PR nightmare: When indie devs are attacked

[pinkmouse]

Oftentimes, said trolls haven't even played your work.

Right. Trolls are only interested in playing you.

[merak]

So my question is, if you are a fledgling or even veteran game developer, how do you avoid these PR disasters?

You minimize your risk by not presenting opinions or making statements about anything other than your own game or interactive story. In software security, the analog is often called reducing the 'attack surface'. However, publicity can also be positive for you, so you might forego opportunities if you limit what subjects you address or do not seek publicity.

[Kylock]

I intensely dislike the "don't feed the trolls" mantra. Not that everyone can or should fight back against the pressures that trolls bring to the table, but "don't feed the trolls" is essentially conceding that we can not and never will be able to make online interactions better and safer for more people, and I completely disagree with that.

I've been on the internet for going on 15 years now and I honestly think it is becoming a better place. People are far more aware, and react far more harshly, to trolls and assholes on the internet than they ever did before. More and more communities are becoming safer places and the problems that can arise from online harassment are being taken more seriously. Again, not that everyone can or should fight back against these problems but I don't think the default response should be "Well, that's the way the world is. Sucks, amirite?"

Earlier in this thread it was presented as an either or option: either get a thick skin (which is intensely condescending and completely ignores the reality of how human emotions works) or don't make games. And everyone seems to be presenting it as such a binary. This completely excludes swathes of people who may have brilliant and wonderful ideas for games from ever being creators, simply because they may not have the emotional fortitude to deal with the assholes of the world.

This isn't an argument for people who can't take criticism. There's a difference between being crushed under thousands of messages of abuse, mockery or worse and someone saying "I dislike the way this character looks." This is an argument for fighting the people that make creator's default stance a defensive, hiding, stealth stance.

It's been mentioned elsewhere but "don't feed the trolls" is very much a victim blaming stance. It places the burden of action and consequence at the feet of the person being trolled, if one does not engage/feed the trolls then one won't get trolled. But we all know this won't work, Zoe Quinn went underground after her harassment and she is still harassed. Anita Sarkessian (however you feel about her) has never engaged her trolls and still the vitriol flies hot and fast.

The video "Ill Doctrine: Why I Will Feed The Trolls If I Damn Well Want To" is a perfect summation of how I feel about this issue. Not everyone is willing or able to fight trolls, and please don't think I'm arguing everyone should, but we're conceding the battle before it's even begun. We let trolls dictate what we say, how we say it, and who we say it to. And I find that completely unacceptable.

[SundownKid]

So my question is, if you are a fledgling or even veteran game developer, how do you avoid these PR disasters?

You minimize your risk by not presenting opinions or making statements about anything other than your own game or interactive story. In software security, the analog is often called reducing the 'attack surface'. However, publicity can also be positive for you, so you might forego opportunities if you limit what subjects you address or do not seek publicity.

That's not necessarily true, I don't feel that reducing your risk by not having strong opinions is beneficial to indies. There are enough people that you can have fans no matter what opinions you have. But publicity means putting yourself out there and making yourself known. People like to know that you are human, you can make mistakes, etc.

If you are already famous and well known, then it's a different story, you have to manage your PR or people will take the opportunity to pile on the hate.

[rainbowcascade]

I think I found some very helpful stuff in facing trolling or negative commentary on this reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comment ... _users_to/

TLDR; generally, the rule is "Don't Feed the Trolls" as in do not fight back with fire and toxicity. Fight back by being positive, helpful and mature. If you blitzkrieg them with kindness, they'll never see it coming and it highlights their negativity, making them look like asses.

Here's a developer's response and feedback with two anti-fans:
http://i.imgur.com/IworVVp.png
http://i.imgur.com/9zw7HMk.png

Here's a feedback article the same developer wrote that is incredibly eye opening: http://www.worthlessbums.com/blog/2013/ ... -feedback/

The only type of troll I'm not sure how to handle are the ones who actively try to dox you and violate your privacy and safety, like what happened with the Call of Duty developer and Zoe Quinn of Depression Quest.

[Shoko]

I intensely dislike the "don't feed the trolls" mantra. Not that everyone can or should fight back against the pressures that trolls bring to the table, but "don't feed the trolls" is essentially conceding that we can not and never will be able to make online interactions better and safer for more people, and I completely disagree with that.

I've been on the internet for going on 15 years now and I honestly think it is becoming a better place. People are far more aware, and react far more harshly, to trolls and assholes on the internet than they ever did before. More and more communities are becoming safer places and the problems that can arise from online harassment are being taken more seriously. Again, not that everyone can or should fight back against these problems but I don't think the default response should be "Well, that's the way the world is. Sucks, amirite?"

Earlier in this thread it was presented as an either or option: either get a thick skin (which is intensely condescending and completely ignores the reality of how human emotions works) or don't make games. And everyone seems to be presenting it as such a binary. This completely excludes swathes of people who may have brilliant and wonderful ideas for games from ever being creators, simply because they may not have the emotional fortitude to deal with the assholes of the world.

This isn't an argument for people who can't take criticism. There's a difference between being crushed under thousands of messages of abuse, mockery or worse and someone saying "I dislike the way this character looks." This is an argument for fighting the people that make creator's default stance a defensive, hiding, stealth stance.

It's been mentioned elsewhere but "don't feed the trolls" is very much a victim blaming stance. It places the burden of action and consequence at the feet of the person being trolled, if one does not engage/feed the trolls then one won't get trolled. But we all know this won't work, Zoe Quinn went underground after her harassment and she is still harassed. Anita Sarkessian (however you feel about her) has never engaged her trolls and still the vitriol flies hot and fast.

The video "Ill Doctrine: Why I Will Feed The Trolls If I Damn Well Want To" is a perfect summation of how I feel about this issue. Not everyone is willing or able to fight trolls, and please don't think I'm arguing everyone should, but we're conceding the battle before it's even begun. We let trolls dictate what we say, how we say it, and who we say it to. And I find that completely unacceptable.

Sorry, but I'm not sure what alternate form of coping you're bringing to the table in place of "don't engage". Forms of civil and lawful communities like Lemmasoft can certainly be maintained to keep out trolls reasonably well, but why do you think the rest of the internet will reform as well? Visceral hatred coming out of people when they're anonymous has certainty been around for a while before the web. The internet's just made it much easier to let out rage on anyone on the planet and unlike real life, trolls have no authority to stop them.

It's not victim blaming, it's called dealing with a part of human nature that will never be suppressed to your liking, especially in such a lawless place like the internet. I don't see how learning to take internet criticism, which is essentially words on a screen, less personally so you don't become an emotional wreck is a bad idea at all.

The guy in the video is exactly the same. He basically says "listen to the victim" and then...what? He doesn't say what you should do next. It's actually quite ridiculous how he assumes I'm "helping the trolls win" by telling the person they shouldn't be idealistic about internet abuse when he doesn't even have an alternative to dealing with it.

You can't stop internet abuse. It's practically guaranteed to happen to anyone who becomes successful online and yes, that's terrible. But let's be realistic. Trolling has about as much chance of being abolished as human conflict itself.