Inclusivity in games

[Fairy Godfeather]

Right now, gaming culture is aimed at white/straight/cis/males and because of this most of the voices being broadcast about gaming are of that demographic.

Gaming culture writ large is off-topic for this forum - our demographics are massively different from those of more traditional games, and there are more appropriate places to discuss problems with the game industry.

I think if the gaming community at large can learn anything beneficial about what it is that this visual novel community here does right then that would be a great thing.

I think these sort of discussions are important, even if not everyone agrees with each other and there's valid points in all sides.

I think this visual novel community does so much right. Renpy provides a platform that allows people to tell stories who might not otherwise be able to write games, or even be interested in creating them. As a free tool it's extremely inclusive.

The community as well is extremely diverse and accepting. I've seen no hate speech during my time here. I see people of all different abilities with different stories they want to tell, coming together, sharing their stories and their artwork with each other, working together, and providing a whole lot of encouragement. It's an extremely supportive environment.

Oops I said I wouldn't use the 'i' word again.

[EroBotan]

I think if the gaming community at large can learn anything beneficial about what it is that this visual novel community here does right then that would be a great thing.

Just ignore the traditional gaming community, they are not game developers, they are not our target market, and if you visit their gaming forums you will find a lot of people with big egos/flame baiter/drama queens ... trying to make them listen to your ideals is impossible.

Better use your precious time to build your own game .. . or play your favorite yuri/yaoi doujins.

[TrickWithAKnife]

That idea made me cringe. Not all of us are interested in derivatives of Japanese dating games.

Many people use VNs because its the ideal way for them to achieve their particular goal. We all have a goal, whether it be to excite, entertain, scare, educate, or surprise.

The larger gaming community are not our enemies. They've been given the wrong impression of what we do. There's no reason why we can't keep them in mind during the development process. Otherwise, aren't we being elitist?

[EroBotan]

That idea made me cringe. Not all of us are interested in derivatives of Japanese dating games.
Many people use VNs because its the ideal way for them to achieve their particular goal. We all have a goal, whether it be to excite, entertain, scare, educate, or surprise.

Eh? I don't get it .. why suddenly we're talking about japanese dating games? I think the current direction in this thread is about spreading inclusiviy? So random lol!

The larger gaming community are not our enemies. They've been given the wrong impression of what we do. There's no reason why we can't keep them in mind during the development process. Otherwise, aren't we being elitist?

When people hate something, they will hate sooo haaaard! I've been trying to change these haters mind tons of times (Keep in mind that I'm not talking specifically about traditional gamers hating VN, I'm talking about haters in general) but it's just a waste of time, they will keep their hate no matter how petty it is. That's why I'm taking 'Haters gonna hate' approach and stop wasting my time on them and their 'hate/flamebait thread'.

And I'm interested in this 'they have wrong impression about us' bit ... . what are you trying to say?

[TrickWithAKnife]

The impression I got was that the traditional gaming community often views VNs as being boring, amateurish or wannabe clones of Japanese games.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.

I think the only way we are going to lure other people to playing VNs is either showing them why they are worth playing (which is probably not going to work so well), raising quality (and supporting each other is one way to do that), making VNs more appealing to people who wouldn't usually play them (more interactivity, not advertising them as a book with pictures and sound), or doing something really unique that they haven't seen before.

There are idiots everywhere. There's a far larger population in the traditional gaming community than here, so it makes more sense that they have more idiots too. Also, people who create games, or enjoy text-heavy games are probably more likely to be patient, and put thought into what they say.

I still view them as supporters who we have failed to engage properly. The problem isn't with them, because we haven't appealed to them properly.
Of course we don't have to. But some in this community do want to.

[EroBotan]

Haha!

I find it ironic though, that you as VN developer (who is also an anime hater) is trying to reach VN haters. I guess it's time for you to taste your own medicine.

[TrickWithAKnife]

My target audience is a different group entirely. I'm aiming at people who are interested in learning survival Japanese in an enjoyable way. I didn't mention this group, as educational VNs are not common yet. When I do advertise, I'll be focussing on Japanese study sites more than gaming sites.

I watch anime a few times a week, so I'm not sure why you think I hate anime.
Anyway, this topic isn't meant to be about me. I'm just one of 16,000 individuals here.

[EroBotan]

When I do advertise, I'll be focussing on Japanese study sites more than gaming sites.

LOL!!! So after all those talk, now you're saying that gaming sites is not your priority? Getting cold feet lol?

Trick-chan, I thinks you should focus on traditional gaming sites first because seeing your own image in their hate speech will definitely broaden your way of thinking and make you more open minded. It's a good thing right?

I watch anime a few times a week, so I'm not sure why you think I hate anime.

Lol Trick-chan in denial mode, so tsundere!!

[TrickWithAKnife]

I'm not that easy to wind up. If you can't stay on topic, feel free to PM instead.

[EroBotan]

I'm not that easy to wind up. If you can't stay on topic, feel free to PM instead.

then why are you becoming a hater if u're not that easy to wind up lol

[Trick & dram are idiots]

[noeinan]

Gaming culture writ large is off-topic for this forum - our demographics are massively different from those of more traditional games, and there are more appropriate places to discuss problems with the game industry.

Sorry if I was getting off topic-- the thread was in General Discussions and about inclusivity in games, so I felt that it was in line with the conversation.

Although it was poorly worded when I wrote it, that's what I meant. The community as a whole pretty much takes care of diversity simply by being being a diverse group itself.

I think if the gaming community at large can learn anything beneficial about what it is that this visual novel community here does right then that would be a great thing.

I think these sort of discussions are important, even if not everyone agrees with each other and there's valid points in all sides.

I think this visual novel community does so much right. Renpy provides a platform that allows people to tell stories who might not otherwise be able to write games, or even be interested in creating them. As a free tool it's extremely inclusive.

The community as well is extremely diverse and accepting. I've seen no hate speech during my time here. I see people of all different abilities with different stories they want to tell, coming together, sharing their stories and their artwork with each other, working together, and providing a whole lot of encouragement. It's an extremely supportive environment.

Oops I said I wouldn't use the 'i' word again.

Basically this. I think the visual novel community is in a better place compared to the gaming community at large.

Just ignore the traditional gaming community, they are not game developers, they are not our target market, and if you visit their gaming forums you will find a lot of people with big egos/flame baiter/drama queens ... trying to make them listen to your ideals is impossible.

But I don't think we can just ignore the gaming community or treat it as a completely unrelated to the visual novel community. There's overlap between the two.

[pwisaguacate]

Shall we let this thread die down if there is nothing more useful to discuss?

[noeinan]

Shall we let this thread die down if there is nothing more useful to discuss?

Amazingly, you can actually let a thread die simply by not posting on it. Nice to know the discussion is upsetting enough to some people that they will specifically request that it end.

[SHiNKiROU]

I got the game Candy Crush Saga. It is very feminine, with candies and cute graphics, and I saw someone complaining a little. If I play it with my grade 3-5 childhood friends in China, I will be beaten up, but in here, I play it with male and female students alike.

I guess attitudes toward playing girly games can affect inclusivity.

[dramspringfeald]

Another thing to conciser would be to make both sides of the game less cliche. Instead of simple Puppets and roles, we have people who are just well people. Instead of "the one" you have the team each member being an actually useful character to the story?

What I'm trying to say (poorly at that) less damsels in distress and more "since you're here." Instead of Psydo-Jesus how about just actually flawed characters? Instead of Supper boobed Sock sluts, characters you wouldn't mind taking home to your folks? You know, People not characters pretending to be people.