to address the metaphorical elephants, or should we just continue to ignore them? I realize that some people will react negatively when the issue is presented, but I don't like acting as if the problem doesn't exist at all. The elephants must be sad because no one pays attention to them :c My personal opinion on the matter is that it's fine as long as you keep the discussion at a civil, non-aggressive level. If both sides aren't directly attacked in a way that's meant to provoke simply for the sake of pissing people off, then I'm fine with it.

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The sad reality is... it's almost impossible to keep a civil, non-aggressive discussion when discussing things like... the elephant.

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Most "controversial" things are things people are scared of or issues they have been raised to hate all their life. If you yourself do not hate the situation and simply want to tell it how it is, then yeah, write it! You shouldn't worry about people getting offended if you're not out to offend- if they're offended, that's their problem and since you don't mean to insult them you are not at fault.

This hits home with me because I find that almost all of my stories relate to either slavery, discrimination or forbidden relationships (usually homosexuality or transgenderism)- I want to create characters players can sympathise with, characters that go through hardships and pain but come out winning because they work hard. A lot of people would probably be offended by some of the things I write, but honestly my goal is not to offend, I really want to show them how it feels to suffer from injustice so they can understand others' pain and be more sympathetic.

I usually just address it with my personal opinion on it, regardless of the fact people will inevitably be offended by it.
Everyone is offended by something, liberal use of "bad language", racial slurs, drug use, whether or not God exists

If people keep dodging the issue it's the same as giving up your right to say whatever the hell you want to say and I'm deeply offended by people who do so.
I'm also offended by people who take offense to my opinions and then have a go at me because doing so is hypocritical.

If you want to throw out racial slurs like there's no tomorrow, 9/11 jokes ect... feel free to do so.
You're allowed to write whatever the hell you want, that's the beauty of free speech and all that.

Why not? Every other medium does it. The thing is the stories do not necessarily reflect the writer, the characters are not them. Just because you write about something doesn't mean you believe it, support it, refute it, whatever. Just because you write a sexist or racist characters, doesn't mean you yourself are such. Sometimes it is about exploring different points of view, highlighting problems, creating conflict, discussing an issue. All these things can be achieved. If people get mad about it, good! People are talking about it. But, be prepared for peoples reactions, not everyone is going to agree with you. I do support the issues being realistically portrayed though. Sometimes people show something very negative and dangerous in a postive light with no explaination of how that is going to work *aka Twilight*.

That said, don't chuck in 'issues' just because you can. They are not going to suit all types of stories and you are going to have to do your research really well to pull it off. I do not suggest trying to do so half heartedly since these things are serious and people will take them to heart. I definitly think people should write about them, but for the right reasons.

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I don't see why not. All the other mediums are doing it, and you don't want to be left out, do you? I mean, someone has to tackle these Big Issues, right? Why not us*?

*Of course, by us, I mean the general VN community. I won't actually be doing anything about it.

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"So what do you think? If my past-self saw me now, would she praise me?" - Megurine Luka, "Double Lariat"

This.

But don't be afraid to write about stuff like that if it does fit the tone of your story. These things exist in real life. Sometimes people get tired of playing something that's all sunshine and rainbows and might want to get to know characters who experience the same things they do.

Case in point... I have a story in mind that takes place in the American South, near the end of the civil war. If you know anything about that period, you know that African-Americans were slaves. I am 100% against racism, but that doesn't mean the slavery didn't happen, and I'm not going to pretend it didn't happen to appease the people who don't want to be reminded that it happened.

So... don't pretend things that exist, don't exist, simply for other people's comfort, because nobody is forcing them to read your story.

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Hm... I see. I won't point fingers, but there are some groups that tend to overreact at the smallest things. It's good to know that this forum doesn't have a bunch of hypersensitive people lurking around, waiting to pounce on everything and make a big deal out of it.


That was a terrible pun, by the way.

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I've swapped accounts to CheeryMoya, so this account is no longer in use. Refer to the new account if you want to contact me.

Twinturtle Games Website

The biggest things to be careful of, probably, are:

1. All your characters (or at least all the 'good' ones) agree on the subject, for no obvious reason.

2. Writing a viewpoint you disagree with and don't understand can turn into a bad strawman.

You don't have to make everything perfectly fair and balanced. Both sides of an issue are NOT necessarily equally right. But if you really can't understand why someone feels that X is wrong, writing a big speech for that character saying "X Is Wrong Because It Just Is" is not a good way to handle it.

edit: Oh yeah, I should add that:

3. Characterising the opposition as "oversensitive" types who are "looking for something to be offended about". Don't. Just don't.

I meant that in-story, of course, but the same applies to authors. If you write about sensitive issues (or even if you don't! You CANNOT predict everything that will tick people off) you are going to upset someone sometimes. That doesn't mean either you or they are bad people.

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I don't know, I've begun to hate those kind of things (addressing what may be considered controversial, I mean). And don't misunderstand, not because the message is bad/offensive/whatever (I'm insanely hard to offend; seriously), but because of how it's done/presented.

For example, while I don't disagree that rainforests need to be saved, I can't take Ferngully seriously. While yes, racism and prejudice are bad, I don't appreciate being beat over the head with the message. (Seriously, the song Savages in Pocahontas? "They're not like you and me, which means they must be evil"? Jesus Christ, I GET IT. I got it like an hour ago) I've so *rarely* come across things with some sort of message to impart that doesn't treat me like I've got massive head trauma, it's hard for me to trust them.

Now, I'm not saying that you would do that, but if you come out and explicitly state "It's about the trials/oppression/discrimination against someone who's X" or some such, I'm going in extremely wary.

Sapphi: I imagine you'll be all right, long as you don't go all 'Song of the South' with it. >x>

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@Mink: Ferngully and Pocahontas are geared towards children, though... It's not surprising that they have to be more obvious about the sentiments so that kids get it and really see that racism is bad, etc.

Back to the OP, I think as long as you don't treat these issues as some sort of gimmick and as long as you try to approach things with care, sensitivity, and a hint of realism, I think that it's fine. I mean, the worst that could happen is that some people won't like your game and will say nasty things about it, but so what? It's impossible to please everyone.

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I think a thing people should note is that if you choose to focus on an issue in your game/story, it doesn't mean you have to lecture people. Sometimes it can come across okay (sending messages to kids is a bit of a blurry issue sometimes) but I agree with Mink that sometimes it can come across a bit... pretentious. As an adult, I don't particuarly like being told what I shoud or shouldn't think and it is probably the quickest way to annoy me. The message should be more of a discussion sometimes, rather than a one way lecture. Nothing is ever two dimensional and each charcter would most likely approuch it in a different way. Take abortion. The choose the character makes is going to factor on how old she is, if she has a partner, can she raise the child, are there complications, is she religious, what the child's life be like. And the reactions of the characters around her will all depend on there own outlook and you can bet your bottom dollar they won't all agree. If your stroy features someone who does or doesn't have a baby for a specific reason and everyone agrees and is aokay with that, I would be suspisous. These issues are controversal for a reason and no matter what you personal believe, there is always AT LEAST another opposing view.

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Yeah, but just because it's for kids doesn't mean you have to go at it with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the back of the skull. I guess saying that sounds, to me, too similar to people who say, "Why are you criticizing it? It's for kids!" As if being a kids' movie means you don't have to try (I'm not saying you're actually saying that, though).

But on topic, I'm all for enlightened messages and topics that may not be discussed often for fear of offense, and by all means go ahead. But I won't tolerate something that is insulting my intelligence.

Also, similar to what was said before, writing a certain character doesn't necessarily mean you agree with them. Though there is a point where it can start to feel like someone's speaking through a character which is what Frank Miller's Holy Terror sounds like, that's just something you'd have to watch for (sometimes laying it on too thick can come across that way).

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I lie awake at night wondering what fresh hell tomorrow will bring me.

***Say You Love Me***Human Enough***Cheerful!Polymorph [NaNo12][Complete!]***


*Website, yo*

I think it depends a lot on the way it's presented. No one likes preaching. I even roll my eyes when a piece tries to preach a point that i agree with. The "elephant" is definitely something that should be discussed. Important things won't go away if we pretend they don't exist.

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Hm... I think it's possible to deal with these issues, but I suspect they're the sort of issues that have to be either addressed in depth, or ignored. You can't have a drug-dealer as an important character and ignore that aspect of her.

One interesting thing is that a visual novel can subtly ask the user for his position on an issue, and then turn that back on him regardless of what he answered. So if he's an anti-drug type, present him with a story of a family destroyed by the father being sent to prison. If he's an anti-drug-war type, show him the story of a productive person destroyed by drugs.

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