"Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit a

[Ren]

Well, thank you for discounting everything I said.

For all I know, Kinougames isn't one single person. My assumption was that his partners wanted to express their opinion without you discounting them just because they where using the same account. Jake hasn't broken any rule, to the best of my knowledge, and you've ignored anything he's said, too.

IceD: they're trying to get other people involved in this, you can't just ask us to let them be. They're not artists pitching a story or a game, they're trying to get in business with people.
Seriously. I've tried to be as helpful and civil as I could, so forgive me if I get offended by what you said. I do not see how you can defend people who keep offending and insulting users who tried to be helpful. Next time I have some time on my hands I'll avoid listing the bugs in someone's game and writing them down for them. If for you discounting all I say because I ask for more civility is acceptable behaviour, then be it.

I'm glad this thread was for me a Litmus test: I know I am pleased to see users like Kinougames and Fortaat on this forum, who speak up when they think it's important and use their time and knowledge to the advantage of everyone else.

[Topagae]

"Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit..."

[kinougames]

This might be partially true, but do have in mind, that we - youngsters will ALWAYS lack the true experience, because it only comes with a decent ammount of age, which means a lot of time working hard. Your friend understands work greatly, but propably only because he works together, and while he might be understanding everything great, understanding experience and being experienced are two different things.

What is your definition of youngster? If you're old enough to sign a contract, and you're old enough to try to sell people things, you're old enough to get the critique provided here. I'm in the 18-24 age group myself. Am I a youngster, too? I'm really confused here. Should my work suddenly suck as the president of a small company because I am a youngster? Does my 20 year old partner (who is actually very experienced at what she does, and does things I cannot possibly do myself) learn from I who is barely older because my 1-2 years extra gives me some sort of experience?

My god! I'm terrible sorry! *dogeza* it seems I twisted the right word. What I had in mind was "xenophobic", which still isn't propably the best way to describe it. Sorry if I insulted anyone by my post above... I surely shouldn't be taking voice here... my english sometimes falls into the deppest abbysses of ignorance.

If English is not your first language, no worries about the comment. However, xenophobia doesn't come into play, here. We didn't all look at this person, think "NEWCOMER, GET HIM!" and then launch a mass attack. I don't know Jake or fortaat from a rock on the road. My first few responses are all inquiries as someone who was considering the project; things I would've asked any long-time member to answer if they posted the initial feeler. I am a newcomer myself, you can look right at my joining date. And yet, somehow I managed to avoid what happened here to the OP. And that's because I didn't insult everyone at the slightest dislike/inquiry.

For all I know, Kinougames isn't one single person. My assumption was that his partners wanted to express their opinion without you discounting them just because they where using the same account.

You're right, "kinougames" isn't just a single person. There are 4 of us total at the moment, and we're getting ready to include a fifth. It's been a habit to say "we" when referring to our project as a whole, and "I" when it is an individual speaking in critique threads.

[Topagae]

"Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit..."

[Spiky Caterpillar]

A quick review, since someone was recommending I submit my projects to you:

- .doc is mildly annoying. Yes, it's shallow of me, and I know it's ubiquitous in business, but you're dealing with writer-programmer-artists here, a significant fraction of whom are either hardcore geeks or in countries with horrible exchange rates, not bizmen.

- Your revenue model is unclear. 50% of GROSS revenue from pay-to-play token sales is probably worth my while (assuming that the engine works as advertised when it's finished). 50% of gross revenue from advertising is probably not worth the trouble. 50% of PROFITS requires that I see a breakdown of what expenses will be deducted before profit calculation, and that that breakdown be hardcoded into the contract, along with terms to determine how compliance will be audited.

- Irrevocable licenses make me nervous. A good contract should have a clean way for either party to back out with a minimum of harm to both parties in the event that it's not working out, or that the other party's conduct becomes unacceptable. Getting a twenty thousand dollar advance and then finding one of my games used as a directrdr/mfeed dropper would not be worth it! (And since duelling is illegal in San Francisco, I wouldn't even have any recourse to salvage my reputation if such a thing happened.)

- Your sample game (the magic academy one) gave me blank windows in both Konqueror 4.4.4 and Iceweasel (Firefox) 3.5.10 (Debian testing, amd64, GNU flash player installed in Iceweasel, Flash disabled in Konqueror.). Konqueror doesn't surprise me, but failing to support recent Firefoxes does.

[Topagae]

"Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit..."

[Jake]

Konqueror doesn't surprise me, but failing to support recent Firefoxes does.

I saw a blank window in Firefox on the Mac, as well, as it goes; just not on PC.

3. What MAKES us nervous is spending lots and lots of time to port something, then immediately not being able to ever use it again at a whim, because we don't have ANY rights to it.

So put a clause in the contract that stipulates penalties if the other party backs out.

Example: I have a mortgage, and my bank offers the mortgage to me at a certain rate that assumes I'll pay it back over the course of 25 years, accruing interest on the outstanding debt over that whole time period. So if I pay it all back today, the bank doesn't get as much interest as they expected they would, so they'd be out of pocket, right? So to deal with this, the bank puts a clause in the contract which says I pay a penalty of so-much if I repay early. It's still advantageous to me, because the total debt + early repayment penalty is less than the total repayment over 25 years, and it's better for the bank, because they didn't go to all the hassle of setting up the mortgage and they get a bit of extra cash to go towards their long-term profit projections.

What's a directdr/mfeed dropper?

The short version is 'malware'. Under the license you first posted, at least (haven't had time to read the new one) there'd be nothing stopping you from using submitted games to distribute malware.

I mean, I'm sure it probably wouldn't even occur to you, but that's kind of irrelevant - if you get bought out or go out of business and the licenses end up in the hands of someone else, what you would or wouldn't do makes no difference.

[Topagae]

"Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit..."

[Jake]

If you're white-screening it's probably because you're not supposed to be seeing that game as we've adjusted permissions.

As it goes: for me, it was happening well before you said you were going to adjust permissions.

[Topagae]

"Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit..."

[PyTom]

Although it's probably too late to be useful, I'm also going to put this thread under the 6-hours-between-posts restriction described here:

http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 11#p104011