Lemma Soft Forums

In a rant that follows, I will explain my point of view, why every game developer needs promotion and their own website.

1. Why would you need promotion for your free game?
If you are making commercial games, this (I hope) goes without saying. If you are making free games and don't have a website yet, than you need to realize: free or commercial - it makes no difference, because your goals are essentially the same.

If you don't realize that you need promotion yet, ask yourself a simple question: why are you doing this? Why are you making games?

If your answered "for funsies" (and nothing else), that means you are not going to share the game with anyone, right? You will keep it on your computer, you will play it and never told anyone that you made it. You will not post about in LSF and you will not upload it anywhere. Right? If you do - than there is obviously a different reason, why you made it in the first place...

If you answered "I made the game so it would be played by a lot of people" or "to get praise/fame/recognition" (in addition to funsies, of course), than it would make sense to invest a little time or even money, to promote your game and increase the number of people that will play it.

- You spend *countless hours*, making your game.
- You did it mainly because you want your game to be played by a lot of people.
- If you spend a *little time* promoting it, you will increase, maybe even *multiply* the number of people that will play the game.

Unless you spend only a few hours making your game, you simply NEED to promote it.
All the time you spend making and polishing your game and making it good *will* result in natural promotion. Your new fans will spread the word by various means. BUT this can take A LONG TIME or NEVER HAPPENS, if you are not willing to tell anyone about it. It only takes a small snowball to trigger an avalanche, but wishful thinking won't make it happen.

I you are making a game with somebody else or even in a team, than their motivation is very likely the same as yours - they want praise/fame/recognition - credit.

Even if you are feeling completely apathetic towards your own creation, as a project leader it should be your responsibility to spend a little time on promotion, so all the hard work from the team gets the recognition it deserves.

2. Why you need a website?
Where and how to promote your game, is a large subject. But regardless of what methods you will use for promotion, you will need a website.

Even if you only upload it to games.renpy.org, some untrustworthy file sharing site and post about it in LSF - you still need your own website.

If you are hoping, that your fans will promote your game in their personal blogs, do you really expect them to link to
something like http:/ /www.mediafire.com/download.php?8h89ghf897hfg897fgh897? Any respectable webmaster will link to sites like that with caution.

If I post, on my blog, a review with a link, to such a spammy site, that's filled with advertisements, is bad for my reputation and its hurting my website ranking in Google (not to mention its only a matter of time and all these sites will be dead - along with all the links I have on my blog). If your game download is on such a link, it better be *really* good, if you expect me to still review it. If your game is on your own site, I don't have an issue linking to it, as long as its not really bad.

Another issue your fans will encounter, is the fact, that certain domains (like spammy file sharing sites) are banned from certain social networks. One of your fans may have a lot of followers, but because your game is hosted on a spammy domain, they can't share it.

There's also branding and credibility. By not having your own site, you are lowering the amount of potential players from the start and even more in the long run.

3. You have no excuses!
If you understand the importance of promotion for your pet projects and the importance of your own website for promotion, you might still think there is some excuse for not having a website - such as "it's expensive", "it takes a lot of time" or "it's hard".

You are wrong! It's cheap (or free!), easy and takes about half an hour (not including writing the content for your site).
All you need to know Domain name, hosting and website

If you don't have a website yet - its because you are lazy! With such a first impression, you better have a good "sales pitch", to convince me, you actually put some effort in the game and the reason you don't have a website is because you are ignorant, and not lazy.

You may try saying, as an excuse, that creating content for your site is hard, that you are not a writer or that English is not your native language.

Newsflash: On the web, most of the stuff is crap. If you put a *little* effort into your blog post, your post is already above average. You don't need perfect writing or grammar either. If you provide good information, people will still read it. Maybe you really can't write at all (in which case I'm assuming someone is reading this post to you right now). Who said you need to write at all? Just two words: photoblogs and videoblogs.

Another lame excuse would be, that you are waiting for the right moment. You'll start with promotion and build a website, when your game is complete. This is not just an excuse for procrastination, it's also very very wrong.

Developing your game will take weeks, maybe months. Building a site takes an hour. Writing a 300 word blog post takes another hour.

You can build a blog and keep it updated weekly, before or after the game is complete.

If you start immediately (two hours of your time tops), you will start to get visitors and followers immediately and keep getting trough weeks or months that will follow. When you launch your game, you will already have a following to play it and spread the word about it.

You may also do it the other way. Keep you project hidden from everyone until its finished, than launch it and slowly start to get your first players.

Your goal is for your game to be played. If you are going to do things in the wrong order, you will double the time to reach your goal.

Are you a game creator and still don't have your own website? What's your excuse? Laziness? Ignorance? Or do you think there be something else?

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Free hosting or website for your VN

There ARE game makers on this site who are under 18, live in countries where the 'cheap' cost of websites and hosting ain't so cheap, and/or don't have access to the right methods of payment for paid hosting. Never assume everyone has the same background you do, and don't be mean.

Now, if you're arguing that everyone should have a site because you're offerin them for free, that's different, and just explain to them what they need to do to get one! There are MANY of us who are willing to offer free hosting for projects, but it's not always clear to people how to go about getting hooked up witht hat sort of deal, and some folks are shy about asking. Particularly if it means asking someone who's in the middle of saying "Shame on you!"

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Hanako Games

I think tumblr is good enough for my purposes. I mean, it allows for pages with unique addresses and my blog is there. Until I complete my first commercial game, that'll do, right?

I make games for my friends and family. (Of which, the LSF community is part of)

I make games as a learning process.

I make games because it makes me happy and de-stresses me.

None of those things require me to have a website.

Susan

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In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion. (Anonymous)

@leon

What do you consider as a website?

A free wordpress blog/tumblr/facebook page?
A free website creator (Like Wix.com)?
A free website host (with ads)?
A domain name with your own hosting service (Or hosted by a fellow peer)?

I have to agree with papillon, website hosts/domains aren't affordable or easily maintainable for everyone. Creating a server is out of reach for most people (Uses too much power, updates, etc.)

I'm sorry.



The reason for this post was zero interest in redeyesblackpanda's offer for free hosting. I'm well aware of the things you said and that was the idea behind what he is offering. General idea is that those that have "unlimited everything" hosting plans, share the resources with those that need them.

I was going to post instructions in another post and link it from here, but I got interrupted... I didn't expect a bunch of replies so fast. Anyhow I did it now - Domain name, hosting and website.


Oh... Yeah, I see your point...

@SusanTheCat: OK, but I bet you also made a website or two, just for the fun of it.

@ScottySeng: Well I consider any of those a website, but in my post I'm talking about the last one - own domain and hosting.

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Free hosting or website for your VN

If you can get a Domain name, talk to redeyesblackpanda. He will provide free hosting.

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I'm going to get off my soap-box now, and let you get back to your day.

Academy Daze- Demo pending
Knights of Chaos: Ghost- Coding underway
DevBlog: http://www.renaigames.net
Troubleshooter Tales: Childhood's End (story) http://www.knightschaos.com

I think this was the most offensive part of your rant. Don't you think you're being harsh here? In the end, what does this really matter to you? If you don't want to play someone's game because they didn't do things the way you wanted them to, then you're not going to play it. It doesn't go any farther than that. You aren't being harmed in any way, so I really don't get what this is all about.

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http://a-flower-remains.tumblr.com/

I'm sorry, I wasn't tying to offend anyone.

The reason why I wrote this post, is because redeyesblackpanda offered free website hosting for VN related sites with your own domain or hosting and a free subdomain (viewtopic.php?f=13&t=14350). There hasn't been any requests for his offer in almost a month, so I figured people either don't know why they would need hosting at all (that's why I wrote this - viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14720) or they are not aware of the importance of having your *own* site - which is the reason for this post.

So, is there a good reason why you are still on Tumblr?

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Free hosting or website for your VN

I see no problem in advertising free hosting, but people have the right to choose if they have a site or not.
It's kind of redeyespanda to offer free hosting, but hosting is the easy part. Designing the site is the hard part (Unless you use a wordpress blog with a theme).

In the eyes of a normal person without any web design experience, you have to consider these points:

1. The ease of social networks (Facebook, Tumblr, Wordpress (Non hosted), etc.) to advertise VNs and otherwise. Plus there are cases where the social network page may generate more hits than the actual website page it's self.
2. They will google "Free Website" and probably come accross something like wix.com, webz.com, etc. to design the website using their easy to use GUI based editors. In hosting a website, there is no easy editor, just notepad or otherwise. Even using free website templates, they have to at least be able to know how to edit the template (Need basic knowledge of HTML).
3. Designing a website is time consuming. I've spent weekends just designing a website (I'm not a pro though, I'm just taking some college courses on web design as a hobby).
4. The user's preferences. I bet most people here just want a place to show off their VN. For that, the user interface of Tumblr, Facebook, etc. will suffice for them. If they decide they don't need a full blown website with a host, then that's just what they decide.
5. Cost. I know a domain name doesn't cost much, but for others it may be a lot.
6. The importance of actually having a site. Remember, vistors of websites could care less what it is actually hosted on (Whether it's a Wordpress, Tumblr, self operated domain, etc.). They just care that the website works correctly and that they can access the content they came for (new, downloads, etc.)

In the eyes of a normal consumer, why I think redeyesblackpanda isn't getting responses:
1. Hosting is free, but once again, designing the website is not easy. (Unless it's a Wordpress build)
2. It's been one month and the default index page for redeyesblackpanda's domains (vnovel.com and hellpanda.com) are still the default for the hosting service. To a normal person, right now it looks dead, or will be dead. Even replacing it with a home page with nothing but simple "Website under construction" in black/white text would at least tell me the website is alive.
3. In one forum topic, I remember reading redeyesblackpanda saying he wished that he could design websites. As a consumer, that tells me he's not to knowledgable about website design. So if I have a problem with my website because the links are broken due to file structure or otherwise, he will not know how repair the links within the HTML files that he's given. I also read that you, leon, are willing to help him (That's kind of you by the way). Let's face it though, life is unpredictable. There may be a time where you cannot help redeyeblackpanda and he will not be able to troubleshoot the problem alone (Assuming he doesn't learn web design).
4. FTP access. I'm 100% sure that FTP access will not be granted simply because of the power having one can do. In order to have something hosted, people will have to send all website related documents to redeyesblackpanda to have them updated. As a designer, I have to say that having a FTP account is a must so I can demo the website and make sure the page is acting according to my expecations on the server side.

@Redeyesblackpanda
I hope I didn't offend you when I said that I assumed that do not have web designing skills. It is only my assumption based on the posts I have read so far, and if I have offended you in anyway, I sincerly apologize.
However, I do believe you will be able to learn the skills of web design with time.

All in all, it's up to the people to decide what they want to do.

We also need to think about commitment/dedication. If you make even some kind of sites, blog, or even a mere facebook account as a game developer, people will expect you to update your pages from time to time. Fail to do so will lead people to think you as (1) lazy (2) not active anymore as a game developer and/or abandon the project.

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"Double the princesses, quadruple the fun!" - Haken Browning (SRW-OG Endless Frontier)

DeviantArt Account
MoeToMecha Blog (under construction)
Lolicondria Blog (under construction) <- NSFW

Not at all.
As for FTP access, I can limit control to certain folders (which'll protect my site too )
I am limited to 50 accounts though, but we're nowhere near that at the moment.
(I must say that I'd be useless without Leon's help. Leon actually has FTP access to the site too, as do a couple other people. I wouldn't be the one handling that stuff, since, as you know from what you've read, I'm not experienced with that stuff. )
As for what we have, I've actually got a forum and blog at HellPanda right now (although we're still working on building a site and customizing the forum and blog )

I believe we're looking into making the website building a little simpler at the moment, so hopefully we'll be able to fix that last problem.

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Not really checking the forums any more due to time constraints, so if you want to contact me, PM. I'll get a notification and log in.
Also, I've been hit and run posting, which means I don't see many replies. If you want to respond to something I've said, also feel free to PM me.

If you can get the right people to follow you or if someone with a lot of followers gives you a "signal boost," tumblr can be a very effective platform for getting your game out. All it takes is for someone to reblog your post and then your game can easily be seen by many more people than you could have imagined.
Granted, if you have a website equipped with the proper social networking/media widgets that makes sharing your updates easy for people, this too can help you.

I think in general, YMMV for each of these platforms. It just depends on the kind of audience you have and your personal style/preferences. (For example, Christine Love's website/blog is actually hosted on tumblr)

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tumblr | twitter | I believe in you!

Right. Website. I'll get right on that. No excuses here. >_>

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"Why would you even need so many characters?!!"
~Me. Just now. At you.
Gliese Productions
If anybody is interested in writing blog posts for Gliese, drop me a line. Website needs more traffic/content.
Bloggers will get free copies of Gliese VNs once we go commercial.

I didn't mind his rant. I think he could have used better wording, but I don't think his intention was to hurt anyone or be offensive.

He does have some valid points though. If you are going to be serious as a developer then you really do need a website. More and more businesses are finding that they HAVE to go out on the web because that is the new platform for business and advertising. So if you don't have a website, tumblr, or facebook page dedicated to your development team then you really won't be represented in the global market on whatever product you are selling.

Of course, if you are just doing VNs for fun, then there really isn't any need for a big, fancy website.

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