Wow.
I'm speechless.
I just went through all 8 endings in one go and the emotional feedback of the game was profound.
I can see what you meant about it being a bit negative.
Nevertheless, I enjoyed it greatly. Now for some feedback of my own.
My favorite endings were the True Ending and the Eternal Bride.
The True ending was nice as it allowed the character to repent for his sins and reunite with his loves in the afterlife.
It was also quite bittersweet with everyone dying at the end.
The Eternal Bride surprized me as I didn't expect Rosetta to take her undeath so well and expected her to either commit suicide straight away or to kill me first and commit suicide later.
In the end however, not only are you and your loved one united forever, but you've got your own land and as an added bonus the undead decided not to eradicate humanity after all.
That's like every transhumanists dream!
The characters were likable as well.
Zewoe, whom I assumed to be a stereotype of a "cowardly and treacherous underling" ended up being quite loyal and even turned out to be caring towards Marliene.
After seeing his sensitive side I admit that I'm almost sorry that I fed him his daughter in the end.
The dark overlord who wanted nothing more but to bring joy and happiness to the world through fire and brimstone wasn't such a bad guy either. He gave humans a whooping of 8 hours of light and even stopped the army's advance when I asked him. (The latter was a surprize to me as I would never expect him to do that).
The other two endings I really enjoyed was me sitting on Krotus' throne, freezing some would be heroes, and the same one but with Mariene. I honestly laughed out loud as I watched the CG and she suddenly appeared on my lap. Priceless!
The only thing that I didn't like was the cliche portrayal of the "dark army", where underlings are killed without a second thought and the only motivation of any high ranking individual is to usurp the throne in a violent takeover.
I mean I know they're all undead abominations, but undead abominations have feelings too!
I would've thought that someone so open minded towards the idea of devoiding the world of all life would flesh out a more realistic portrayal of an "evil" society.
The only question I have to complete the story for me, was Krotus actually my father, or just a demon using his body?
Overall I think it was a great game, which did a good job at illustrating just how fragile life could be.
Well. Frederone is a rather calculative one, so he tends to be able to avoid risks than to encounter them.
It appears that many favor ending with Marliene more. It is rather unfortunate that I am not able to flesh out her characteristics more...
@Nobody:
Dog ears? Now that is one unique comment I ever heard of Frederone.
If anything, his hood is joked as "rocket hat" or something to that. As for the name, yes, it is quite lame but I decide to keep it for memorial's sake.
As for Frederone's obedience, as told in The Good Ending and The Better Ending(With Marliene), Krotus had given Frederone a chance to proceed on living(Even reanimated) that he is able to carry on with his former life's task. Also, as a lich who receives life source from Krotus, rebellion is not tolerable, else the betrayer might be severed(Like Jubeist). Thus, Frederone's obedience is both for fear of being severed, and also gratitude.
Yes, I am afraid there are some unnecessary fanservices in an attempt to display some scenes.
@Hudson:
Finally, some love for the rose queen too!
If anything, Rosetta had a deep affection over Frederic, but it was later clouded when she started blaming herself for causing permanent damage to his hand.
Zewoe is smart for a lesser lich, to say least. Just like how his signet represents him "claws holding an eye", he is capable of grasping other's weakspot and flattering them(Just like how he knows of Frederone's affection for Rosetta). That ensures his survivalibility.
Krotus is not necessarily evil. He only does what he is commanded when summoned - "Stop the war, and reunite the continent". In ruling route, he reunites the continent by ruling it. While in Eternal Bride route, well, Southea is pretty much eliminated and with Northel broken, conflicts have been subdued.
While it is true that a dark army does not necessarily mean chaos in ruling, the thing that differentiates about a dark army to a normal one is that superiors are not honored because of respect, but more to power. Underlings obey to their superiors for their strength, but every now and then, they struggle to turn the table. Of course, that happens in any human groups as well, so it is hard to say a "dark army" is evil.
By too late (in the Renairody post) I meant too late in the evening
Well, here are my thoughts then. Will keep it spoiler free for the most part:
PROS:
* It was a type of game I enjoyed, wherein the romantic aspect is, at least nominally, not the main drive of the character, bust something that happens along the way.
* I enjoyed the general plot, and the no-holds barred manner of story-telling, from the actions of the characters, to the background CGs. These were very effective in giving the game a dark atmosphere.
* The endings were well done (from what I can see - still missing 2). There was enough variety in them to make each distinct, and enough logic that one could see how the variations flowed from the choices you made. The True ending was especially well handled, especially the ending CGs.
CONS:
* While brevity is to be praised, this is a story I think which could have benefited from being longer. A prologue of some sort would have helped, to establish the relationships between the protagonist and certain key players in his earlier life. This would also solve one of the other issues I had - that the introduction of the first girl seems to come out of left field. If she was that important to the protagonist, she would have been at the forefront of his thoughts during trying times, even with the situation with his father.
* There were certain awkward phrasings in the text, insofar as tense consistency and word useage is concerned. Not enough to really impact the game, but often enough that its noticeable.
All in all though, a very entertaining hour or so. Thanks FIA ^_^
Nafai wrote:While brevity is to be praised, this is a story I think which could have benefited from being longer.
One thing I do when I see that a particular writing style is very condensed, I start to read slower and look at the pictures and often re-read the sentences. It's a bit unorthodox, but actually it often works - especially in VNs this is a big reason why I dislike filler text - I'd much rather slow down than speed up - and when you have music and images, it comes quite natural for me to tap the brake a bit when reading to enjoy the piece fully. This isn't to say that perhaps a longer intro wouldn't have benefitted the work, but at least for me it needed pointing out before I realized that it probably was "in medias res" quite quickly.
The story I thought was really substantial, a lot of things not only going on, but also being hinted at, there was a good feel of depth - somehow unlike a lot of philosophic inserts in other games where a protagonist may ask himself a question with several possible answers and the reader is required to find (as in "create") the answer, this was different in here - here I got the impression that the answes were already there, you just had to uncover them. Well, it's not easy to explain, but there was a real sense of background - and this extends to the game world as well, I didn't get that feeling that a lot of fantasy titles seem to evoke in me - that the backdrop was somehow constructed for the game. It feels very integral and natural in WS.
On a different note, this is a rare example of a 640x480 game - I have the impression that recently almost every new game was designed for 800x600.
Yes, I am afraid it is quite short in story telling matter. Guess I am not able to think up more lines with Frederone, especially when he is not really a talkative one. I have been thinking about making more conversations with Metheus, but cannot think up an appropriate subject.
Still, I am glad you enjoy the hour playing this game.
@ mikey: Heh, it is true that I did put in some hint in every possible routes, and I am glad you noticed them. For example,
Regarding "severed", you can only witness that only when Marliene is corrupted. And the fact about reanimated can no longer reanimated after dying one more time is littered all over the game. There are also more, but I will let the players to find them.
Oh, as for the resolution, it is my choice to adapt a more classic theme, since old vns game uses 640x480 as well.
I have been thinking about making more conversations with Metheus
Yeah, _I_ really want more dialoge with Metheues *Huggles Metheus* and perhaps some CG's too....
MEEP... Misa want Winter Shard 1.1 with Metheus ending....
Actually, I drew some fanart that even Homophobs can view,(still featuring my current fav. BL couple) but I can't get it up right now. You will just have to wait two weeks.
See? This happens when the game reaches an unintended audinence.
And a series must be very good/popular to have yaoi fans
Playing some more of Winter Shard and I just noticed I can't get the joystick to work with it o_O... it's worked for every Ren'Py game so far and this time I get a grayed out joystick option ...
Are you making a sequel?
I wish you would because...
SPOILER SPOILER rest of the post refers to the endings SPOILER (best i can do)I really enjoyed playing the Evil God path multiple times, and i liked thinking about the current power lvl of Fred and i asked myself, "Can he gain power still or is the full power of a greater demon his limit? If so, then what would happen if a group of the defeated got together and summoned a even greater demon to fight Fred? Wouldn't that be easy enough to do as a single person summoning the original demon who started the current story? (If you disregard the underlying reason of course which was the war itself) Or did you plan that out with the fact that Fred is smart and he thus by having a cult, has a eye in the world of cults which allows him access to most major cults of the world of thus he is easily able to spot any such attempts to destroy him. Also is Fred considered a demon as well as a lich because he absorbed the power from a greater demon and thus does he have titles in the makai as well?
Also i wondered about the true end. I wanted to know if the fact that he split into all those shards means that a necromancer wouldn't be able to take those shards and absorb some of Freds energy or if all of it went back to the creator and the shards were completely non-magical in nature.
Also if demons exist then does that mean that the Christian 'God' exists also or is that another element left to the mind of the veiwer. I mean Fred didn't devour the power of the fallen angel Lucifer so wouldn't (even if Kratos was the 3rd strongest of all) that make him the 3rd power in all of creation? Or is that a subtle hint that Fred gained a great deal of power after the backstabbing that he had accumulaed enough power that he out classed the Prince and Ruler of the two Hs? Or is that a planned sequel in which he achieves even greater powers and assaults Heaven and Hell and of course discovers a way to bend entrophy to his own will and thus become a real god? (By being able to manipulate the stuff used to create anything in its raw base form)
If you continue at all and use the true end, would you go more into the 'God' and redemption or make Fred in hell get into a horrible situation for trying to destroy a great servant of Lucifer? Or was Kratos a ****er who was the one picked to go to the planet because he tried to take the throne? Or is this another, ("We humans have some book that names many demons and with proper sacrifices we can summon any of them stories?") and thus Fred actually get rewarded with becoming a true demon and then we get to see his adventures trying to gain power or redemption from the position of a demon...?
Please don't make a sequel in the same world but with a new character though.. I would hate being one of the minions of Kratos who suddenly gained free will as a result of the battles weakening Kratos and who wants to be the new enforcer then takeover by themsel---- errrrr wait that would actually be good but not as a direct sequel because i would much rather learn about Fred and oddly i never took into account that you more likely than not don't actually have a sequel planned before writing in my long boring piece. I hope you respond to this post and I wish you luck with whatever project you are doing at the moment, or a good relaxing rest if you're burnt out at the moment.
Wow, those are some questions. I will try to answer them.
For Frederone's power, the only thing I can say that he is unmatched in the mortal realm. As for the possibility of others summoning an even greater demon, I am afraid I have to say that might not be possible, given Frederone's wit. Else, the circle will just repeat itself over and over again.
As for the true ending, when his energy slowly slips away, his flesh turns into ice, later shattering into shards. As for if they still carry on a hint of his strength, I highly doubt that. Though as every winter come, so will the shards in the billowing wind.
I try to make my own story, thus I am afraid it is not related to either side. Thus, Krotus is definitely not Kratos. Sorry for the disappointment.
As for a sequel, I doubt I will really make one except as a cameo. While I have to admit that there are still a lot of problems littered all over it(The art quality, for example), I am one who hates sequel in general.
(Scattered Spoilers in the whole post)mmm thank you for replying. Another thing i wondered when i thought of it was, "What happened to Metheus in the other ends?" I mean it only shows in the true end really.... Hes not like Marliene where its at least semi clear in most ends what happened. Is it because of his bit character status? But, if you put all these things i think about, you would end up with ends that never, well end!
Also about sequels your right, sequels have a hard time unless you intentionally create potential problems. Your story vaguely reminds me of the Warcraft series Arthas. Thats why in a bunch of the good/neutral ends i was wondering (at that point of time) whether or not, the fact that he still drew power from a greater source if it was possible that if/when Krotus's anchor to the world was weakened for any reason would that in turn weaken Fred much like it did in Warcraft 3 with Arthas?
Its to bad your not going to create a sequel but as i showed from the ideas i had, it would be a hard game to create as if you used the same character directly from the True Ending, it would get far to deep into religion in order to continue. (Well unless you like the idea of having hate mail about religion.) So i do feel more of a closure then when i played Warcraft where i was like... hmm wait a second what about the Legion commanders and the extreme power they hold? I mean Arthas was only the champion of a being thousands of times greater than himself but still weaker than the higher command of the Legion. (Ummm... I really hoped you played the Warcraft series otherwise my example doesn't come through as well...)
As for the art, i liked it myself. None of the pictures were, "Damn its too bright for this game", or "Oww my eyes hurt from how inconsistent they are." As i said before (in another post in magbou) this game made me happily moody which is good.
The shards of winter, coming with every winter seems to hint at some godly, demonic, or other force being involved at least a miniscule level. Or it creates the question how do the shards stay together throughout the year otherwise. Hmm the fact that the shards exist still make me wonder why wouldn't a magic user try to get a shard and place it onto a staff or in some other item to try to channel even a fragment of the near unlimited (to humans) power that was held within the body those shards came from. (Hmm that makes me think another sequel idea... A mad wizard gathers up the shards and trys to summon up Fred but he ends up summoning a) a fragment of what fred was in which case it would have to have his intellect at the least, b) the shards have just enough unuseable energy that it resummons Krotus as the power did come from him in the first place, or c) it fails over and over again so we get to see him try to summon other powers with less power. That could make something with the apprentice trying to stop/help the wizard in order to stop another disaster/ gain power to betray him.) Or did you mean that some trace of the shards becoming every smaller as time passes remain? (That would fit as the last bits of Freds power faded but it was in such a chaotic state that it wasn't power that could be assessed by anything at all.)That would be symbolic because no matter how much people say, "We'll never forget the evil that happened", (Thats the normal persons idea, in which they overlook the fact that Krotus was giving them some sunshine) it is shown in many games already that it does take a while but after a few hundred years near everything is forgotten. Especially in the earlier times with the books having to be made hand written, how many would record Fred as but a footnote? It would probably say something like, 'The overlord of the year of XXX, (notice how they don't put evil in case Krotus is watching) had a right hand man who rebeled against him and he of course failed (flattery from slight fear since it was written right after the event or a few years later). We do not know why he rebeled but we think it was probably to gain more power than he already had.' (Slander the demons foes so if he returns the historians are not screwed.) Hmm you could also be saying that Krotus did that as his last action before the body owner took over again. It is a classic gesture to make some slight mark in the world with the passing of a foe. Hmm that also makes me wonder if he would have created an eternal statue such as what Fred did in worse ending. That would also have fit but because of the fact that he was hit at the same time, his spell only worked to part of its affect but not in the controlled matter that was what Krotus envisioned. Also why did it take so long for his energy to slip away? I mean is that to show how much the energy was part of him by then, that even his cells held on to the power on his own for a while?!? Or was it just for dramatics and to actually have time to show the sprits trying to save him and all? Oh another sequel idea... You could have made him into a Jedi like ghost like in starwars. It amazes me how many different ends your story makes me think up.
The true end doesn't say if its just the anchor thats lost and Krotus was sent back to where he came from or not. So the historians would hesitate to put a dramatic label or mention the fact that the power in question was demonic and that Fred was a powerful lich. This would make the story as forgetable as a fable in about 3 generations or so.
Oh i also like your wording in which you imply that beings or greater strength exist elsewhere... Hmm also how does the E.G. Fred stop such things from happening? 'Greater Demon stops all such rituals' would take such a great deal of power i don't see how much would be left to the followers and to his own enjoyment to laugh at certain people attacking him, as i assume the foolhardy do still try to do what they did in other evil ends. .....uggg that made me think of something again. Did you leave the resistance to Krotus out just to make the ends of similar length or did you mean to imply that the world didn't have the resources/desire to rebel against Krotus, (in which case i wonder how they did so in the other ends) and that they were so afraid of the title of Krotus that they didn't send heros on by to be destroyed by Fred? Or would that have made it too similar to the other ending, which made you not want to show Fred dealing with intruders. With a quote of something like 'This life isn't too bad i may be the lone enforcer, but i can still play with these mortals all i want' (That in itself would have been a great ending...) Hmm you could also split the eternal servant endings into one of 'I didn't want to take the chance to rebel because even if its wrong, he is the source of my power' and the other 'I wait for a true oportunity that may never come, but i am immortal and without a foe what fun would the world be?' That would probably create the sense that we the players really affected Freds outlook. Then again that would also make me ask about the other ends.
Why is it that if you accept Marliene (even if you let a certain thing happen to her) it automatically assumes in the good path that you love her? Also i wondered why when i allowed the event to happen, Fred didn't treat her worse, i mean from that view, he didn't love her since he did let the event happen... So why does she still seem to love Fred in the evil end? Is it just ignorence of you seeing the event which is sorta what broke her in the E.G. ending? Or does she love you but Fred is pretty neutral happen or something? He seems to be just fine with making her the Queen but i would think if you took every other less caring choice before that Fred wouldn't have made her his queen. Is the title mocking? And his words sarcastic but the same words? Thats the best i can think of the way i picture the end for that line of thought.
By replaying through a few times to reabsorb some of the story to ask these questions today, i also wondered about the hunger Fred had when his body was dieing. Did that hunger just go away after he was 'dead' but still alive and ruler? I would think a end with endless feasting would be a possible end also, but that would blemish Fred and his intellect which is why you didn't use that as a potential ending right? Afterall his intellect is the most important thing your trying to show in this story i would say. I mean if you don't think before the siege already your gone... It crates the mental image of a extremely smart person no matter what other end you get. Its jsut the love aspect overpowered it a bit in some of the ends.
Rosetta killing herself is one of the being blind when in love cases. During my first playthrough, i just loved her but i figured that if i didn't contribute to the seige there was a end which would make me be severed, after watching Krotus slowly drain the power from a chained Rosetta. So i went with the greater good of, 'Maybe later on i can do something with her but now it would be out of character and stupid to refuse so many direct orders of the lord.' I liked her color hair better than the red of Marliene, even if red is my favorite color, it just doesn't fit in with this story well enough. It would have fit better if you had shown us more blood during the dinner scene, as well as the death scene but that would raise rateing way to much i'm sure.... But to me the armor was a bit to bright to fit perfectly but it wasn't so much brighter that i disliked it enough to get angry at the game. At least you didn't use this way to bright color I hope i don't sound like a back seat driver or i don't sound like i'm
questioning your judgements in making the game, as i know that i would never have anywhere near the ability to be able to create and compose a story. It is more the way i talk then trying to make you mad or any other such goal. I thank you again for responding too my post and i hope you respond to this one as well.
I saw the glasses but seeing you avator made me think another question.
(I finally saw how to make spoilers...) As a E.G. does Fred still use glasses or is the fact that you didn't show E.G. Fred imply that he does not use glasses now but you figured that the art for that looked odd? Or is it just to add to the picture of godhood? I mean you never show a god in all his glory or else it ruins the effect as it gets people feeling that if the god manifests here, he must not be too far away from the level of mere mortals and thus, "we can revolt with even more vigor!!" Already the knowledge that he was once mortal (wait... How did they know that hes a lich not a demon minion summoned up by Krotus) spured the people to revolt against Fred. Or at least thats another possible reason i thought up after posting the last message i just wrote a few minutes ago... I notice he wears the glasses as the King and all, but, kings can have weaknesses without looking stupid. But gods can't have a visable form without people wondering if they can be captured, enslaved, or destroyed. (Most likely the first 2 is the hope of most of mankind during any period...)
This is another i wish you would make a sequel idea. It would have Fred trying to get out of enslavement and then we get to choose how merciful he is... With ends like 'God of Light' in which all is forgiven and he ascends up to 'true' godhood (which actually doesn't sound like something you would write as its a bit to cliche), or 'New God of Death' in which Fred is so angry he keeps everything in the whole universe (you heard me right) alive and he judges when anything will die thus crippling all other gods powers. I mean that would put in the power issue again but you would probably be able to find a way around that with something like the belief (Black & White) in him grew strong enough that no other god had any influence anymore. Hmm but this idea lacks some of the darkness of the previous ones as its a parody. My thought is your creature is one of those Dreadnaughts!! (By replaying the start of the game to find its name, i also wondered something else....) How did the priest know who you were? Its in your birthtown and your known there? Or did you have posters up with Fred on them? I mean how would a random priest know all the Heretics in the world? The fact the girl didn't know sorta tells me that they don't all know... Which would be another 'lets laugh at the church thing' I thought the church was at the height of its power during that time still... So the story would have palidins or something challengeing you if anything... Then again all the frozen could be thought of as palidins which could also be laughing at the religion. (Note: the other hint i see is the fact that he claims himself to be a greater god, sorry for not posting that before.)
Oh and how was his vision anyway? (Generally or specifically is fine either way..) I didn't know glasses existed without looking bulky or even existed at all in that time period. Hmmm i probably missed it, it probably tells somewhere about his father being dissapointed because of the glasses as well as lack of swordskill. Wait a second... if he lacked swordskill how did he even kill Krotus in the true end? I mean he aimed well and quickly enough that a greater demon wasn't able to move away or something in time.... I would say that makes him have the super reflexes of the undead with cosmetic glasses or he hid his prowness from his father in perhaps a small part of his mind. Unquestionable loyalty is shown in the fact taht you defend your father even in the E.G. path (by killing his naysayer). But unquestionable loyalty does not mean you don't despise the person to a certain extent for putting to much pressure on you. In fact that could also be a cool prequel... Have the option to snap and try to kill him resulting in failure but, at least you die unfulfilled again.
Hmm also if your not making a sequel could you make a prequel story with less control given to us players, but that shows the hydra, the war buddies and the friendship they held, and more on the childhood of Rosetta and Fred?
I thank you again for your efforts and i hope you answer this post as well
In my haste in reading your response i forgot to check if you answered all of my questions from the original post. The ones that went unanswered were,
"Can he still gain power?", the indirect one that asked "Do necromancers exist or was the demon reanimating a new thing for them is part of the terror?", and "By claiming godhood does that mean he can bend entrophy and create life from himself? Or is he a E.G. of Destruction?"
...