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I like working alone. People are crazy, all of them. Still, finishing anything is a tough nut when working alone. Damn tough nut.

Wait, hang on a second. Am I failing comprehension miserably or does something not compute here? Hijiri just essentially mentioned the axiomatic "treat people like how you want to be treated yourself, don't be a prick and don't make excuses about it" which is more or less correct in pretty much 99% of all social interaction. What does that have to do with marginalized minorities, political correctness and all that?

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One Province Minor - 120 class variables and still counting!

Because there is no such thing as too many variables.

That would be great if people were treated equally. Some people in a group can either be picked on or feel like they don't fit in. There can be many reasons for someone being "Marginalised", from being to, to being mentally ill, to just being generally different. It is an issue and not talking about it doesn't solve anything. For example in real life women can have a hard time in high positions because they're not taken seriously and are the butt of jokes. It can make working with people unbearable.

We're not talking about "respect" as a leader here, we're talking about common decency and the excuses some people use to get out of it.

Argeus, Applegate, I guess you didn't read Hijiri saying "discrimination card"? That's what brought it into it. It's a really obnoxious thing to bring up since it implies that minorities are somehow whiny and entitled.

I missed it because he didn't say it.

If someone is picked on, that would be immature and vviolates the advice to treat everyone equally. I feel that if someone does not feel like they belong, it is an issue they need to bring up and work out. If an entire group minus one is comfortable with how the group operates, then there is a chance that the one is simply not in a group they can work with, depending on the degree that the group would have to change to accomodate for the one.

Don't force groups if your style of working clashes.

Respect and trust are big parts of working in a group. However, the levels you need to really work well is something that needs to be earned. People who are strangers to you will have a very general level of trust and respect. You generally trust people to not try and murder you for instance, but you might not trust them to hold your wallet. After interacting with people that level of respect and trust can go up or it can go down. Working with someone you do not respect or trust would be neigh on impossible, but working with people you don't really know well enough to think one way or the other isn't much better. You need to not only respect and trust them as a person, but respect and trust the way they work as well. That is why I think it's really good to know who are are going to team up with. Make sure to talk to them and see how they interact with others. Is this person someone you already trust and respect to a degree? If you don't know, definitely try and find out more so you can make a judgement call. If their belief system is totally the opposite of yours and you are both vocal about it, head butting would probably be likely. It's your choice in who you team up with so spend some time making the right one.

I respected and trusted Camille to a degree before I teamed up with her. This increased after I chatted with her and listening to her respond to my work. That level of trust and respect is what made me sure I would be okay teaming up with her. VN projects enough energy without having to fight your partners ever step of the way. Choose wisely.

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The other 1/2 of Cyanide Tea l My Deviantart Account I My Tumber Account I Break Chance Memento I Ristorante Amore

what

Also you're just appealing the majority. Numbers don't decide who's in the right, even in project groups.

Your right, I did say it. But I don't say it in any specific context (And it would be stupid to assume I'm complaning about minorities whe I myself, by every meaning of the word, am one). And no one has the athority to say who's right and who's wrong since our own opinions are biased. You can think you're right but that dosen't mean you are, and it dosen't mean the other person is wrong or right as well.

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MESI Games/Personal Twitter/Death Rule: lost code Demo

Being some kind of a minority too doesn't mean you over-ride the say of someone else with different life experiences. It is about being respectful about each other in general, but you just can't go about it in as airy fairy a way as Applegate suggests, you need to be aware of everyone's circumstances as the same rules don't always apply to everyone. There is a lot of pressure on employers and the like nowadays to do so. The way in which individuality breaks down is what makes team projects so difficult.

And you shouldn't treat your own life experiences as an excuse to ignore what other people say or do. Life is hard and some of us have just stopped giving a fuck about what happens.
Some individuality has to be lost when working with a team since the ideas being bounced off the people will be viewed in different manners and a majority have to come to an agreement with it. What person A sees should be done won't be the same thing person B sees needs to get done. Dealing with anyone other than yourself is taxing and requires you to be mentally capable of handing anything that might come up, especially in a leading role where everyone on the team looks to you on what to do next. If the leader can't maintain order then they either give the reigns to someone else or try and solve the problem by any means.

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MESI Games/Personal Twitter/Death Rule: lost code Demo

By "any means" has some pretty frightening implications. There should be some basic decency, no matter what position you're in.

If the problem can't be solved by a logical aproach or common decency of that other person's part, then it's perfectly within their right of the leader to use force to fix it. This is something that is done IRL; if someone won't budge one way, there are many other ways to make them. (Be it by firing them, calling security, reducing their salary....the list goes on.)

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MESI Games/Personal Twitter/Death Rule: lost code Demo

Do we really need to rehash this argument now? Really? Can it stop before a mod strolls by? Please?

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Apparently this is common ground here. Oh well...




Could you two please stop with the passive aggressive remarks, please? At least use your experience without pointing fingers.
I should have thought of the most plausible explanation of why a thread jump from 12 replies to 26 so fast since the beginning of BBS boards when I came here, flame.

Anyway, thank you all for your replies. I suspect I'm not the only one reading this so hopefully it will help someone else too. I agree that the keyword here, so to speak, is trust. As for me, I will try to work on something so I can have more to show other than artwork and a few samples.

Thank you.

If I may, I've been running a studio for awhile now. It's been my experience that if the leadership can keep it's head on most of the time, most personality conflicts can be resolved. Assuming for a moment that the people involved have any interest in continuing to work with the group.

Most of the conflicts derive from stubbornness or antagonism on the part of the person/people involved, and usually they either storm off in a cloud of screaming, or are forcibly ejected.

Most of the time, however, group work can be quite rewarding. You just have to be willing to let others interpret and edit your work. If they allow the same, it all works. Everyone gives and takes a bit, and the end result is usually better for it.

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I'm going to get off my soap-box now, and let you get back to your day.

Academy Daze- Demo pending
Knights of Chaos: Ghost- Coding underway
DevBlog: http://www.renaigames.net
Troubleshooter Tales: Childhood's End (story) http://www.knightschaos.com

Well, first of all, find a project that you personally are interested in. Then try to ascertain its current state of development. If it's obvious that some real thought and work has already been put in, that's a good sign. For instance, if you are offering your services as an artist, you want to see a rough first draft or at least a complete plot outline so that you know that down the road, while you're slaving away on a CG, the project leader doesn't suddenly PM you to say, "Actually, we wrote that scene out of the game. Sorry." Take it from someone who writes and does art. Stories change and evolve. It is incredibly risky to do any permanent illustration for any writing until it is finalized, even if YOU are the one writing!

Second, if you've found a solid-looking project, have a look at the person leading it. What have they done in the past? Stalk them. Read their past contributions to this forum and see what kind of person they are. Do you like them? What's their track record? Do they start projects only to abandon them a few months later out of a loss of interest (BIG WARNING SIGN!)? Do they seem confident and willing to lead? Do they seem humble and willing to take criticism? Are they too aggressive or passive? Have a look at their blog or other online presences to see if they are someone you think would work well with you. If you are going to spend valuable hours of your ONE AND ONLY LIFE to work with them on their project, you need to know what you're getting into.

Finally, remember that life will get in the way. Someone will get sick. Someone's hard drive will spontaneously combust. There will be bickering, and someone might get angry and quit the project. Still others will just push the project to the bottom of their priority list or disappear completely. But try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, be patient, and be polite. There have been many times I've felt like writing angry comments, but instead I silently roll my eyes and move on, because at the end of the day, pointing fingers and exchanging accusations accomplishes nothing. It actually makes it less likely that the project will succeed, because everyone will be too busy being angry at each other to collaborate. So try your best to help keep the peace for two reasons: first, the sake of the project, and second, so that everyone is still on friendly terms after the project is finished.

After being part of a few collaborative efforts, I think one of the most important things to look for is a clear deadline. What happens when you don't have a clear deadline? Things get dragged out. People procrastinate. What happens when you DO have a clear deadline? Things get done, or they don't. But at least you know in a timely manner which it's going to be, so you can plan the rest of your life accordingly.

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"It is [the writer's] privilege to help man endure by lifting his heart,
by reminding him of the courage and honor and hope and pride
and compassion and pity and sacrifice which have been the glory of his past."
— William Faulkner