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Although I mostly done writing the script and dialog for the game I'm currently working on, I have an opportunity to add in a bit of extra stuff as I code it into Renpy.

The game I'm working on is called "The Archer's Curse", it's set in a generic medeval village and is bascialy a dating sim with a suspense plotline thrown in for fun. There's no magic or fantastic elements to the game, I aimed for a more realistic (I say that conservatively) and practical setting.

The player will have the option of playing either a male or female character, but at the moment if playing the female character(s) it's basicaly a Yuri game. It should be noted that the game will be a good bit more difficult for a female protagonist (i.e., harder to find a decent job, more likely to have NPCs judge you harshly for not "behaving like a woman should", etc.)

I'm toying with the idea of adding in one or two Male NPC's for the female character to woe, although I haven't decided on it yet.

Currently I have 4 NPCs in the game that the main character can pursue, although a female protagonist can only pursue 3 of the 4. Additionaly, one of the 3 that currently are "available" requires a bit of a stretch in order for the relationship to seem possible. Regardless, a female protagonist will find it more difficult to win the hearts of the NPCs.

I plan/hope on adding 3 more datable NPCs characters in a future release, they already are in the game but will not be datable in the first release of the game. I know for certain that atleast one of them will be off limits to a female protagonist, while the others will still be more difficult for a female protagonist to court.

And incase anyone asks, I will not be adding any Yaoi aspects to the game... it's completely alien to me, so it would be like describing a fifth dimension.

So here's my questions (although I do expect the answers to be biased):

1. Just how signifacant would it be to you to have the possibilty of having a female protagonist pursue a male character.

2. How many male datable NPCs would you expect to see in a game that offers such a possibility. Take into account that it is not the primary focus of the sim.

3. Does it bother you that I already made the Yuri relationships more difficult to pursue, and would it bother you if in exchange for datable males that I made it even more difficult (with the high probability of making one more female NPC off-limits). Infact does the idea of the game in many aspects being more difficult for a female protagonist bother you?

4. If I added male NPCs, but "type" would you like to see... give me details of their personality and appearance, as i have no knowledge of such games currently out.

5. Even if I added Male NPCs I'm unlikely to rewrite alot of the dialog for the female protagonists, so they still wouldn't be "straight", they'd be more like bi-curious lesbians. Would that be a signifcant problem?

6. Any other comments or suggestions you might want to share.

Final Note: If your a guy and you comment on the above please let me know that your male so I can keep the responses in their correct light.

To be honest, it's not that important. If you think about it, the amount of male protagonists in games is much higher than females. So I think any female gamer would be missing out on a LOT of games if they refused to play the role of a male. For example, Final Fantasy 8 features you pursuing a girl, but as a female you can still appreciate that the two love each other and can still want to see that they have a happy end and so on. At the end of the day it's just a game in which you have to progress to see the story, just like if you were to read a book with a male protagonist. I think in terms of a visual novel, if the main character was kept neutral enough, it wouldn't be too hard for a female to understand the motives of the character, regardless of gender.And that's the main thing, appreciating the story rather than the genders involved.



If it wasn't the focus, and more of a "bonus". I wouldn't expect many. Maybe 2-3. As long as they were made different enough from each other that a player could viably see themself identifying with one or the other (or both if they feel like it but whatever), then it would offer a decent enough variety, keeping in mind that it's not the focus.




This is where I'm probably not the best person to ask since I wouldn't pursue the characters with Yuri in mind and would rather play a male pursuing a girl if I had to. At any rate, I don't think it's a problem if you made it difficult, so long as there's good reason behind it. Like say she lives in a country or period of time where a woman is looked down upon and her decisions in life restricted etc. Then I would think it stands to reason that it'd be difficulta dn would prbably feel that if it's ridiculously easy instead, then the purpose of the storyline would be lost. At least one character being easier to get close to (maybe a n open-minded person) would probably be appreciated though so that a player doesn't get bored with seeing 30 "Game Over" screens rather than a real ending. But if the motive of the storyline is governing the difficulty, then it's reasonable that it'd be harder.



This is probably another thing that wouldn't be good to ask me =D
Simply because I don't really acknowledge genders being all that different, and kinda am against people believing there is a Grand Canyon sized split between the two (*is against too much gender biasing*). So I would say that if there can be a character that is a quiet person with a love for books and enjoys walks in the park. I see no reason why a male can't enjoy such things too or be of that same quiet disposition. Therefore I would just say to take into account what I said about offering a range of personalities within the limited possibilities. For example, if there were two male characters that you could get to know, then one being a very quiet and reserved person, more into stuff like reading/drawing etc., perhaps with a mysterious and passive edge, and the other being a straight-forward and open character, into more athletic or adventurous hobbies and quite bold/aggressive, such a thing would offer too very different characters for the player to identify with more. At the end of the day though everyones different so you can't be expected to present the ideal character that the whole world will identify with.




I'm not sure. If it wasn't a big focus in the dialogue that it forced words into even the protagonists dialogue and if the protagonist was kept neutral so that the player could make their own decisions depending on how things unfold, it'd be easier to identify with perhaps. But really, if that's the purpose of the game, then you might just want to forget those who aren't really interested in those kinds of relationships and just focus on thsoe that do. You can't please everyone.



Good luck with your game!

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Forgive the paraphrasing.



While I understand that it's not that important for those who are already fans of the genre, or they wouldn't be fans given the variety of games on the market. What I really want to know is would such a feature inspire you to definately check out the game or not. I understand it isn't a "must have", but what would be the "cool-level" (sorry, couldn't think of a more appropriate term) you would associate with such an "extra".

The second part of your response kind of gave me a chuckle... I've found very few dating-sims where the male characters motives weren't explicitly obvious and quite simplistic. There are exceptions, but generaly that's the rule.



I currently mulling over two NPC already in the game, one's a charismatic Bard (a bit of a playboy, difficulty would be getting him to actualy "settle down" and be faithful)... The other's the local Blacksmith, a hardy practical and old-fashioned kind of person (the Difficulty would be getting him to accept you with out having to give up your individuality). How does that sound for the variety?

Ofcourse I'm a little bit hesitant on writing the scenes, trying to implement the obstacles I have in mind without making the guy come off as such a jerk that the player would want absolutely nothing to do with them... but then again in it's been my observation that many women out there are attracted to jerks...



Yes the setting (and storyline) is deffinately the governing factor here, it's not a misogynistic attitude on my part. I thought about making one character easier, but I'm not leaning that way... even an open-minded character would have to face the unapproving society (and their own family) in which they live with. My "compromise" is with the beleif that adversity breeds strength, thus the female protagonist starts with slightly higers stats.



And neither am I... I don't think that the dialog is too forceful on that topic, she does come off as a bit of an Amazon though... think Zena, and you'll have the general idea on the way she acts and speaks, although her core personality is quite a bit different. The village gossips about the character but it's only rumors until the female protagonist acutaly engages in a relationship with one of the girls, then some interactions become strained or more difficult.

On another note, certainly no relationship is pushed on the protagonist at all... whenever the character meets one of the girls, the intial meeting is very neutral (none of the characters are the "nose-bleed", bumbling idiot, etc. type). After the encounter is over, the dialog goes into the character's thoughts, and the player is given a menu selection on wheter or not they like the character... if the player doesn't acknowledge any interest then that entire storyline is disabled, if they acknowledge some or a lot of interest then that storyline is active (with some interest the character is given a final decison some time later). There story/event-related "penalities" for having more than one or several "active interests". So if I added Male datable-NPCs I would use the same setup.



Thank You!

(girl chiming in!)

I think it sounds likely to bring up a problem of too much scope, really.

With RPGs like, say, NWN, where you are designing your own character and selecting lots of different options (class, stats, race, AND gender) all of which can make a difference in what quests you get and what people will like you, then it makes sense to have a variety of options available, only some of which can be reached by certain characters, and some of which are harder for certain characters.

Even then, there's complaints of unfairness. RPGs tend to give multiple options for malePC-femaleNPC romances, and only ONE crappy romance for femaleNPC-malePC romances. (And of course, mainstream games generally won't allow any same-sex pairings at all... Except for the gay dentist. )

If you make more options, you have to make sure the paths are 'balanced' and 'fair'. If a female character is going to suffer more difficulty in some areas, she needs to also have it easier in others... Like the possibility of flirting her way past certain challenges that the male character has to deal with in a much more difficult way. Or, if the male PC can only romance women but the female PC can romance men OR women, that would count as a bonus and would make up for the game being harder.

So, to answer the actual *questions*...



See above. I don't care that much about the chance to romance men, except in the context of it being the bonus girl-path content to make up for the girl-path being hard.



Well, while it somewhat depends on how much time and effort you have (remember my too-much-scope comment? It might be better to just make a female-PC game an entirely different game...) I would say two would be a good number. That allows you to rise above the annoyingness of far too many games that make only one romanceable male because they don't think it's worth the effort to do any more than that. Two gives the girl a choice.



Already answered, pretty much - just as long as the female has at least as many options as the male!



Hrm, let me come up with some standard romantic character types.

1. The wounded hero with a heart of gold. Something has happened to this guy that makes him not want to trust people. Probably a woman betrayed him, left him for his brother, or died tragically. Or maybe his mother abandoned his family when he was young. Whatever the reason, he is still definitely a good guy and will help you solve mysteries and fight villains, but he doesn't want to open up emotionally. As for looks.... general leading man, some muscles, older than the female character.

2. The suspicious loner. This guy is even more angsty than the first one. Not only have horrible things happened to him, but he has *done* something bad in the past. He may even be working for the 'bad guys' now, or at least, not working against them. No one trusts him, and he keeps to himself. Only you can lead him to redemption! Looks - BISHONEN! GORGEOUS BROODING BISHONEN! Chicks dig it.

(Other possibilities - the obnoxious friend who picks on you because he LIKES you really, and the worshipful "kid brother" type who follows you around trying to impress you. But the first two are better.)

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Hanako Games

Thank you Papillion for lending your thoughts.

Scope is indeed the primary problem, I'm trying to keep the game as simple as possible but still something I would be proud to share.

I have several game concepts that I've tinkered with, but I went with "The Archer's Curse" due to the fact that it's the most streamlined. Yet I can't release just a basic Dating-Sim, I have to have some Plot and interesting features too or I'll be dissapointed.

Originally the game was designed to include 8 girls, I've since cut that to 4. The other girls are still in the game, but you can't romance them. Perhaps I'll add them in in another version once I get the game finished.

For the Female Character, two of the girls offer a believable romance... one is a bit streched, the other I never wrote because I couldn't find the right angle. This is one of the reasons I've been considering adding Male NPCs to the list. Scope wouldn't be too big of an issue as the only dialog I'd then cut is the one I like the least. Additionally, it would then make things more "fair", the male Protagonist would be able to romance 4 girls, while the female protagonist would have 2 girls and 2 guys to choose from.

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As to the matter of fairness between the options given to Male and Female Protagonists... I don't know, I guess in the end it'll be up to those who play the game to decide. I can say that I didn't stive for "equality" but more for "balance".

Let me give you an idea of the setting/theme, and the background on the character. Oh, the character's name is Morgan (Archer is the surname, heralding back to the time when your last name was basicaly your profession), it's a unisex name and it conveys the appropriate strength I want for the female protagonist.

The setting is a generic hamlet/village in medeval europe, it has some history to it and was a strategic point in the last war with the neighboring country. It's not a fantasy setting, the colors will be very earthy and the mood slightly on the gruff and dreary side. Yet this is not a village that is impoverished or plauged, so for it's time it would be a really nice place to live. There is a local Baron who rules over this town, and it's primary resource is farming... yet since it sits on a main trade route, it has all the amenities of a larger town (Inn, Merchants, Tavern, Stables, etc.). Additionally, when I do commission artwork, I won't be looking for an Anime artist... I want some Anime influence, but I don't want it to be the primary style.

Morgan, the protagonist, was born to a Hero of the last war, you acted as the head of the local militia and helped save the town... he was given an honorary title of Knight by the local Baron and invited to the Keep on numerous occassions to tell his stories to any guests that the Baron had. During that time he met the Baron's Niece, romanced her and fell in love... this made the Baron and his family quite upset, the niece was diowned and Morgan's father's title was revoked. The baron tried hard to break them apart but failed, he couldn't come right out and directly attack Morgan's father because of how loved he was by the village (and he had more sway with the local militia than the Baron did). The Rumor was that he had a curse placed of Morgan's entire family.

Since then tragedy has always befallen the "Archer" family... Less than a year after Morgan's parents wedding, Morgan was born but Morgan's mother died during childbirth. Morgan's father always blamed and resented Morgan for this. Morgan was raised with no love or affection... Since an early age Morgan had to take care of him/herself, and often suffered emotional (and occassionaly physical) abuse by his/her father. Morgan's father took to alchol, gambling and other activites... his health eventualy faded and he passed away shortly before the game starts.

Only a few days after his/her father's funeral (where he was buried as a hero, giving all kinds of mixed feelings to morgan), the Baron (actually the Baron's son, but it's a family feud) shows up... Morgan learns that his/her father hadn't paid taxes for several years, they never took action because he "was a used up old man with no value left"... but debts are passed onto the debtor's family... in otherwords Morgan. Taxes are due at the next Harvest, if Morgan fails to pay the Morgan will be forced into servitude.

The game itself has many of the elements of a dating-sim game, Stat building, earning Money, impressing your paramours.... but it also has some storline, Morgan must pay off the debt... but beyond that Morgan must find out the nature of the curse or tragedy will continue to come.

Obviously it's not a light-hearted game, although I'm not making it a dark game either... if this were to occur to us in this time it would be horrible, but for the era that Morgan lives in... it's not that uncommon, Morgan just has to find a way to triumph.

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A female Protagonist does face quite a higher degree of challenge from a lot of aspects of the game...

Women are supossed to "behave like women", yet Morgan was taking care of herself from a young age, she's independant, strong-willed, and competent at many things that are generally discouraged for women... Hunting and Fighting are the two best examples. She isn't submissive, and kind of likes giving men a hard time.

I'm using a Reputation system in the game, and it's effects are different for the male and female protagonist.... A female Morgan's reputation starts out at "Wild", while the male Morgan's reputation begins at "Skilled"... both refer to how well they fulfill their gender roles... the more skilled/independant/strong/successful Morgan becomes the further up the scale they rise... this is good for a male protagonist, but mixed for a female protagonist (although lower ratings are not "bad" for a female protagonist, but for a male protagonist they are). I also track Respect, it's good for both male & female protagonists. It does work differently for a female Morgan, the higher it rises the more likely she will be taken seriously by the more traditional NPCs, and the more likely she'll gain admittance to certain aspects of the game that are restricted at the beginning... most of the things she can do to raise her Respect rating also raises her Reputation, and vice versa. If a female Morgan's Respect falls low, it's not nearly as bad as for a male Morgan. The last think I track is the "Player" rating (I haven't come up with a better name yet), each girl wants a male Morgan to be within a certain range... if the score is too low or high the character might also get some ribbing (and problems with the family if too high)... for a female Morgan a high rating is Bad, Very Bad... the lower the score the better in practicaly all instances.

These Ratings are the primary way I use to affect the attitudes of the NPCs toward the character, obviously different NPCs place different values on the ratings. Thus most of the increased difficulty for the female protagonist is keeping these ratings where it's best for the particular path you've chosen... while a male character faces less complications.

Ofcourse the gender also plays into effect during certain scenes, a male protagonist is far more likely to have to fight during the game (and far more likely to wind up with ENDING 0 - Death), a female can flirt past some obstacles (but becareful, it can affect your ratings), a male protagonist is EXPECTED to have decent revenue... the female protagonist can be just about dead broke in most cases... the shopkeeper doesn't give a male protagonist any free stuff, and the female protagonist dosen't get kicked out of the local bath area when girls are bathing (ok, she can... but you have to have a really bad rating for that to happen). So there is some balancing factors... not to mention a female Protagonist starts with a bit higher stats.

But as for the relationships, they are more difficult. I basing this off some recent studies which show the rate of homosexuality to be higher in urban (high population density) areas than rural area... the theory is that Homosexuality might be partly related to an instinctive reaction to overpopulation... the same results can be wittnessed in many mammals. So none of the girls are gay, but some will be *curious* if you approach the situation properly... which can lead to a real romance... but there are obstacles: The family's and village's reaction are primary, but the inability to get married and have children is another.

I'll probably make the romance's with the guys easier... well easy if you decide to take on the gender role of a woman (but you won't get the BEST endings)... and still difficult if you try to maintain your independance.

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In response to your character types...

I appreciate the detail, I'll try to incorporate some of that into the two characters I've selected.

The first one is the Bard who performs at the Tavern, he's fairly close to being Bishonen for a game that isn't truely anime style. Hmm, brooding and angsty... that might work, although he might come off as a bit scizophrenic. He's energetic and social at the momment, but there isn't much dialog for him (yet). That could be his "stage persona", then out of the spotlight he becomes... hmm, could work. I originaly thought of him as a bit of a playboy, but I could still incorporate that... the reason he doesn't stay with anyone is because noone really knows him. I'll think about it some...

The second male is the Smithy, definatly fits the older muscled heart of gold concept. I wanted the main obstacle in the relationship to be Morgan's independance, he wants a calm traditional woman to stay at home, take care of the children and provide for. My biggest problem was trying to figure out why he's so traditional if he's helpful and sensitive. The "wounded" concept would work great... he's been married before (in another town, so this info would be hard to get), his wife was a strong-willed, independant sort just like the female protagonist... but she "got herself killed" while fighting for her beliefs... "if she would have only stayed home and let me handle it things would have been different"... yeah, deffinately could work...

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Thank you for your reply!
(Wow, I just realized how long this post is)

It's insane. You're the Tolstoy of message boards!
Oooops... I entered a topic aimed at girls...
*tiptoes away...*

Nothing wrong with a little recon

Nothing wrong with a little recon [/quote]



"Call to all male units in the field! Our position is compromised!! RETREAT RETREAT!!!!"

Err...yeah...nothings wrong with a little recon ...good luck with your game!

_________________
"Life is like a flower....take care of it and watch it bloom......only there will you see its true beauty" - Myself

"Emptiness....that is...true fear...."

-FEAR THE NARU PUNCH!!-

Hmmm. As a girl, I have to say that it wouldn't even matter to me if I didn't have the option to play as a girl. However I think a Yuri game/game with those elements could be cute and fun. Since it would be harder to woo the girls, maybe in the game there could be one girl who is harder to the male PC and easier/more receptive to a female PC? I have no problem with some aspects of the game being harder to girls, especially considering the time period it's more for the sake of realism than anything else.

As for male NPCs... I think the two you have are good, but they are really at either end of two extremes, and something a little different could be nice. When it comes to picking bishonen or muscle-bound, I'd take something in between. Maybe a slightly younger, energetic boy could be fun.

I like your ideas so far, I think this is really interesting. ^__^