What is your opinion about using 3D art?

[ImmortalDreams]

I've been working on the lighting a bit more. Does this look any better?

[bunny-gypsy]

I think it looks a bit better (the second pic on the bottom, I mean), but I'm not a 3D artist/expert. (I'm still a beginner/newbie at 3D, heh.)

Maybe to help yourself to decide, you can do one or more scenes (any scenes from your story)
with a set of "placeholder" sprites: one set in your 2D styles and another set in your 3D styles.
Include some dialogue/text in Ren'py and put the placeholder sprites for those scenes
(with rigged/morphed facial expressions for the 3D ones, of course ).

Then, from there, just compare and contrast and choose the ones (2D or 3D) that you yourself feel
would fit your story the best. It's your own story, so just go with your feelings and
experiment and have fun!

*edited*
(Apparently, my monitor is too bright, lol!)

[LateWhiteRabbit]

I think it looks a bit better, but I'm not a 3D artist/expert. (I'm still a beginner/newbie at 3D, heh.)

::Raises hand:: I am!

No, it isn't better. It's worse than the second set of images you made, unfortunately.

The first image is far too dark. The second is a little overblown, and has no shadows being cast. To get good lighting, you are going to need raycast shadows. I'm not sure if iClone has that option or not, but if it does, you need to use it.

You should study and learn about 3-point lighting, where you have a key light, a fill light, and a rim light.
3-point lighting

Secondly, you should really study and understand light itself to know how to pick colors and how to set up your lights.
Understanding Lighting

Keep trying, you'll get there.

[ImmortalDreams]

Thank you Late White Rabbit for all your advice and help. I read the the tutorials and decided to work on my lighting again. I really would like to use 3D if I can, so good lighting means a lot to me.
Sorry if it still sucks
Here are the new images:

[Auro-Cyanide]

You could dump the image in a image editing program to adjust the lighting. Most 3D stuff goes through an image editor anyway to fix colours and such. Here is what I did, all of it was just with a big soft brush and was very quick. The main thing you are forgetting is the way the light glows and the fact everything should be casting a shadow according to the light. I would personally also add reflections to the table top, but I didn't in the example.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

Thank you Late White Rabbit for all your advice and help. I read the the tutorials and decided to work on my lighting again. I really would like to use 3D if I can, so good lighting means a lot to me.
Sorry if it still sucks
Here are the new images:

You are losing the most important focal point of your scene - the characters. Remember, if you want the focus to be on the characters, the light needs to draw the viewer's eye to them. I still don't see any shadows being cast. Look at the dining room set. Where are the shadows the chairs should be casting on the floor? The same for the characters in your first image. No model is casting shadows on other models, only self-shadowing themselves. Again, look up ray casting and shadows for iClone. Though not absolutely correct, Auro-Cyanide's corrections are in this vein and are an improvement. And yes, not all of this has to be done in the 3D application. Professionals actually render out separate passes (the color channels, the lights, the shadows, the ambient occlusion, etc.) and mix and adjust them to perfection in applications like Photoshop, thus giving them total control.

Also, be sure to use COLOR in your lights. I see you are using orange and yellow now, but you can mix that up. Your lighting scheme doesn't have to be purely realistic to be effective - in fact, it probably shouldn't be purely realistic. For instance, a lot of 3D models are displayed with a blue light for the key light and an orange for the fill light, plus a brighter blue (almost white) for the rim light. This works so well because blue and orange are complimentary colors that go well together. Use a color wheel to help you decide how to choose colors for lights while considering what mood you want to evoke.


Take a look at this image of Joker from the new Arkham City game:

You have the cool blue light as the key light, with a hot orange light providing contrast and accentuating the edges of the character while pulling double duty as both a fill and rim light. (You don't always need both.)

Or this one of Batman, notice the orange key light, and the blue fill light:


The orange and blue light color combo is almost a cheat it works so well - another example from a movie:

The orange light is the key, the blue is the fill. Which color you choose to make dominant in this set-up effects the mood. Blue will gives the impression of cold, sadness, the night, sterile, high-tech, etc. while orange implies warmth, the sun, the day, low-tech, fire, etc.

This color scheme pops up on a lot of movie posters as well:



Speaking of Shutter Island - notice in the following shots, that scenes taking place on the island in the present have a cold, blue filter applied, making them seem haunted and depressing, while the other scenes pictured here, flashbacks to happier times, are lit with an orange and yellow palette. Notice too the almost overblown white rim lighting on the characters in those scenes which creates a "halo" effect, emphasizing that these scenes are a dream and memory and thus, slightly unreal.


Now, about lighting for focus, take the following scene:

The character isn't the most important thing in this shot, even though he is in the center. The emphasis here is on the environment, and that is what the director wants us to focus on, with the character really only being there for scale reference.

Here we have the reverse set-up:

The characters are the emphasis and focal point, not the background, even though it is just as in focus and more brightly lit. However, notice the rim lighting on the characters and how it cuts them out of the background. The dark shape of their bodies act as negative cut-outs, drawing our eye while emphasizing the dark mood both are in.

Look at movies and games and see how they use light. Really study them. If you have any questions, ask away.

[ImmortalDreams]

Thanks for the tips. I'll work on it.

P.S I can't believe I forgot the shadows! All that time looking at the images and I didn't even notice?! (I feel stupid...)

[ImmortalDreams]

Okay, so the lighting is still probably really bad but I worked on the orange and blue light technique and I added shadows. I want the scene to be dark and scary and I want the lamp on the desk, but that takes away from the characters.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

Okay, so the lighting is still probably really bad but I worked on the orange and blue light technique and I added shadows. I want the scene to be dark and scary and I want the lamp on the desk, but that takes away from the characters.

It's starting to look much better.

But you are right, the bright lamp and corner are diverting the focus from your characters. Look at how movies handle dark and scary scenes:

The girl is obviously in a dark and scary place at night, but she is brightly lit. This is both so the audience can still see her (important, since if your audience can't see, they can't know what is going on), and it also emphasizes that fact that she is brightly lit in the darkness and thus vulnerable. Hence, the audience becomes nervous or scared for her, especially if we have established something is in that dark and fog . . . .


Here is one of the most traditional ways. The room doesn't matter (you've hopefully done an establishing shot for the scene before this one), so we see the environment, the set, vanishes into darkness, leaving only our character visible . . .


Or our character AND the monster visible.

One problem that is hampering you is your choice of angle for the shot isn't very good. Why not try a lower angle shot, or a medium shot in closer to the characters? If you want to keep the lamp, why not have your characters talking around it, and show the shot from a low angle? The lamp will give them an orange key underlighting, which you can accentuate with a blue fill (to simulate moonlight through a window, for instance), the room will be lost in darkness to up the scare factor, and - bonus - faces lit from beneath are pretty spooky.


Do some research on camera angles in film, and what each one is used for. Remember, if you are working in 3D, you are essentially a cinematographer (well, drawing scenes in 2D is true of this as well). And no matter how realistic you are trying to be, replicating the exact conditions of a dark room where neither the character nor the audience can see is not good storytelling, regardless of how accurate it may be.


Don't worry - the monster can't see them! It's pitch black in that basement. The blue key light and rim lighting is only for the benefit of you the audience! In other words, good lighting calls for creativity more than adhering to rigid reality!

[ImmortalDreams]

I changed the angle and applied a black soft brush to the overly lit parts. Does it look better?

[LateWhiteRabbit]

I changed the angle and applied a black soft brush to the overly lit parts. Does it look better?

You've lost a lot of your color information now (though I can still still see a little of it), and the way you have it set up still implies that the lamp is the most important thing in the scene.

Why is it important we see the girl's back? Why not her face? How come the man and woman are kept in shadow? You would never see a movie scene where the main character held a conversation and the camera was focused on their back and not the person they were talking to.

You have to think about the "fiction" of the shot you are creating. Why would three people hold a conversation in the dark, and not stand around the only light source? Keep in mind that in the shot you have now, the man and woman would not be able to see the girl's face.

The girl would be nothing but a silhouette to them, and they would be unable to read her facial expressions, just as she would be unable to read theirs. Do you notice the white edges on the boy in the picture above? That is rim lighting by the way.

As for how most would frame a low shot of someone talking to someone else in a movie, look below:


And this is what I was talking about for low lighting with all the characters around the lamp. You are going to need to move the table to do this.

The image isn't good, but it demonstrates the idea. Three people talking around a table in a dark room with the light source in between them and lighting them from below. Combine that scheme with some blue light as a fill from an unseen window, etc, and you could have a nice set-up.

[ImmortalDreams]

It's supposed to be a spooky scene. The protagonist(the girl) is closest to the camera and in that angle because it seemed a bit more like you were looking through her perspective. This isn't a friendly scene and the two other characters are in shadow to give an ominous feeling. I plan to have a future shot that shows the man(antagonist) in more detail.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

It's supposed to be a spooky scene. The protagonist(the girl) is closest to the camera and in that angle because it seemed a bit more like you were looking through her perspective. This isn't a a friendly scene and the two other characters are in shadow to give an ominous feeling. I plan to have a future shot that shows the man(antagonist) in more detail.

If it is from her perspective, you set up the shot like the second picture in my last shot. And you still need to SHOW the other two characters well, regardless of if they are bad or should be in shadow. You set up the lighting to make them look ominous, but still let the audience SEE them.




Both are still in the dark, but are clearly visible, and they remain ominous and scary. Notice also that the lighting scheme in those two images let us clearly see the antagonists, they also obscure detail and keep them looking mysterious.

The way your shot is now, you are telling the audience that the main character's back is what is most important, or that the lamp is about to explode or make her catch fire or something. If you want to have a scene with her talking that focuses more on her than the antagonists, you need to frame the shot over THEIR shoulders, and illuminate the main character's face so we can see her reactions and possibly fears playing out. See the second image in my post above again.

EDIT:
The table scene is looking much better . . . except where is the shadow of the table itself?

[ImmortalDreams]

What about this?


EDIT
I added shadows to this one and made the table more reflective.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

The dining room table has no shadow being cast, making it look like it's floating.

The lighting is better in the first image, but I'm not sure why you insist on such a high camera angle. It makes it all seem rather impersonal.