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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:44 am 
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WatchJessieGo wrote:
Man, having depression, Panic Disorder, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder sucks.

*high fives* Looks like you have the same quad diagnosis as they gave me! (mine's a little bit trichotillomania, though) I find the reason why I get particularly bad at night is because my mind is unoccupied trying to get to sleep so it decides to be a jerk and find things to obsess over. Naturally, I can't get to sleep so I have anxiety about being unable to sleep, which causes it to get worse. It was awful because I was so worked up with anxiety that even if I did succeed at getting to sleep, I'd wake up in the middle of the night with nightmares that I missed my alarm. I like to refer to it as Anxiety Snowball Syndrome (ha! Never realized what that spelled out till I wrote it down. Whoops). I used to read for hours upon hours before falling asleep as a distraction as it was better than letting those pesky nighttime thoughts come. This was problematic, of course, as I needed the light on to read, which would make falling asleep difficult. Now I put audiobooks on my ipod at night and listen to them as a nightly routine. I don't allow myself to get up for any reason, no matter how bad my insomnia gets and it seems to have worked reasonably well. I've trained my mind that audiobook time in bed is sleepy time in an almost Pavlovian response.

Of course, I have no idea if it'll work for you, but I thought I'd share what works for me since I know how awful it can be to go through what you are right now. I can't really say anything about the meds situation. I personally use relaxation techniques, but sometimes I know that doesn't cut it, especially when the panic attack has already started :\ I guess it all depends on how long this lasts. I don't think taking it often for a little bit until your situation improves will do you much harm. Hang in there, okay? :(

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:29 am 
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I know my life is sad when I revolve my sleeping habits around ebay auctions... :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:39 am 
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Auro-Cyanide wrote:
If a girl is physically strong, that's cool, but the notion that that is the only way to be strong is a bunch of patriarchal nonsense.

I think it's a little more complex than 'patriarchal nonsense' and laying this one on men alone is a little naive. Men provide the main drive enforcing the 'man must be strong' stereotype on other men, but it is women who tend to be the ones pushing the 'woman must be passive' on women.

Growing up with a 'non-standard' view of masculinity, I noticed a scary fact. As a child, we discover the 'tom-boy' archetype for little girls who act like boys, which is not inherently negative. It may be frowned on a little, but society sighs and shrugs and suggests that she will grow out of it. For little boys who act like girls, there is only one archetype; he's 'gay' or 'wussy' otherwise plain wrong. It's a strongly negative judgement. I've never heard a 5-year old girl described as a 'dyke' or any other slur on her sexuality for liking cars or planes, but it seems almost normal to throw slurs like 'faggot' at boys who like pink.

By mid-teens, both genders are being pressured to conform; I still think it's usually women telling girls to be more feminine and men telling boys to be more masculine, even if I can't provide anything more than anecdotal evidence; but I can't help seeing that the pressure on boys starts so much earlier.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:01 am 
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AnthonyHJ wrote:
Auro-Cyanide wrote:
If a girl is physically strong, that's cool, but the notion that that is the only way to be strong is a bunch of patriarchal nonsense.

I think it's a little more complex than 'patriarchal nonsense' and laying this one on men alone is a little naive. Men provide the main drive enforcing the 'man must be strong' stereotype on other men, but it is women who tend to be the ones pushing the 'woman must be passive' on women.

Growing up with a 'non-standard' view of masculinity, I noticed a scary fact. As a child, we discover the 'tom-boy' archetype for little girls who act like boys, which is not inherently negative. It may be frowned on a little, but society sighs and shrugs and suggests that she will grow out of it. For little boys who act like girls, there is only one archetype; he's 'gay' or 'wussy' otherwise plain wrong. It's a strongly negative judgement. I've never heard a 5-year old girl described as a 'dyke' or any other slur on her sexuality for liking cars or planes, but it seems almost normal to throw slurs like 'faggot' at boys who like pink.

By mid-teens, both genders are being pressured to conform; I still think it's usually women telling girls to be more feminine and men telling boys to be more masculine, even if I can't provide anything more than anecdotal evidence; but I can't help seeing that the pressure on boys starts so much earlier.


Patriarchal =/= Men. The two are separate. The social restrictions created by patriarchy affect everyone. And what you mentioned is a very distinctive trait of viewing women as less. If a girl acts like a boy it is generally okay. A boy acting like a girl is bad, which implies that there is something less about him liking feminine things. It's an insult to insinuate that a man is like a woman. Crying like a girl is a bad thing. Growing a pair or being a man are good things. Our society has dangerous views on gender and sexuality and they aren't helping anyone. It will be better if we break down traditional preceptions and start looking outside the box, which is what I was referring to when I was speaking of different types of strengths. It's healthy to recognise the diversity of people in our world instead of insisting everyone should fit under a title neatly.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:23 am 
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Tetiel wrote:
*high fives* Looks like you have the same quad diagnosis as they gave me! (mine's a little bit trichotillomania, though)

Aw man, I have that and it sucks. Fortunately I'm not as bad as I was when I was a kid...

It's interesting to hear that there are other people here who have anxiety attacks at night. My boyfriend had major insomnia for awhile and now he has that same reaction even at the prospect of going to bed early. I feel really bad for him and don't know how to help... it's extremely frustrating because people who are lucky enough not to have experienced what he's going through (including his family) believe that he's just a slacker who won't get a job. :x

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:36 pm 
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Auro-Cyanide wrote:
There is this idea that because girls, on average, are physically weaker than a boys in general, they are therefore weak. The only way for a girl to be strong is to be able to beat up guys? That is a terrible idea and whittles done the worth of a human into physical violence. Being kind, being nurturing, being able to stand up for your ideals, being able to say no to people, being able to hold your head up high, these are all strengths and are worth just as much if not more as physical strength.

That's what I thought too. And I'm somewhat ashamed of myself for willing to change my heroine into a violent tsundere just to appeal to the people who would like that... I really need to be more confident in what I'm doing and stop changing things to make other people happy;; Thank you for the advice ;w;

Argeus_the_Paladin wrote:
I think a sufficiently good litmus test for a "strong" heroine is as such:

- Is her personality passive, indecisive or otherwise, that would allow the guy to walk all over her?
- Does she have an opinion of her own and willing to defend it (not to the death, but hey, you get the idea).
- Most importantly, is she her own character? As in, someone with her own thought process, confidence, security and who is still a person when detached from her potential love interests?

The third point is, ironically enough, where most tsundere character fails the test. Rejecting or appear to be trying to reject a guy with sheer violence in a manner contradictory to what she truly feels is a textbook example of good old insecurity and avoidance.

Hope this helps.


This does help a lot! I'd like to think the heroine I've created passes the test.
I actually gave this heroine a backstory, which my first heroine didn't have. So yes, she is her own person, with her own story, motivation, desires and thoughts. I feel so much better about her now. ;A;

Ugh, I feel like sharing my problems so I'm going to go into a mini rant here.

For those of you who are artists: have you ever had someone tell you that they like your old crappier art better than your new, vastly improved, more anatomically correct and has-more-effort put into it art and felt totally deflated? That just happened to me yesterday and I'm really upset about it. :(
Someone emailed me a paragraph long reason why they won't play my game. The gist of what they said [not direct quotes]: 'I don't think I will play your new game because I liked the art in the 1st game better' and 'The characters are fat now, they were better before' and 'The game looks too light, AS ALWAYS of you'.
Like, really? You like the art of my old game better, when I didn't know anything about anatomy, every line was pencil thin, and there were colors coming out of the lineart? You like that better over my recent art that's 10x better and you're not going to play my game because my art has improved? And all you care about is the art, too, apparently, if that alone is going to stop you from playing. And my games/art are supposed to be light. If you want to go play games with yandere characters, be my guest, but I'm not making that type of thing.
She is entitled to her opinion, yes, but I wanted to smash my computer and destroy everything I've done so far. I don't know why that comment bothers me so much, but it really, really does. It's like all this improvement has been for nothing. It makes me feel like I should stop putting so much effort into my drawings because people like it better when it looks like crap. I just don't get it. Maybe I'm so upset because I was already at a breaking point and this comment was the straw that broke the camel's back, as they say. I think I just need to take a break xD /end rant

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:31 pm 
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teacup wrote:
For those of you who are artists: have you ever had someone tell you that they like your old crappier art better than your new, vastly improved, more anatomically correct and has-more-effort put into it art and felt totally deflated? That just happened to me yesterday and I'm really upset about it. :(
Someone emailed me a paragraph long reason why they won't play my game. The gist of what they said [not direct quotes]: 'I don't think I will play your new game because I liked the art in the 1st game better' and 'The characters are fat now, they were better before' and 'The game looks too light, AS ALWAYS of you'.
Like, really? You like the art of my old game better, when I didn't know anything about anatomy, every line was pencil thin, and there were colors coming out of the lineart? You like that better over my recent art that's 10x better and you're not going to play my game because my art has improved? And all you care about is the art, too, apparently, if that alone is going to stop you from playing. And my games/art are supposed to be light. If you want to go play games with yandere characters, be my guest, but I'm not making that type of thing.
She is entitled to her opinion, yes, but I wanted to smash my computer and destroy everything I've done so far. I don't know why that comment bothers me so much, but it really, really does. It's like all this improvement has been for nothing. It makes me feel like I should stop putting so much effort into my drawings because people like it better when it looks like crap. I just don't get it. Maybe I'm so upset because I was already at a breaking point and this comment was the straw that broke the camel's back, as they say. I think I just need to take a break xD /end rant

Well, still better to get some comment about your work than no comment at all, since silence is really the worst thing you can give an artist or anyone who makes things.

And one thing I hate are the people who turn away people's critiques as either "you're no better than me so what are you talking about" or "It's just a style difference" and it makes me want to strangle the person. At least you're getting critique from someone. Someone like me has to fight tooth and nail just to even get someone to look at my work, let alone comment on it. Not everything is going to be "Oh it's excellent your work is the the epitone of beauty and perfection" you're going to get some people who want to see you improve. But if all you want is praise, don't bother posting on the internet and just stick to showing stuff to your IRL friends. They'll always be impressed.

Phew! I feel better now o_o

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Hijiri wrote:
Well, still better to get some comment about your work than no comment at all, since silence is really the worst thing you can give an artist or anyone who makes things.


Critiques are okay, but when someone just flat out tells you 'Your characters are fat and you suck now, go back to how you used to draw or I'm not playing your game' it's kind of hard to see that as helpful. The way she said it was just... ouch. I haven't replied yet but I literally want to be like 'That's it. I'm done. Never drawing again ever. Nope. Happy now?' (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

I wish I had IRL friends who would be impressed by me. Unfortunately all my IRL friends are better artists than me and can draw beautiful things without references or anything like that. They're all like.. professionals, and I'm the amateur trying to keep up. They usually have nothing good to say about my newbish anime art. :|

Man, this whole post is so bitter. xD

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:03 pm 
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@teacup
You may think your art has improved, but it could be that they preferred the old style.
Looking at the OPs for both topics, it seems that the first had bolder, more stylised eyes. This is something that I prefer in an art style, but I'm not going to criticise your decision to change it.

If you're getting to a stage where you're not enjoying the project it'll end up showing.
Chill down, look at the differences in the art, ask them what they preferred about the old style over the new style. Not everyone has the same tastes.
Were something like Order of the Stick to take on a more anatomically correct drawing style, I may be put off. I personally enjoy the anime style of art for the emphasis on facial features, which enables things not possible in photorealistic graphics, like eyes moving around the face or OTT facial expressions.

On the topic of the story itself, you'll need to balance between something you actually want to create and what other people want, if you want to both want to carry on and increase the appeal. If you focus too much on what other people want it'll just be a slog (difficult to carry on working on it), which you seem to think it is already.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:05 pm 
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teacup wrote:
Hijiri wrote:
Well, still better to get some comment about your work than no comment at all, since silence is really the worst thing you can give an artist or anyone who makes things.


Critiques are okay, but when someone just flat out tells you 'Your characters are fat and you suck now, go back to how you used to draw or I'm not playing your game' it's kind of hard to see that as helpful. The way she said it was just... ouch. I haven't replied yet but I literally want to be like 'That's it. I'm done. Never drawing again ever. Nope. Happy now?' (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

I wish I had IRL friends who would be impressed by me. Unfortunately all my IRL friends are better artists than me and can draw beautiful things without references or anything like that. They're all like.. professionals, and I'm the amateur trying to keep up. They usually have nothing good to say about my newbish anime art. :|

Man, this whole post is so bitter. xD


That's why we learn to ignore those posts since those people are shallow who could care less about anatomy and only want bone-thin noodle people c:

It also depends on where you're from. WHere I live, even some of my crappy doodles tend to fare better than a lot of the stuff my friends make, however I'm pretty low-tier by artistic standards. Of course, your mileage may vary.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:10 pm 
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Ryouko wrote:
Sometimes I really ask myself what's wrong with this life.

I got over family problems, over large conflicts with "friends", over a bipolar disorder and over self-hate.
I'm fine with the person I am now. Not as emotional and finally reasonable.

So, I fell in love. That's... fine.
I can live with that and I can suppress it till I forget it.
It's a different story when he feels the same.

And it's all so silly.
I live ~4 hour away from him, and when I move away next year after school it'll be a little more.
He is currently going to university and thus not moving away.
=> Rather hopeless situation

We don't see each other often, obviously.
If it's about character - well, he's quite perfect there. Everything I ever searched in a man.

I'm not really sure if I hope for this to stop as it's just irrational or if I want it to continue as it just feels right.
I'm no even making sense anymore.

- R.

Thank you!! I hope everything turns good to you guys too!
I can tell what Tetiel says is true. I talk with him via AIM, sadly webcam conection breaks quickly XD
Although I really wish It could be with him orz, I cant complain much


teacup wrote:
Auro-Cyanide wrote:
There is this idea that because girls, on average, are physically weaker than a boys in general, they are therefore weak. The only way for a girl to be strong is to be able to beat up guys? That is a terrible idea and whittles done the worth of a human into physical violence. Being kind, being nurturing, being able to stand up for your ideals, being able to say no to people, being able to hold your head up high, these are all strengths and are worth just as much if not more as physical strength.

That's what I thought too. And I'm somewhat ashamed of myself for willing to change my heroine into a violent tsundere just to appeal to the people who would like that... I really need to be more confident in what I'm doing and stop changing things to make other people happy;; Thank you for the advice ;w;

Argeus_the_Paladin wrote:
I think a sufficiently good litmus test for a "strong" heroine is as such:

- Is her personality passive, indecisive or otherwise, that would allow the guy to walk all over her?
- Does she have an opinion of her own and willing to defend it (not to the death, but hey, you get the idea).
- Most importantly, is she her own character? As in, someone with her own thought process, confidence, security and who is still a person when detached from her potential love interests?

The third point is, ironically enough, where most tsundere character fails the test. Rejecting or appear to be trying to reject a guy with sheer violence in a manner contradictory to what she truly feels is a textbook example of good old insecurity and avoidance.

Hope this helps.


This does help a lot! I'd like to think the heroine I've created passes the test.
I actually gave this heroine a backstory, which my first heroine didn't have. So yes, she is her own person, with her own story, motivation, desires and thoughts. I feel so much better about her now. ;A;

Ugh, I feel like sharing my problems so I'm going to go into a mini rant here.

For those of you who are artists: have you ever had someone tell you that they like your old crappier art better than your new, vastly improved, more anatomically correct and has-more-effort put into it art and felt totally deflated? That just happened to me yesterday and I'm really upset about it. :(
Someone emailed me a paragraph long reason why they won't play my game. The gist of what they said [not direct quotes]: 'I don't think I will play your new game because I liked the art in the 1st game better' and 'The characters are fat now, they were better before' and 'The game looks too light, AS ALWAYS of you'.
Like, really? You like the art of my old game better, when I didn't know anything about anatomy, every line was pencil thin, and there were colors coming out of the lineart? You like that better over my recent art that's 10x better and you're not going to play my game because my art has improved? And all you care about is the art, too, apparently, if that alone is going to stop you from playing. And my games/art are supposed to be light. If you want to go play games with yandere characters, be my guest, but I'm not making that type of thing.
She is entitled to her opinion, yes, but I wanted to smash my computer and destroy everything I've done so far. I don't know why that comment bothers me so much, but it really, really does. It's like all this improvement has been for nothing. It makes me feel like I should stop putting so much effort into my drawings because people like it better when it looks like crap. I just don't get it. Maybe I'm so upset because I was already at a breaking point and this comment was the straw that broke the camel's back, as they say. I think I just need to take a break xD /end rant


Hmm It feels more like an opinion than a criticism.
What it matters here is what you like and not exactly what others like, that would mold your own style.

Keep practicing and seeking to be a better artist. Maybe the anger issue is because you are not used to criticism or sort.
I remember reading on your first Planets thread that you didn't wanted criticism, but I felt that maybe some of them would improve your games.
Anyway I really admire your constancy, I mean not everyone finish a game that big.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:16 pm 
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Tetiel wrote:
WatchJessieGo wrote:
Man, having depression, Panic Disorder, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder sucks.

*high fives* Looks like you have the same quad diagnosis as they gave me! (mine's a little bit trichotillomania, though) I find the reason why I get particularly bad at night is because my mind is unoccupied trying to get to sleep so it decides to be a jerk and find things to obsess over. Naturally, I can't get to sleep so I have anxiety about being unable to sleep, which causes it to get worse. It was awful because I was so worked up with anxiety that even if I did succeed at getting to sleep, I'd wake up in the middle of the night with nightmares that I missed my alarm. I like to refer to it as Anxiety Snowball Syndrome (ha! Never realized what that spelled out till I wrote it down. Whoops). I used to read for hours upon hours before falling asleep as a distraction as it was better than letting those pesky nighttime thoughts come. This was problematic, of course, as I needed the light on to read, which would make falling asleep difficult. Now I put audiobooks on my ipod at night and listen to them as a nightly routine. I don't allow myself to get up for any reason, no matter how bad my insomnia gets and it seems to have worked reasonably well. I've trained my mind that audiobook time in bed is sleepy time in an almost Pavlovian response.

Of course, I have no idea if it'll work for you, but I thought I'd share what works for me since I know how awful it can be to go through what you are right now. I can't really say anything about the meds situation. I personally use relaxation techniques, but sometimes I know that doesn't cut it, especially when the panic attack has already started :\ I guess it all depends on how long this lasts. I don't think taking it often for a little bit until your situation improves will do you much harm. Hang in there, okay? :(


I don't remember how I started getting panic attacks at night (I was diagnosed with all this four years ago after a mental breakdown and a hospital stay), but now part of the reason is I just hate seeing a day close to an end. Maybe it has something to do with my fear of growing old and dying - the end of a day means I'm one day closer to dying, or something.
I also have a tendency at night to think about horrible memories and horrible possibilities.
I keep my television on while trying to get to sleep, which serves as a good distraction, but sometimes it's not enough.

It's nice to get to meet someone with the same conditions as me. :3

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:28 pm 
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Barnox wrote:
@teacup
You may think your art has improved, but it could be that they preferred the old style.
Looking at the OPs for both topics, it seems that the first had bolder, more stylised eyes. This is something that I prefer in an art style, but I'm not going to criticise your decision to change it.

If you're getting to a stage where you're not enjoying the project it'll end up showing.


I changed my style because I literally got comments upon comments about how badly it sucked. I got told it looked 'derpy, lazy, rushed, sloppy', etc etc.
And suddenly, when I change it to what most people think to be better, I get told it sucks. Again.
I am really afraid that it seems like the sequel is forced and that I didn't enjoy making it. This is why I have prolonged putting out a demo for so long. I'm so afraid of disappointing people it's literally ruining any enjoyment I once had making visual novels, back when I was making them for myself. :(

Hijiri wrote:
That's why we learn to ignore those posts since those people are shallow who could care less about anatomy and only want bone-thin noodle people c:

It also depends on where you're from. WHere I live, even some of my crappy doodles tend to fare better than a lot of the stuff my friends make, however I'm pretty low-tier by artistic standards. Of course, your mileage may vary.


Lol yeah. If only it was that easy to just ignore. Guess that's just something I haven't learned yet.

clua wrote:
Keep practicing and seeking to be a better artist. Maybe the anger issue is because you are not used to criticism or sort.
I remember reading on your first Planets thread that you didn't wanted criticism, but I felt that maybe some of them would improve your games.


I was horribly immature then and couldn't handle the negative comments. It was weird to me how I got many positive comments when I put out the demo but when I released the full game I got slammed with hate.
I'm okay with critiques now, and I wish I could go back and deal with those critiques differently instead of getting all defensive. I practically told people 'your opinion doesn't matter go away' which I totally regret now. :/

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:47 pm 
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I was horribly immature then and couldn't handle the negative comments. It was weird to me how I got many positive comments when I put out the demo but when I released the full game I got slammed with hate.
I'm okay with critiques now, and I wish I could go back and deal with those critiques differently instead of getting all defensive. I practically told people 'your opinion doesn't matter go away' which I totally regret now. :/


Ah, being able to recognize your immature is a sign of...maturity.

Also, I think a lot of us recognize that most of this forum is still in their volatile adolescent years. I sure don't want to see anything I wrote back when I was 18, much less 20. Or 25... Or last year... :lol:

And those criticisms you're getting...welcome to life as a popular artist! I'm pretty sure for every new book or album practically every well-known artist in the world puts out, there is somebody with their arms crossed in disapproval, the words "I liked the old one better" ready to pounce from their lips. It's as if there is a never ending line of these people waiting...the well never runs dry.

I wouldn't worry about it. If you're putting out the same thing every time, bleagh, how boring that must if you're a creator.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:52 pm 
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Well, still better to get some comment about your work than no comment at all, since silence is really the worst thing you can give an artist or anyone who makes things.

I'd have to agree with this. Given that most of us are doing this for free, our main payment is recognition.

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