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LateWhiteRabbit wrote:I find it most sad because apparently Mickey Mouse really does have nothing to do with the rest of the game, but Nanashi for some silly reason included the mouse anyway and brought all this on himself. Just like Burger King can't have Ronald McDonald suddenly appear on screen and wink, you can't just throw Mickey Mouse in your game ("Hi! I'm Mickey!") and then behead him.

You can if it's a parody.

sued... I'm speechless...
Is it ACTA ?! O_o it passed, didn't it?
Well, I was actually surprised that he actually "stole" an actual disney recording... :-•

AxemRed wrote:

LateWhiteRabbit wrote:I find it most sad because apparently Mickey Mouse really does have nothing to do with the rest of the game, but Nanashi for some silly reason included the mouse anyway and brought all this on himself. Just like Burger King can't have Ronald McDonald suddenly appear on screen and wink, you can't just throw Mickey Mouse in your game ("Hi! I'm Mickey!") and then behead him.

You can if it's a parody.

And well, you get sued by Disney as the result... it HAVE BEEN PROOFED!!!

Parody or not, ripping copyrighted asset for a free game is illegal enough, let alone for a commercial game.

Still, I don't really like Disney for this...

Samu-kun wrote: So if the text in the message box reads
"A wild Micky Mouse has appeared! Micky Mouse uses copyright infringement lawsuit against you! It's super effective!"

This reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYcaxm8IugI

LateWhiteRabbit wrote: HAHAHA! Disney is the last company you want to screw around with. They've sued daycare centers for painting their characters on the wall! They've sued merchants for putting their characters on T-shirts without permission, they've even sued the Academy of Motion Arts and Sciences for using Snow White without permission.

And Snow White fairy tail used to be under public domain, before Disney trademarked it...

leon wrote:

LateWhiteRabbit wrote: HAHAHA! Disney is the last company you want to screw around with. They've sued daycare centers for painting their characters on the wall! They've sued merchants for putting their characters on T-shirts without permission, they've even sued the Academy of Motion Arts and Sciences for using Snow White without permission.

And Snow White fairy tail used to be under public domain, before Disney trademarked it...

I don't think the fairy tale itself has been copyrighted, as much as that particular version, i.e., the movie Snow White. Kind of how a song itself can be in the public domain, but that doesn't mean you can use any and every recording of it.

AxemRed wrote:

LateWhiteRabbit wrote:I find it most sad because apparently Mickey Mouse really does have nothing to do with the rest of the game, but Nanashi for some silly reason included the mouse anyway and brought all this on himself. Just like Burger King can't have Ronald McDonald suddenly appear on screen and wink, you can't just throw Mickey Mouse in your game ("Hi! I'm Mickey!") and then behead him.

You can if it's a parody.

Nanashi's use doesn't seem to qualify as a parody under the law. There are actually pretty strict guidelines that must be followed in parody works. Again, for Fair Use to apply (which is what rules a parody must operate under) a work must be commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving or scholarship.

I don't see how Nanashi's use qualifies under those rules. Also, it should be worth pointing out that Fair Use can only be used in America. As a Japanese citizen, Nanashi doesn't have access to the same protections or rights of use to parody that an American might have with Disney. I'm sure Japan has it's own laws on the subject, but Disney is an American company.

Everyone always wants to claim "parody" but your work must contain meaningful commentary, or in-depth criticism of what you are parodying to qualify. It should be pointed out that shows like Robot Chicken that "parody" lots of IPs usually gets permission from the IP holders like George Lucas before proceeding. They aren't just making Star Wars sketches and comedy shows and claiming Fair Use.

leon wrote: This reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYcaxm8IugI

See, THAT qualifies as parody, as it is making a significant statement on Mickey Mouse, is a detailed criticism, and is being used for teaching.

leon wrote: And Snow White fairy tail used to be under public domain, before Disney trademarked it...

Snow White the fairytale is still under public domain. The only thing Disney has trademarked is their version of it. You could make your own Snow White movie tomorrow if you wanted to, but what you COULD NOT do is copy any of Disney's Snow White character designs - i.e. you couldn't name your dwarves Dopey or Sleepy, etc. In fact, two new Snow White movies from different companies are coming out this year.

Once something is in the public domain, it stays there. What happens is that companies, artists, or authors get copyright on their own specific versions they created based off that source material. IPs like Alice in Wonderland are in the public domain and have hundreds of works based off those original books, and anyone can make an Alice in Wonderland game, book, movie, or story. But everyone MUST go back to the original books for their own work, because the derivative works (like Disney's Alice movies) are owned and copyrighted by the respective companies or authors that made them.

Mink wrote: I don't think the fairy tale itself has been copyrighted, as much as that particular version, i.e., the movie Snow White. Kind of how a song itself can be in the public domain, but that doesn't mean you can use any and every recording of it.

Exactly.


Once again, fan games are illegal. Free or not, it doesn't matter. Don't use someone else's IP. Maybe your use will qualify as parody, maybe it doesn't, but you will likely have to go to court to prove it one way or the other. The big companies that do parodies often have a team of lawyers covering their butts when they make parodies. I doubt you as an indie game maker can afford an army of lawyers to double check behind you. So just don't do it.

... Disney, I love your movies, but as a company... not so much.

Yes, technically speaking fangames ARE illegal (even if the creator's give the go ahead sometimes, since the company might not like it). But this is a bit much, they could have just put out a cease and desist, maybe a fine, but THIS? This is way too much. o_0 It's like a corporate hissy fit.

And no, this did not seem to fit the definition of a parody, it was more like... a very violent shout out.

BUT, there have been parodies made, in the US and out, without the consent of the original creators. For example, Barry Trotter is a legitimately published parody series of Harry Potter, written and published COMPLETELY without Rowling's consent. It even says it is unauthorized itself. And there are many Twilight parodies that do not have Meyer's ok (and I doubt she ever would give it actually). To take from your example, if Robot Chicken had to go and get the ok from EVERYTHING they parody, they would need to be in touch with Japan a lot, since they have made parodies with many anime including Sailor Moon, and they parody many children's series in a very adult light that, most likely, would not have creator consent if they knew beforehand.

So making a parody, technically, does not mean you need the express consent of the company or creator. But it DOES mean you have to fall under the definition of a parody. For example, the Family Guy Episode "Road to the Multiverse" features a Disney segment that starts out seeming to sing the praises of the company... then manages a jab at the Walt Disney's alleged antisemitism at the very end of the sequence, which lets it fall under the "criticism" umbrella. (Example chosen for the obvious reason).

So, you're completely right about everything except that one bit. If everyone who parodied something always had to go and get the ok from the creators and companies, most would probably not even exist.

Keep in mind, even if you're a legit parody it doesn't mean someone can't sue you. Whether or not they win is one thing, but they can still do it.

Also, this reminds me of the thing that happened with Barbie Girl.

Edit: Annnd I just realized I said more or less the same thing as LateWhiteRabbit. It's true, though; with companies like Disney or Mattel, it'd probably be more trouble than it's worth to parody something of theirs, even if you're in the legal right. :/

Quite a lot of parodies do get permission.

Others still have to deal with lawsuits - they may win in the end but that doesn't mean they never get sued. Family Guy does get sued!

Yes, this is VERY much true. I believe even ones that are authorized have been sued in the past as well, though off the top of my head I can't name one.

Bane Reiko wrote:Yes, this is VERY much true. I believe even ones that are authorized have been sued in the past as well, though off the top of my head I can't name one.

Lot's of parodies get sued. Like Mink mentioned, Aqua was sued over their song Barbie Girl by Mattel. It was ruled a legitimate parody, but it goes to show that if you use someone else's creative property, you can and will get sued. The court may decide in your favor at the end, but you'll still likely be out court fees and cost. So even if you follow all the rules and guidelines for parody, you can still get sued. The impetus is on you to prove your parody is legitimate, and that proof may have to be delivered in court.

I don't hold ill will against Disney for any of this, and I feel it is disingenuous to do so just because they are a large corporation. We want to favor the underdog, but we would all be offended if someone used our characters without our permission. Especially if someone grabbed one of your characters just to behead them on screen. Just because Disney is big shouldn't make them fair game for people grabbing their stuff left and right. Mickey Mouse is one of their original creations, not based off anything else, and the face of their company created by their founder himself nearly 80 years ago.

The amount of damages is seen as excessive, and it is, but it is likely just being used as a scare tactic and warning to other doujin and fan game makers. Nanashi probably won't have to pay that full amount or even most of it. It all depends on what the courts decide or if a settlement can be reached.

Just say 'no' to fan games and works. It isn't worth the headache or trouble, is officially illegal, and you can never make money or have a famous game of your own if you are leeching off someone else's creative work.

LateWhiteRabbit wrote:Mickey Mouse is one of their original creations, not based off anything else, and the face of their company created by their founder himself nearly 80 years ago.

It's kind of besides the point, but actually...

The majority rights to the character are currently held by The Walt Disney Company...

Besides, Mickey Epic is exactly about this - Mickey meeting Oswald, and Oswald being really pissed for his place in the spotlight stolen by the Mouse...

LateWhiteRabbit wrote:Just say 'no' to fan games and works. It isn't worth the headache or trouble, is officially illegal, and you can never make money or have a famous game of your own if you are leeching off someone else's creative work.

Can't agree 100% with this. Remember Black Rock Shooter? It's one of my most favorite.

^I imagine that's more the exception than the rule.