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I just realize that my current project (Marchioness' Teacup) features a loli as the main character o.o; ... she is 12 ...

OtomeWeekend wrote:I still think that a loli-type and a person who only lacks development, is different. Maybe the impression the word "loli" gives me is just really wrong Dx

How about shota? does it gives you a wrong impression too?

@gekiganwing: Those situations I'm fine with. It's no longer about festishizing youth, but uses the look to further the story. If it's just ignored that she looks 12 and we're supposed to treat her like an adult, it gets creepy.

HikkiPanda wrote:I just realize that my current project (Marchioness' Teacup) features a loli as the main character o.o; ... she is 12 ...

She looks like she belongs around the other characters, though. Like the guys are around her age. It doesn't seem like 12yo x 30yo. So I'm not really sure it qualifies as loli? "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it" ... Does a young girl count as a loli if no old people are around to make her seem absurdly young?

How about shota? does it gives you a wrong impression too?

It does to me, but I can't speak for OtomeW.

Aleema wrote: @papillon: Janet honestly does look loli. o_O You have to compare her to the world she's in: all the men have long faces with eyes proportionate to their head (in anime terms, lol). Janet's are too big, which make her look childish.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing that it can be seen that way, her eyes are indeed HUJ. Just saying that plenty of people played the game anyway. So if you really want a semi-loli protagonist it won't doom your game to oblivion.

(In my head canon, she'd have to be actively trying to pass for twelve; she looks like a skinny teenager normally, not a child.)

papillon wrote:

Aleema wrote: @papillon: Janet honestly does look loli. o_O You have to compare her to the world she's in: all the men have long faces with eyes proportionate to their head (in anime terms, lol). Janet's are too big, which make her look childish.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing that it can be seen that way, her eyes are indeed HUJ. Just saying that plenty of people played the game anyway. So if you really want a semi-loli protagonist it won't doom your game to oblivion.

(In my head canon, she'd have to be actively trying to pass for twelve; she looks like a skinny teenager normally, not a child.)

Really, Janet looks fine in CGs. It's just her side sprite that's loli. WEIRD.

I don't mind a short female protagonist. What I do mind is if a female protagonist looks like a 12 year old girl and her romance options look like 20-30 year old men...gross. *Shivers* If it looks too creepy pedophilia I won't play it and question those who do.

Ha, I'm a short and relatively flat-chested adult female...and I don't think I look like I'm 12. I hope not anyway, and I'm pretty sure that most of the guys I've dated weren't pedophiles either. It's a body type you don't see well-represented in (Western) mainstream media, which tends to be overstuffed with statuesque, well-developed, Amazonian women. So to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing more women that look like me in a VN. That being said, it should be made clear from the character's physical appearance (face shape, eye size, etc.) that she is an adult.

It's funny because I'm making a game with a short, small-chested woman but I would never, ever call her loli. And she'd punch you for calling her "petite." xD

HikkiPanda wrote: How about shota? does it gives you a wrong impression too?

Yes. I wouldn't mind a a young boy looking like an adult but an adult having a body frame of a 12 or 10 years old? I pass.

I played many otome games and BL games and I never go for a shota chara less I really need to.

(That being said, I do like some shotas too but even though i do like petite girls like Taiga, I won't call her loli. The lolis i really hate are those with small frame and big bust)

LadyAvori wrote:I don't mind a short female protagonist. What I do mind is if a female protagonist looks like a 12 year old girl and her romance options look like 20-30 year old men...gross. *Shivers* If it looks too creepy pedophilia I won't play it and question those who do.

Agree. I never go for the shotas either... I guess that's just me and my preferences XD

Disregarding that in present world many 12 year old girls looks almost like adults.
Disregarding that as a very small person I always liked small childish-looking protagonists.
Disregarding that I always liked a fresh mindset which adults in fiction seem to generally lack
Disregarding that I don't get offended by such things.

If putting such characters into erotic situations makes you feel uncomfortable then well... don't.
I think you can have very deep engaging love without any eroticism if you want.

Personally I really like the triangular theory of love developed by Robert Sternberg
This theory says there are three components of love, and depending on the amount of each of those components we get different types of love.
Those three components are:
"
1. Intimacy – Which encompasses feelings of attachment, closeness, connectedness, and bondedness.
2. Passion – Which encompasses drives connected to both limerence and sexual attraction.
3. Commitment – Which encompasses, in the short term, the decision to remain with another, and in the long term, the shared achievements and plans made with that other.
"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangular_theory_of_love

If you want you can surely develop a complex and deep relationship completely without the passion element. In best case scenario you may end up with something outstanding capable even of changing the way people think about such things.

Aleema wrote:She looks like she's freaking 13 and Snow looks 28, and he's 3 times her size. To me, that reeks of lolicon, even if it's not technically the same. So, no, I can't like smaller bodied girls anymore than actual loli characters. I think Snow is very sexy, but when I see him next to Serah, all I can do is frown (and the Pedobear makes an appearance). It's not enjoyable when I think the man only likes the girl because she looks illegal (and that's honestly the only thing I can think anymore ...) The most successful otome protags are the ones that look as plain jane as possible, even ugly or boyish. So that when the men fall in love with her, it gives the player this "aww he likes me for me and thinks I'm beautiful no matter what" endorphin rush.

Aren't you kind of contradicting yourself here? On the one hand, you say you can't get behind a pairing where one character looks underage; on the over hand, you say you like pairings where people can get together no matter what they look like...

I think there's a distinction between a character who looks petite and an actual lolita type character. If a character is actually 20 or whatever but has a very youthful appearance, they're going to face different challenges as the heroine of an otome game than someone who really is 8 or whatever. (For starters, a protagonist that young is probably too young to actually make proper romantic connections with people.) The youthful looking person might have to overcome people discriminating against her due to her looks, or have to somehow get prospective partners to see past her looks and fall in love with her.

If your protagonist is actually a young girl... Well, like I say, I'm not sure if you can build proper romantic attachments when you're that young. I can see it being fine if you're not actually making a ren'ai game; but if you're doing a typical trying to win a boy scenario... Maybe if they were just trying to make friends, instead of a boyfriend?

on the over hand, you say you like pairings where people can get together no matter what they look like...

Sorry, that's not how I feel. I can see how you got that from what I said, but please bear in mind that there was a preface to that statement and you're taking it out of context. As I said in that very quote, all I can think when I see a loli char with a large/older man is "he only likes her because she looks young." It's irrational, but that's because these are fictional characters; someone designed her to be that way. She didn't happen to look 13. I'm against pedophilia, and if something looks like pedophilia, I am uncomfortable. There's really no argument or reasoning you can use to make me feel differently about that, sorry.

There is a difference between loli and a youthful looking woman, but most of the times it has been simply their age. I'd accept a young-looking romancable character if, for one, her youthful appearance wasn't ignored in the story, two, she doesn't act like a child, and three, the rest of the characters aren't far away from her age.

Slightly different question, but what about a 5-10 year age gap between adult characters? I have a possible love interest in a game who's about 7 or so years older than the protagonist, and had a previous marriage. She's in her early 20's and he's about 30. She's also petite, but not very much (just still looks like a flat-chested 18 year old) Would that be creepy?

^ That scenario sounds fine. I do like older guys, believe it or not. Do I prefer it? Not really. But that's because I hate Carth Syndrome (male romance interests that have ex-wife baggage). Not because of the age thing. If this were a dating sim where ALL the men were 30+ with baggage with a 18yo, that'd be sucky depressing.

Fawn wrote:Slightly different question, but what about a 5-10 year age gap between adult characters? I have a possible love interest in a game who's about 7 or so years older than the protagonist, and had a previous marriage. She's in her early 20's and he's about 30. She's also petite, but not very much (just still looks like a flat-chested 18 year old) Would that be creepy?

Again, my standard is prettly low, so I'm fine with anything (shota, loli, yuri, yaoi, etc) .. as long as the story is good