People quitting a project

[JRFive]

This is interesting yet unfortunate to hear that it's hard to find reliable partners to work with, especially for someone like me who has been thinking of finding people to help with a project. Maybe its good to at least have people to bounce ideas off of, or discuss things with?

I also see the point about it being even harder to find writers because they won't necessarily commit as much as artists would for something they aren't really excited about. So how do you become a better writer then? Any good books to read or ideas on that might help.

Personally and honestly I have been known to be overambitious sometimes heh. And I haven't always had the well-practiced skills or motivation to back it up. Like with the visual novel idea I first came up with about 3 years ago I would just get bogged down on the scope of it I think (for example when thinking about a scientifically plausible way to split the mind and body which is obviously tough lol), and would just like avoid thinking about it enough in frustration. I think I'm good at coming up with ideas though and will stand by them. I have completed big projects practically on my own before though, like an animated short and a whole fighting game mod.
I think it would be nice to have good collaborative experience if possible. Even if like I said its just to brainstorm and bounce around ideas with someone.

[Gear]

I worked with an artist for some time on one of my projects, but (s)he vanished completely, no longer answering e-mails without any explanation. This person was still active on the Internet, I could see that, but refused to communicate with me. This person will still be credited in my project for the work (s)he did, but it did teach me that safety in numbers applies here. That's why I'm good with multiple people in the same role on a project.

[redeyesblackpanda]

@redeyesblackpanda: The mental image of my friend smashing my computer made me giggle. Curious, what contingency plans do you make?

Of course, this varies by situation, but here are some things:
I've got a mental list of alternate people that I can try to turn to. I also make sure I have all the materials (if someone bails, the worst thing is to lose everything they've been working on). Sometimes, I do what they're doing too, albeit, lower quality and with less effort, just in case I really need something done by a certain time (this doesn't apply to VNs too much, because, generally, quality matters more than deadlines). I try not to put myself in a position where I'm relying on someone completely and can't do anything until they finish their task. The best thing is to still be able to work on something productive while you search for a replacement (less wasted time). Also, it's a good idea to have an idea of exactly what the person you're having do is. It can be good to have more than one person working on the same thing, that way if one of them leaves, the other can pick up the slack until you've found a replacement (or finish). That's one of the reasons as to why big projects want multiple artists, writers, etc.

[Reikun]

@Reikun: Now that I think about it... Bailing in the long run is better since you clarified to the person that you're bailing, and also stating your reason/s for doing so. It's difficult if the person is confused if someone's bailing, or just want a break, or is just being confusing. ^_^

Well... in some situations it's better in the long run for the project if someone bails regardless of their reasons. Then the person running the project knows they don't need to wait on anyone and the bailer/volunteer/whatever doesn't have to deal with a project they aren't dedicated too. I just think the important part if someone absolutely has to leave a project is that they make it clear why they can no longer work on it. I think that way no feelings are "hurt" and everyone can just go on with their lives.

[Taleweaver]

Gotta go for the defense of us writers a little.

While it is true that "us writers" like it if we can devote all of our creativity to a project and essentially write our own stories unfettered by what others want, many of us are surprisingly good at interpreting the wishes and ideas of other people so that they become something they're comfortable with and can write as though it was their own idea. Me, I wrote the script to Zenith Chronicles with all the characters, the main plot, the intersection in paths and the "big reveal" already pre-defined by Blue Lemma, and I still managed to present him with a concept that was original enough to be "mine" and was immensely fun to flesh out afterwards. Same with Elspeth's Garden, DaFool's current large project: he has essentially an entire world already worked out in beautiful detail and a very good idea of an overall plot that even mentions individual scenes. And still the project leaves me enough liberty to make it immensely fun for me to write because I can interpret the setting in a way that appeals to me.

Many writers are capable of doing this; if you hire a writer, however, you need to trust him or her to do a good job. If your writer feels like held on a leash, that's probably not the best grounds for a good cooperation. Still, a good writer usually won't bail - unless it's very early in the project and his ideas are too different from what the original creator wants. Not every writer is suited to every job. (Me, I don't think I could write BL, for example.)

[Patty]

It's trail and error in a way. That and practice. There are of course signs to look for and make sure you chat with someone before agreeing to help out. Signs to look out for if what they have in the way of completed and uncompleted projects. Completed projects are a significant plus. Uncompleted projects are a minus, the more there are the worse it is. It generally shows that that person may have the ability to work on long term projects right at that moment. If they are new and haven't done anything, check how ambitious they are. If they are looking to do a super awesome best ever game, then they are looking at things unrealistically and will be unlikely to follow through. Look at their history of work and what they are able to produce. Check that they have similar interests, are polite and mature. Makes conflict resolution easier. If you are not to sure, sign up for smaller projects with a person or people to get to know more about them. A project that takes a couple months will tell you a lot about the people and whether you could work with them on something longer. I would presume you are looking for a partnership rather than someone telling you what to do or vice versa, so you need to find someone that compliments you. Don't be too quick to jump on a project if you are not sure you will be able to stick with it. Being aware of who you are teaming up with will help reduce the risk of bailing.

The first project I worked on didn't go that well, and didn't get far. It was probably unlikely to work from the beginning. I worked on a couple other projects and I recently teamed up with Camille. Even though the story is primarily hers, I haven't felt happier to work on something (Previously I have felt like I have had to compromise on what I like to do what others like, which isn't that bad, but this is just more comfortable). We have similar ideals and haven't really had any conflicts about anything. She is very driven and works really hard, plus she can do a lot of things I can't (I just draw XD). So it has worked really well for me.

I'm glad you found a good partner who suits you! (Off-topic: Played Break Chance Memento demo before, loved it. ) Maybe first projects are sort of a stepping stone for experience...
Compromising on what others like... They were controlling? :l Like everything goes according to what they want and don't listen to other suggestions?

Personally and honestly I have been known to be overambitious sometimes heh. And I haven't always had the well-practiced skills or motivation to back it up. Like with the visual novel idea I first came up with about 3 years ago I would just get bogged down on the scope of it I think (for example when thinking about a scientifically plausible way to split the mind and body which is obviously tough lol), and would just like avoid thinking about it enough in frustration. I think I'm good at coming up with ideas though and will stand by them. I have completed big projects practically on my own before though, like an animated short and a whole fighting game mod.

I can sympathize! So many ideas...but some are just so big and hard to execute I've experienced having a good plot and characters for a fanfic, and sort of gave up because it would be too long. I still draw my characters from time to time and remember each one's personality, backstory, and relationships with the cast. Maybe I just love the characters too much. ^_^;;

I worked with an artist for some time on one of my projects, but (s)he vanished completely, no longer answering e-mails without any explanation. This person was still active on the Internet, I could see that, but refused to communicate with me. This person will still be credited in my project for the work (s)he did, but it did teach me that safety in numbers applies here. That's why I'm good with multiple people in the same role on a project.

Of course, this varies by situation, but here are some things:
I've got a mental list of alternate people that I can try to turn to. I also make sure I have all the materials (if someone bails, the worst thing is to lose everything they've been working on). Sometimes, I do what they're doing too, albeit, lower quality and with less effort, just in case I really need something done by a certain time (this doesn't apply to VNs too much, because, generally, quality matters more than deadlines). I try not to put myself in a position where I'm relying on someone completely and can't do anything until they finish their task. The best thing is to still be able to work on something productive while you search for a replacement (less wasted time). Also, it's a good idea to have an idea of exactly what the person you're having do is. It can be good to have more than one person working on the same thing, that way if one of them leaves, the other can pick up the slack until you've found a replacement (or finish). That's one of the reasons as to why big projects want multiple artists, writers, etc.

To both Gear and redeyesblackpanda: Do you have problems with multiples artists since they have different styles of art? :l I imagine it would be difficult if one left, and the others' style vary a bit.

They were worth it. Each and every project. Even those I finally ended up dropping out of frustration; I really should have completed games like "Foxtaile" or "Inside/Outside" and was angry at myself afterwards, so angry that when I finally came to a similar situation in "The Dreaming", I just went ahead and published the game without completed art and using a few of the existing character sketches in the place of the "real art". And what happened? It became the game I got more credit for than ever before. This just goes to show that if you really, really believe in something, you have an obligation towards yourself to get it done.

Wow... I think that goes to show that the author loved his or her project. I find it difficult to have confidence in my projects sometimes. :l I set high standards for script, art, GUI, and when I don't meet them I end up losing confidence. ^_^;;

Not every writer is suited to every job. (Me, I don't think I could write BL, for example.)

(Writing BL seems...off-putting. :l XD I can tolerate reading it, but writing is a whole new thing. )

[Auro-Cyanide]

I'm glad you found a good partner who suits you! (Off-topic: Played Break Chance Memento demo before, loved it. ) Maybe first projects are sort of a stepping stone for experience...
Compromising on what others like... They were controlling? :l Like everything goes according to what they want and don't listen to other suggestions?

(Thank you, I'm glad you liked it ^_^) It can come across in different ways in my opinion, and most of the time it isn't even something they mean to do. This is for free work mind you, when you are being paid it's your job and you do it properly. Free work is another kettle of fish.

People... often have a very strong idea of what they want, but they might lack the skills to create it. So they look for people to 'help' them. I don't think this is a very good frame of mind to approuch things in. It's all very well and good to know what you would like, as this can be helpful when someone is seeking direction. Please note I said like. It might not what you are able to get. They don't mean to, but what they are doing is approuching someone to use them as a tool, a means to an end. And that isn't too bad in small burst. But for longer things, like VNs, it can be very tiring to do what others want when you choose to sign up in the first place to have fun (which is often one of the main goals when you choose to work for free). You can't get inside someone's head, so it can be hard figuring out what they want. The further you are away from them in terms of likes and dislikes can also cause problems. Many people are very close to their projects and aren't going to change them for anybody. This can make it very hard when you have disagreements about what should happen. Then you get people who are actually controlling, which is very difficult to deal with. They keep wanting you to changes things to fit what they have in their head. This can be extremely difficult when you are still learning, as I was. I couldn't easily achieve what they wanted, if at all, and it left me drawing the same things over and over. In the end you think 'Well, why don't you draw it' and that's when you quit XD

But yeah, team work often requires compromises, and compromises are sometimes not something people can make. But you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Mink]

Huh, haven't had this problem...yet. Hopefully never. Then again, I think the reason I try to do nearly everything myself is because I've been burned in real life working in groups. And I mean things in a class my grade may depend on, so...yeah. I'll probably do more art myself when A) I get better at art, and B) I get a tablet.

And I'm not that close to my projects where something must exactly fit the image of what's in my head. Or I'll ask an artist I'm working with, "Is this doable?" If not, I can write around it. I wouldn't rage!quit over something like that.

Not every writer is suited to every job. (Me, I don't think I could write BL, for example.)

(Writing BL seems...off-putting. :l XD I can tolerate reading it, but writing is a whole new thing. )

The only reason I wouldn't want to write BL/yaoi is if the person I'm writing for tried to make me write every stereotype/cliche possible for that. Or basically: make me write a story that's the reason I rarely read it to begin with. Otherwise, sure.

Edit: On that note, my current avatar is a character from a yaoi comic that I actually like.