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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:46 pm 
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How many games do you think are completed vs. the amount that remain unfinished forever?

Also have you completed any games yourself? What was the hardest part to overcome(coding, artwork, etc)?

I'm working on my first game by myself, i definitely underestimated the amount of time it would take me to finish, but besides that it's going smoothly.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:42 pm 
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I don't think coding, artwork, scripting etc is particularly hard. It's time consuming, but definitely not hard, especially considering you can find help on almost anything.
The hardest part for me is sticking to it. :)
I completed a game a few months ago that took about a year and a half to complete. I did all of the work myself. During that time I gave up for about six months for a variety of reasons: I got distracted by other ideas that seemed more interesting, I hated what I had and I thought everyone else would hate it too, and there were months where I worked so hard that I got burnt out. So really, I think the hardest part about completing a VN is staying determined and focused enough to pour your heart and time into something for so long.
The end result - being able to say you've completed a game - is definitely worth it, though! ^^

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:56 pm 
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It's probably a ratio of, ah, I dunno, say... one to eleventy gazillion.

I have not completed a game yet, because I am a ridiculous perfectionist and would rather spend years making something good than release something mediocre right away. From personal experience, the hardest part to overcome is the story-writing. A lot of planning has to take place before you can actually fabricate anything, which sucks, because you constantly feel like you're doing a ton of work yet you have nothing to show for it. As an artist, it's relatively easy for me to design characters and draw them, but coming up with a story that is worth my time to write and draw for is another thing entirely.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:51 am 
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Completing a small game is relatively easy, that's why most people would advise you to start small. Although one of the biggest problems in game making is actually estimating how much the actual work is going to take. A small project may actually ended up much bigger than you thought.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:16 am 
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Like the others have said, games get harder to complete a they get longer, but the difficulty sort of plateaus. Short projects are much easier to finish, but there isn't much difference in difficulty between completing a long game and a longer game. This is because the biggest problem is commitment, and if you're able to do a long game, you're already pretty committed and should be able to to an even longer game. I've been overambitious and not determined enough in the past and have many unfinished pieces of music and stories. I have my share of completed music and other things as well. The biggest difference between the ones that finished and the ones that I didn't was my motivation. If I really wanted to get something done, I would force myself to continue.

With games, specifically, I don't do too much programming and music and I don't do art at all. As a result, these have been my biggest problems. The thing that is probably most difficult likely varies by person, depending on what that person's skill sets are.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:42 am 
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redeyesblackpanda wrote:
Like the others have said, games get harder to complete a they get longer, but the difficulty sort of plateaus. Short projects are much easier to finish, but there isn't much difference in difficulty between completing a long game and a longer game.

I don't quite agree here. The amount of effort is always exponential.

The first projects I participated in just had a couple dozen images dumped in the game folder. I'm on my first commercial work, and it has over 500 sprites. For one person. Those sprites must also be of good quality.

At the same time, the music has to match, like this:

8-bit graphics / chiptunes
16-bit graphics / MIDI
32-bit graphics / synthesized loops
High Definition graphics / Orchestral soundtrack

When people think of 'big' games today, they think of High Definition games, even within the visual novel community. Sure, somebody can still make a really long 8-bit game. But if you poured so much sweat into a massive project, that project must come off as massive, hence you need the godly art. Then, to justify the impression that the project is massive, you then need 100 CGs in that godly art style.

My personal gauge goes as follows:
5min-30min game: weekend effort for 1 person
1 hour-2 hour game: 2 weeks to 4 months for 2-3 people
3 - 10 hour game: 1 - 2.5 years for 4-6 people (including outsourced contributors)
10+ hour game? (I'm not even willing to think about it since I haven't reached this point and will probably not want to, but you can pretty much deduce from the very few example we have)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:58 am 
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DaFool wrote:
I don't quite agree here. The amount of effort is always exponential.

That's true, but I was speaking more of difficulty than effort. Long games require less effort than longer games, but it's very likely that if you have the commitment to finish a long game, you have the commitment to finish a longer game. I believe that the hardest difficulty to overcome in completing a game is a lack of commitment (you pretty much can't overcome it).

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Not really checking the forums any more due to time constraints, so if you want to contact me, PM. I'll get a notification and log in. :mrgreen:
Also, I've been hit and run posting, which means I don't see many replies. If you want to respond to something I've said, also feel free to PM me.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:01 am 
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DaFool wrote:
My personal gauge goes as follows:
5min-30min game: weekend effort for 1 person
1 hour-2 hour game: 2 weeks to 4 months for 2-3 people
3 - 10 hour game: 1 - 2.5 years for 4-6 people (including outsourced contributors)
10+ hour game? (I'm not even willing to think about it since I haven't reached this point and will probably not want to, but you can pretty much deduce from the very few example we have)

Mmh... my own calculations are slightly different, at least for VNs:

<30min game: 1 week of effort for 1 person including the search for media that person cannot produce alone (art/music)
1-2 hrs: 2-4 weeks for 1-4 people. NaNoRenO is typically like this.
3-10 hr game: 4 months to a year for 4-6 people. Adrift falls into this category.
>10 hr game: > 1 year for 6+ people.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:22 am 
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Hmmm, I'm kinda talking about all-original assets. If everything were off-the-shelf, you can even make a substantial game for Ludum Dare.

One thing I notice consistently with peoples first games is they don't realize how quickly the player is just ploughing through their assets. So starting from their second games and moving forward, the creators will tend to be more conservative will reuse more things.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:35 am 
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DaFool wrote:
Hmmm, I'm kinda talking about all-original assets. If everything were off-the-shelf, you can even make a substantial game for Ludum Dare.

Aside from you, I don't see that many writer/programmer/artist/composer multitalents here. But you're right, a multitalent could make a short game in a weekend, or even one day.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:41 am 
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I think the main difference depends on the gameplay type. My first VN Heileen took me 3 months to make, Planet Stronghold (RPG) about 6 months for example... for VN only, much depends on writer/artist speed since coding is usually quite simple.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:54 am 
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It must take the time it has to take to achieve what you want the game to achieve. Good things take time, and unless you're trying to create something simple to learn, a big well developed VN (or any project) takes from months to years to be finished, plus the time you will have to put to fix possible bugs or making updates.

Just take your time, rushing things is never good (especially if you're in a team) because you can piss off other teammates or even yourself. Always aim to achieve efficiency IMO. It's better to have something with lots of plotholes, buggy or a poor quality game...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:48 pm 
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I'm making my second game at the moment (first one I was making with a friend who basically did nothing and the project quickly died because of lack of interest) and I took a long-ish break because I wasn't happy with my art and I got a writing block. Now I started again and it's progressing slowly :) Though sometimes I have no motivation because I work alone (I want to make my first game alone so I learn how things work, it's the only way things stay in my head) and I get the feeling 'why am I doing this anyway, nobody is interested, this is waste of time QQmoar', but then I kick myself in the arse and start working again. Hopefully I'll finish this experimental game some day :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:52 am 
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I don't think it's hard. It's just... well, you need to be patient. Writing takes longer than drawing the pics if it's a long game (well, my sister would say otherwise, since she's responsible for the drawing ;) ).

Hard it starts to become if your parents limit the artist's time at pc to only one hour a day. Additionally they dislike our hobby, so we have to do it secretly :( But even though progress only is slowly, I don't think it's that hard to get something finished ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:45 pm 
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The hardest part for me is actually starting. The pre-production cycle is the part I enjoy the most. I could plan something out forever and never start :roll: which is the current situation Im in. Ive completed a few small games but none of my "babies" have even started production yet.


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