Lemma Soft Forums

I'd love to get your opinion on this!

If you're playing a harem game (which I assume means a romance game where you can date several different characters), would you want a game where you could romance everybody in a single play through?

I'm asking because, for the most part, I don't really like going back and replaying through a game over and over to see how the different romances unfold. The last time I did this was with Dragon Age, and I enjoyed it but I think it was because it seemed extremely well written, there was a lot of explore, and the combat system was fun.

I think I recall being able to romance most of the different options and go all the way with the romances, aside from one or two big decisions at the very end.

This is how I like my games set up, but I'm wondering if that's just me. One long playthrough, and if the game is fun enough, I'll explore the other branches, but otherwise, I'd prefer not to.

Do other people prefer one playthrough with lots of relationships, or do they like replaying the game again and again to try and check out the other relationships?

_________________

Well, as long as there's a skip button (as it's in the case with most VNs), I'm game for a replay! So I'd say it's bad in a RPG, because you can't skip the fights, and I'd like to be able to romance every character like in Origins and have a save before picking the one I want to be with; an in a VN, where branching actually gives you the opportunity to discover more of the story, and you can usually skip the parts you've seen, I'd say it's a lovely thing.

^ This.

Avalon Code (a RPG, I guess) is pretty free when it comes to romance. After finishing the main story it's an endless game (as there's still a lot to explore) and you can switch your partners freely as long as you meet the conditions.
And that is the best way. I wouldn't want to replay a game like that for another romance, simply because leveling takes time and the main story stays the same. (I'm thinking about replaying it though, in boy mode this time. Romancing the female characters, you know.)

But if it was a Visual Novel, a story game, it would be... wrong.
You can "try people out" in the game, but you have one ending. It would be so... silly, if you would jump from one relationship to the next.
("I'm gonna catc... date you all! :<")
And since VNs have, as mentioned, skip buttons (especially the smart ones that look at the persistent data so that you can skip in peace without worrying that you might miss something), I prefer starting again.
(Then again, I like things that are repeating, so maybe you shouldn't mind me. /shot)

It all depends on the game, I guess.
There are probably some VNs that can contain all romances in one playthrough, and some RPGs that are better of with one romance only.

- R.

_________________

Newest Update: "Interface preview + WIPs" (13. 9. 2012)

In a VN no, except if your VN is about Don Juan.

In a Dating Sim yes.

It depends on what you have in mind.

With some games the paths are extremely different plotwise and it would be ridiculous to try and follow two at the same time. With some games there's an overall plot that is almost entirely unchanged by who you're dating, so you could easily spend time with everyone without the story being derailed.

Some games work off the idea that you *are* spending time with multiple people, and your various love interests may get jealous of each other, backstab each other, fight with you and demand that you stop seeing the other one, team up with rivals in order to get your attention away from the OTHER rivals, etc.

Lucky Rabbit Reflex had it so that if you had maxed out two different character's love meters by the end you got a special scene to choose between them (but sadly no threesome options that I know of )

In general I don't like the idea of being able to date everyone in the same playthrough unless you're actually going to handle the complications of either poly or serial dumping, but there's no problem with being able to get multiple characters 'warmed up' before picking whose romance you're going to commit to (and therefore possibly being able to save at that point and go back to it to make the other choice.)

_________________
Hanako Games

I'd prefer it in different playthroughs, even though I rarely go back for more than 2. Having all romances in one playthrough does eliminate the need for a replay, but it may also be... Messy. That is to say, I feel the plot might end up garbled, or there won't be enough depth and exposure for one person because you'll be dating everyone at one go.

If you do make a game where there's all the romances in one playthrough, I'd at least like the ability to be able to reject a person, since there's usually one person I dislike in every game. (God save me from the weak willed, malleable, I'll-do-anything-you-want-me-to-do, I-don't-actually-have-an-opinion characters orz) In the end, it depends heavily on what your story is. If it has vastly different stories for the characters, I'd like to enjoy one story at a go, to fully enjoy it. Instead of say, putting all the backstories in one blender and hitting PUREE. On the other hand, if you have a master story in which they all fall into place and mesh well, then go for it.

_________________
Deviantart | Sketchy Tumblr |

Generally I tend to stay away from reverse/harems unless they were optional, but I will make exceptions if it seems interesting to me. For VNs, it would be best to make it 1 on 1 instead of a group. As mentioned a few times above, you can always skip scenes when it comes to the ones you've already seen. Plus it adds replay value to your game and you won't get distracted between many girls if you only focus on one at a time (This problem is why I'm not a fan of harems).

However, one word of advice (Though I don't think you'll do this, I'm just throwing it out there for others to see). When making a harem, never EVER make the protagonist dead set on who he wants right at the start of the game or story. I find it very annoying when writers do that and still force the protagonist in a harem situation, because we all know that everyone other than the protagonist's choice will never end up with them anyway.

_________________
Visit my Colors! 3D Gallery for all my artwork. It is best viewed on a Nintendo 3DS, as some of my works are in 3D.

I can just think of it now... a VN where you play as Casanova. In that game, totally.

_________________

Technical Designer/Programmer
Game Design Portfolio - Project updates on my Twitter - Check out my 2D Platformer: Lunaris
Experienced in: C/C++, Python, Unreal, Unity, and Flash
_________________
"Space can be very lonely. The greatest adventure is having someone share it with you."

I agree with everything that's been said so far. As long as there's a skip button, I'd go for the one romance at a time approach. Maybe it's just me but I think it feels a lot more realistic and genuine. I'm not really sure how you design your games but in later choice menus, I like to force players to make a decision about who they'd like to spend time with, i.e. you can spend time with person A or person B, but not both. In that way it kind of directs the player into one path. I feel like writing a game with only one possible romance at the end might be slightly easier to do as well since you can more or less focus on and go more in-depth into individual characters' stories and paths.

I also tend to save before what I suspect are major decision points in a game so I can go back and try different paths.

This probably depends a lot on the actual premise of the game though. In the end, I think both approaches work. You should just go for the approach that you're most comfortable writing.

If I can achieve all the romancable characters in one playthrough, either something was programmed incorrectly, or Im playing School Days and Im on my way to a NICE BOAT ending.

_________________

MESI Games/Personal Twitter/Death Rule: lost code Demo

9 people go for one-on-one romances. Let me make it 10. XD

Having the option of obtaining all the love interests in one go makes me feel like I'm working the cash register at some fast food joint: "Thank you for your patronage. Next!"

I'd rather see a hilarious threesome.

_________________
otome game: Tonight development blog UNDER CONSTRUCTION l WIP thread

99% of the time, I am fine with romancing folks one at a time. But in the case of a dating sim, especially in the case of TokiMemo Girl's Side, such an option would be a welcome relief.

Appreciating all the feedback here!

Shows you how much I know about VNs...I didn't even KNOW there was a SKIP option.

Where were all of you people when I played my first few commercial otomes?!?!

I was previously thinking of doing an "epic" VN where you could romance all the different characters up to the very end (and you'd be forced to make a decision at point Z), but it sounds like the majority of you feel there would be a compromise on:

1) the cohesiveness of the plot
and 2) the feeling of it being a relationship game and not an assembly line.

There seems to be a couple of you who also wouldn't mind the option of dating everyone in one run-through, as long as it's an option, and you aren't forced. (And I would assume, the story actually still makes sense.)

I'll have a lot to consider as I continue working on my game.

_________________

Well, if any of you esteemed people would like to take a crack at criticizing this type of set up for plot structure, I'd really appreciate it:

First of all, here is the premise I'm working on: college senior comes out of the closet and begins his adventures in the gay dating scene. There are 4 different romance options. And I figure this plot structure would be applicable to any type of relationship game, really, so please read even if you aren't into B/B games!

Every week you could pick the ability to see two different people.

To get the "best ending" for any of them, you would have to stick with choosing to advance the plot with that person every single weekend for the entire semester. (Approx. 10 weekends each.) So let's say, for simplicity's sake, you basically had, for each romance option: plot point 1, plot point 2, plot point 3...all the way up to plot point 10 (ending.) Each guy you can date has an individual, separate plot line.

(If you actually got all the way through to plot point 10 for 2 guys, you'd have to choose between them in a final romantic dilemma scene.)

If you just picked different guys all through out, you'd never get to plot point 10. Basically the story would be left hanging at whatever plot point. So for example, for guy B, if you only dated him 5 times, because you were busy with guy A and guy C, you'd be stuck at plot point B-5 for the end of the game.

Let's say, for the sake of example (this isn't in my story), that guy B's story was that he was pressured to be a pre-med but what he really wants to do is become a writer. Because you dated several of the guys and didn't stick with any of them, for the end of the game, you only get to B's plot point 5, where you end up reading one of his manuscripts and finding out he's actually very good.

But lo and behold, it's the end of the game. You can't progress any further. The semester ends, and everyone goes their separate ways. In the epilogue, you never hear from guy B again. (And similar results for the other guys, if you only saw them occasionally.)

How does this sound to you guys? Is this a structure people have done before? What are the pitfalls I'm not seeing yet?

_________________

As I said in a different thread, I HATE games where the way to get someone's ending is "Just choose them every time there's a choice!" because in that case what is the point of having choices at all? They aren't meaningful, I may as well have just been reading a plain story about dating the one guy.

There is not enough bold in the world for my level of hate there. This is, in my opinion, terrible game design.

If making any choice other than 'sameguy' dooms you to failure, then the only real choice you're making is, at the very beginning of the game, which guy to pursue. The rest of the choice are a waste of time or a trap for players who mistakenly think you've done something more creative.

(That said, there are many games that do this. But it sucks. It's a waste of the medium.)

_________________
Hanako Games