Need artists for my project.

[NewMember]

I don't think this counts as double post in a bad way at least because the 2 posts are not relevant to each other not to mention I am pretty sure you can put a new post in the recruitment if you need a new type of member aka story writer or composer.

[HigurashiKira]

They may not be relevant, but another definition of a double post:

3) Simply two posts by the same member, regardless of reason, after each other.

And regarding your site, why is there a shop? You are selling artwork that was made by others without their (visible) concent

[NewMember]

Wendel, Pamela and Supah Fox I paid for them to be drawed and Lordcloudx and PlatonicHeart both who were working on this did say they didn't want any money and if I remember correctly once when I tried to commison lordcloudx he/she said no.

[HigurashiKira]

But you are still selling their work, they are the right-holders of the art. You can't just sell it without getting the permission to do so from them even if it was a commision.
(Commision=/= Permission)

[NewMember]

I have Pm all of them about it right now.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

Wendel, Pamela and Supah Fox I paid for them to be drawed and Lordcloudx and PlatonicHeart both who were working on this did say they didn't want any money and if I remember correctly once when I tried to commison lordcloudx he/she said no.

But you are still selling their work, they are the right-holders of the art. You can't just sell it without getting the permission to do so from them even if it was a commision.
(Commision=/= Permission)

Yeah, what HigurashiKira has said is correct. The artist has to specify WHERE, WHEN, IN WHAT WAY, and for HOW LONG their artwork can be used. This needs to be agreed on by both parties before money changes hands or work is done. It it why professionals use contracts.

Even if work is done for free, a release form needs to be signed by the artist giving up all rights to the images use for themselves.

I known a lot of people on the board are doing this as an amateur hobby, but the artists charging for their work or getting commissions or doing stuff for free really need to be aware of these things. It hurts all artists who freelance when you don't follow the proper procedures, because you build false impressions and expectations in the public seeking our services. And those procedures may seem cumbersome or unnecessary, but they are there for a reason.

Today it is someone selling your art on Deviatart because they perhaps didn't know better. Tomorrow it could be someone using your art for a business logo or an advertising campaign, and you could be out tens of thousands of potential dollars. Even artwork done for an amateur today could be used later for their professional work if you don't have a contract.

Oh, and everyone says they don't care - until it happens to them. Everyone involved here needs to educate themselves on the applicable copyright and usage laws. These are pretty uniformly the same across almost all countries.

I say this because I am fairly concerned at how haphazard everything has gone in this thread, only to culminate in the DeviantArt selling thing.

[NewMember]

In retrospect there was no kind of agreement made on how to use them. The artist does have to tell the conditions before the deal is met right. Lordcloudx seems to have agreed to do it as long he/she gets a cut of the profits. Don't know about platonic heart or sapphi though what happens if no kind of agreement was made when the drawing where made and used for profit infact there is still no agreement on the matter.Does anyone know a good site for legal documents on this type of things. I think it would be a good idea for the artists to sign something before they draw.

[Auro-Cyanide]

If there is no prior agreement, than it is presumed that the artist has full copyright of the actual artwork and so retain ownership. Artists have to agree to hand over the rights, it is not presumed. Rights usually require compensation, either forward payment or royalties. If you make money from their work without their agreement, they are able to sue you. If it is on DA, they can request admin to shut it down because they are the rightful owners.

Even though I work for commission, I always retain the rights of the work I produce. If the commissioner wants something different, for instance non-disclosure or the rights, than they need to ask, I need to agree, and I would want to be compensated in some way. Basically, you can't make money off of people without giving them something in return. It is illegal and immoral.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

In retrospect there was no kind of agreement made on how to use them. The artist does have to tell the conditions before the deal is met right. Lordcloudx seems to have agreed to do it as long he/she gets a cut of the profits. Don't know about platonic heart or sapphi though what happens if no kind of agreement was made when the drawing where made and used for profit infact there is still no agreement on the matter.Does anyone know a good site for legal documents on this type of things. I think it would be a good idea for the artists to sign something before they draw.

Generally it is best to find a lawyer that specializes in entertainment law (or is at least familiar with it) and get them to create a standard form contract for you. But usually this is the ARTIST's responsibility, since they have the most to gain or lose.

You can also go here -> http://www.creativepro.com/article/the- ... little-guy
They have a link to a contract template created by the American Institute of Graphic Arts.

And here are pointers for freelance artists from Thom Schillinger on CGTalk, a professional designer:

0. Never, EVER, EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER!......EVER! Work without a contract.

1. Charge a late fee that accrues daily. If a client knows that the bill is going to increase every day that they procrastinate they are more likely to pay on time.

2. Include an AT WILL clause in your contract. This will allow you to cancel the contract at any time so you don't have to continue working on the project even though you haven't been paid for completed work. I have cancelled many a contract for late-payment. First time it's a warning, second time work halts until all outstanding balances are paid up, third time; contract cancelled - never do business with that company again, immediately begin collection proceedings on any unpaid balance.

3. Condition all RIGHTS TRANSFERS upon receipt of full payment. This means that even if the client actually has the assets in their possesion they have no legal right to use them for any purpose because you are the legal copyright holder until you explicitly transfer the rights to them.

4. Charge an upfront deposit or withhold the assets until full payment has been made. It's not a good idea to do both of these because then you are asking the client to take all of the risk by paying 100% before recieving anything. This is the opposite of the arrangement whereby many clients take advantage of artists by asking them to produce 100% of the work before being paid anything for it. Ideally the client and contractor should split the risk.

5. Break large bodies of work into smaller sub-jobs and keep your payments small and close together. The limit for small claims is usually around $5,000. Try to keep your individual payments under this amount. That way if you wind up in court it will be easier and less expensive to collect.

6. Keep your eyes open. During the bidding process don't allow yourself to become consumed by the desire to "get the job". Many times there are red-flags which will alert you to a potential client's agenda before becoming involved with them.

7. Play hard ball. Many artists are pushovers because they are acting from a point of desperation. It's hard to maintain a consistent income as a freelance artist, especially in the beginning, but don't let that put you at a disadvantage.

8. Try not to become jaded. A few bad apples can spoil the whole bunch so after dealing with a few bad clients you can find yourself becoming increasingly pessimistic and untrusting of people, even though the majority are actually decent and honest and have no intentions of ripping you off. If you treat everyone like a crook before you even know them you are likely to put a lot of people off who otherwise would have been great clients.

[Auro-Cyanide]

Generally it is best to find a lawyer that specializes in entertainment law (or is at least familiar with it) and get them to create a standard form contract for you. But usually this is the ARTIST's responsibility, since they have the most to gain or lose.

While I agree that artists most definitely put forward a contract to protect the right of their work, the absence of a contract doesn't mean all rights are forgone. Automatic copyright at creation is always in effect UNLESS an artist has agreed by contract otherwise. Certain other rights do need to be outlines in a contract though.

Also, since the OP made absolutely no mention of any commercial selling of said artwork, it should still stand. There was an informal agreement on this forum for artists to do some work and selling was not part of it.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

Generally it is best to find a lawyer that specializes in entertainment law (or is at least familiar with it) and get them to create a standard form contract for you. But usually this is the ARTIST's responsibility, since they have the most to gain or lose.

While I agree that artists most definitely put forward a contract to protect the right of their work, the absence of a contract doesn't mean all rights are forgone. Automatic copyright at creation is always in effect UNLESS an artist has agreed by contract otherwise. Certain other rights do need to be outlines in a contract though.

Also, since the OP made absolutely no mention of any commercial selling of said artwork, it should still stand. There was an informal agreement on this forum for artists to do some work and selling was not part of it.

Oh, I certainly agree. I didn't mean to make it sound like I thought different. No, artists indeed have certain rights over their work the moment it is created. Contract or not, those rights all still stand.

I simply wanted to stress that it should be the artists making these contracts, as they have the most stake in what the terms are. Hence, the artists should be sending newmember contracts for approval or haggling, not the other way around.

The Recruitment board could certainly use a sticky on this subject as it is beneficial for everyone to know. newmember seems eager to learn what the right thing to do is and appears interested in doing it and I applaud him for it. I just don't think enough people think about, or are aware of, these things before posting asking for help or offering their services.

[clannadman]

In retrospect there was no kind of agreement made on how to use them. The artist does have to tell the conditions before the deal is met right. Lordcloudx seems to have agreed to do it as long he/she gets a cut of the profits. Don't know about platonic heart or sapphi though what happens if no kind of agreement was made when the drawing where made and used for profit infact there is still no agreement on the matter.Does anyone know a good site for legal documents on this type of things. I think it would be a good idea for the artists to sign something before they draw.

Regardless of whether an artist forgets to make a contract beforehand, you can't just decide to sell their work as you please.

[Taleweaver]

In retrospect there was no kind of agreement made on how to use them. The artist does have to tell the conditions before the deal is met right.

That's beside the point.

If you were looking for artwork to create a VN and even paid people to have it created, then why the frigging hell is any of that artwork for sale? I believe a recruitment thread named "Looking for artist; want to sell their pics for $$$" would have received an entirely different sort of response from the people here. My first impression was that you were a very enthusiastic newcomer to the world of VNs and very eager to do your first project right. Now my impression is that you are some sort of businessman posing as a newcomer in order to make people work for you.

[clannadman]

In retrospect there was no kind of agreement made on how to use them. The artist does have to tell the conditions before the deal is met right.

That's beside the point.

If you were looking for artwork to create a VN and even paid people to have it created, then why the frigging hell is any of that artwork for sale? I believe a recruitment thread named "Looking for artist; want to sell their pics for $$$" would have received an entirely different sort of response from the people here. My first impression was that you were a very enthusiastic newcomer to the world of VNs and very eager to do your first project right. Now my impression is that you are some sort of businessman posing as a newcomer in order to make people work for you.

Is anybody really that desperate to sell artwork? I agree though. It seems illogical that you would pay people for original artwork for your VN only to then sell it online to any bidders. Maybe you intended to sell it as promotional material? All the same it is not your intellectual property and you have no right to sell it without the consent of the original artists.

[Auro-Cyanide]

Is anybody really that desperate to sell artwork? I agree though. It seems illogical that you would pay people for original artwork for your VN only to then sell it online to any bidders. Maybe you intended to sell it as promotional material? All the same it is not your intellectual property and you have no right to sell it without the consent of the original artists.

They are selling prints of the sprites through DA. They won't sell any though because no one in their right mind is going to pay $20 for a 10x12 print of a sprite. It just won't happen. Still makes it wrong to try, but at least they won't get money from it. They say they want the money for the VN, but I'm not sure what for exactly.