Footsteps of the Deceiver - Prologue [BxG], [Fantasy], [RPG]

[Eiliya]

First of all, let me apologize if the title might be strange. I don't quite understand what to enter in those [] that everyone seem to be using, so I just went for what I thought would be appropriate.

Let's proceed to the real business, then. In the "How to" thread, they said you should start by providing the community with some details regarding the project. I'll start by saying that this is my own project, I have no real team (my room-mate helps me write, but that's about it). All the graphics have been commissioned and most of the coding thus far have been imported from pre-made scripts.

The Setting: Footsteps of the Deceiver takes place in a high-fantasy world where technology has proceeded somewhat further than what might be considdered normal for the genre. There are steam-driven trains, a few cars fueled by magic crystals and the all-too familliar magically airborn ships and boats. There are also streetlamps in the bigger cities and a sort of magically supported network that imitates what we know as long-distance conversation (cellphone crystals, basically). The world is split into four diffrent dimentions; the normal world, the spirit world, heaven and hell. The normal world and the spirit world exist alongside one another, but are unable to interfere and interact with each other. Heaven is the place where the divine power used by clerics, priests, paladins and the like originate from. It's filled with light and harmonious music, inhabited by righteous angels and other servants of the gods as well as the gods themselves. Hell is the exact opposite, a world full of pain and suffering, where the screams of tortured souls ring out across the barren wastes and fire rains from shattered skies. Demons, devils and evil gods dwell there.

Theodore du vile Starblight is the main character, a 22 years old male human wanted for mass-murder, herecy and high treason. Crimes he did not commit, at least not according to his own beliefs. He is arrogant, childish, egoistic and sexistic, yet at the same time carries a twisted sense of justice and righteousness. Demonic blood flows through his veins, but at this very moment, even Theo remains unaware of this fact.

Emelie Dragonmount is an 18 years old female human who works as a maid in her parents Tavern & Inn. She is naive, inquisitive and innocent, spending most of her time either daydreaming of noble princes and gallant heroes or trying to converse with the small spirits that only she seems to know about. Her greatest wish is to explore the world, but ever since Boghub, a violent half-orc barbarian, made the town his home she's been to afraid to leave the establishment.

As if Boghub wasn't enough, Emelie's town has been plagued by another, more subtle evil for the last couple of years, a female human vampire by the name of Mirela Rotaru. Due to her rebelleous nature, Mirela was exiled from her clan some ten years ago, and has since settled down at her current haven. Her presense in the village has fractured many long-term relationships and is also the reason behind the resent wave of anemia that's struck the village.

Wizmah and Xa'thuna are a pair of intelligent gloves that Theo is rewarded after helping an old necromancer punish a thieving apprentice. As the story progresses, it becomes apparent that they are actually real souls that have been trapped in the gloves, and a quest to retake their true bodies begins.

Cazuriel the Crimson Flame is an elven high paladin in the service of Relim, the god of Light. She leads a small group of elite crusaders and stands at the top of the structure that oversees the hunt for heretics and evil-doers. Ever since a tragic event 5 years ago, where an entire temple-village was brutally slaughtered, her mind has been set on one thing only; find and destroy the source behind it, the child of evil - Theodore du vile Starblight.

The Plot: The first game is simply an introduction. It gives a simple background, explaining how a peaceful world was introduced to religion and torn apart because of different beliefs. It also explains how a monstrous child slew the monastery that took him in after a personal tragedy and also how he killed everyone in the town where the temple was located. Once the backstory is done, we get to follow this child, now an adult, as he tries to survive in a world where religion makes justice and the non-believers are branded as heretics to be purged. I'm not sure how much of the plot I should actually reveal, seing as it would spoil the story, but for the first game, there's really nothing more than an introduction to the main characters and some exploration of the world.

character concepts

sample backgrounds

main menu

battlecap

eventcap

screencap

What do I want from this thread? Well, first of all, I want to use this to report my progress, both for myself and for any who might be interested. Secondly, I wish to use this thread to request aid in development (specifically when it comes to coding) and also to recieve constructive criticism. This is my first time trying something like this, so please have that in mind when commenting. Lastly, I guess I would want to use this thread as a reference for when/if I build up the courage to ask for people to join a team or something with me.

The final part of the "How to" thread mentions that I should be the one to start up the discussion, so I will do my best to do that.

As I am sure you have all noticed by now, this game is called Footsteps of the Deceiver - Prologue. This, naturally means that there are more games to come. When it comes to actual playtime, I assume that my game will be fairly short. It's just the opening act for an advancing story, after all. Even so, I have been trying to get this game going for many years now, slowly but surely saving up money to afford the art that I'm going to need for this game. That's the main reason I decided to split it like this - I simply don't imagine myself being able to finance it if I were to put everything into one game. Now here's my question; Is this a bad thing? The fact that I plan to cut the story into smaller pieces and release them as separate games that tell the story only if you play all of them? If so, does anyone know if it's possible to find a sponsor or something on the net? I heard something about some site where people can market their ideas and generous people who find the idea interesting could then donate to the project, but I have no idea what it is or how it works...

Also, originally, this game was intended to be adult in nature, with quite a lot of erotic scenes in it, but not a single one of them is actually nessecary for the story of the game to progress. As such, I decided to remove them. The problem is that I have already commissioned quite alot of the art needed for those scenes, and it feels like a big waste if I just throw it away without using it. Thus, I was thinking that maybe I could release two versions of the game, one with and one without the erotic material. Or maybe give the game an option to turn the scenes on/off or skip them. What are your opinions on this? Should I do something with the images I have bought? If so, which version would you suggest me to go for?

Thanks for your time and I hope to see some good, constructive feedback from the community.

[Eiliya]

Post for Updates
Art Update
Backgrounds: 18/102 (34 different images, each with day, evening and night versions)
Dungeons: 0/42 (7 dungeons, each requiring 6 different building blocks)
Normal Sprites: 4/26 (poses/costumes not added to the calculation yet)
Combat Sprites: 0/22
Events: 1/29
Adult: 6/9 (added just in case)
Others: 1/?? (except for the cover art that's used for the main menu, I don't know what more might be needed in this category, which makes it hard to calculate)

Audio Update
SFX: 0/?? (i have no idea what sfx might be needed in the game, so I can't calculate this yet)
Music: 8/20 (only character themes, combat themes, dungeon themes and a few general themes so far, more will be added)
Voice: 0/9 (added just in case)

Video Update: I plan to add an opening video to the game, but that's still far, far into the future.

Coding Update
Battles, Experience and similar RPG'ish coding: This is far from done. As of now, I'm using Jake's Battle Engine to fill the code, but I hope to either buy a licence from him or maybe commission someone to construct a personal system for me (I am trying to learn on my own, as well).
Dungeons: I'm using Nekotrap's dungeon crawler framework and have managed to construct the layout of my dungeons. There are still alot of other code that has to be input, though, biggest one atm is pre-set events taking place when the player enters specific tiles on the map.

Scripting Update: A scenario skeleton has been put into the game, and flesh has been added from the start of the game and all the way to the fourth dungeon. The actual writer has started to polish my rough drafts into real scripts, but hasn't gotten further than the opening yet. Alot more to do here.

I think that's it for now, when updates take place, I will let you know.

[SundownKid]

That is some pretty impressive commissioned art, this seems like it has potential.

The plot seems solid, however, one thing that I would caution you on is the main character Theo. Currently, despite the fact that the world is a crapsack one, he seems to have not many redeeming qualities to him. Mass murder for revenge is still murder even if he does have demon's blood. If you want to make an interesting story, you will have to give Theo some heroic qualities despite his demonic nature. I know Deponia tried to take the route of the sexist, "evil" main character for humor/shock value and got panned for it. If he's going to be sexist, he has to have some heel face turn later on that shows he's really a jerk and develops his personality. If you're going to give him a backstory of killing innocent people then there had better be a good reason the player wants to pick up the game and follow his story.

What do I want from this thread? Well, first of all, I want to use this to report my progress, both for myself and for any who might be interested. Secondly, I wish to use this thread to request aid in development (specifically when it comes to coding) and also to recieve constructive criticism. This is my first time trying something like this, so please have that in mind when commenting. Lastly, I guess I would want to use this thread as a reference for when/if I build up the courage to ask for people to join a team or something with me.

I see that you don't have a UI done yet - if you're interested, you can check my portfolio, I do UI's and UI programming on commission. In fact, I just made a medieval-style UI for someone else.

As I am sure you have all noticed by now, this game is called Footsteps of the Deceiver - Prologue. This, naturally means that there are more games to come. When it comes to actual playtime, I assume that my game will be fairly short. It's just the opening act for an advancing story, after all. Even so, I have been trying to get this game going for many years now, slowly but surely saving up money to afford the art that I'm going to need for this game. That's the main reason I decided to split it like this - I simply don't imagine myself being able to finance it if I were to put everything into one game. Now here's my question; Is this a bad thing? The fact that I plan to cut the story into smaller pieces and release them as separate games that tell the story only if you play all of them? If so, does anyone know if it's possible to find a sponsor or something on the net? I heard something about some site where people can market their ideas and generous people who find the idea interesting could then donate to the project, but I have no idea what it is or how it works...

It's a good idea to start small especially if you've never made a game or VN before. It's best to release one or two games before trying your hand at Kickstarter, anyway, so you can get constructive criticism and hone your game making skills. People will be less likely to back you on Kickstarter if you have nothing under your belt.

Even if you do have an over arching story planned, it's best to split your story into self-contained stories rather than using "To be continued..." This is because if you run into problems or have other ideas, your games can at least stand on their own. Your first game should be a story within itself with a goal, and a solid conclusion.

Also, originally, this game was intended to be adult in nature, with quite a lot of erotic scenes in it, but not a single one of them is actually nessecary for the story of the game to progress. As such, I decided to remove them. The problem is that I have already commissioned quite alot of the art needed for those scenes, and it feels like a big waste if I just throw it away without using it. Thus, I was thinking that maybe I could release two versions of the game, one with and one without the erotic material. Or maybe give the game an option to turn the scenes on/off or skip them. What are your opinions on this? Should I do something with the images I have bought? If so, which version would you suggest me to go for?

There is nothing wrong with making an adult and non-adult version. Having 2 versions is probably better if you ever find yourself wanting to put it on websites that don't allow adult content. But you can always allow the player to turn it on or off in the default version.

[Eiliya]

That is some pretty impressive commissioned art, this seems like it has potential.

Well, it's from a chinese artstudio called Thunderbird or something like that. I met one of them while I studied in Japan a few years back, and have been commissioning art from them ever since. Since they're the only ones I have ever actually commissioned from, I don't know if they are pricey or not, but each piece costs be somewhere in the region of 125 USD. I'm more than satisfied with the result and if I had the economy, I would gladly pay more for it.

The plot seems solid, however, one thing that I would caution you on is the main character Theo.

I enjoy your feedback here, but you have to keep in mind that what I have written in the original post is simply flavor text. Of course there is a reason why Theo killed the people in that village, they were hardly innocents. The event was called a heretic mass-murder simply because the religious rulers wield more power and influence over the masses than the person who is accused of the "crime". As for redeeming features, this game was originally intended to be one where you play an evil character. Of course he has good features, but they are good from an evil point of view. He does not hesitate to kill people, but so long as he can help it he will never let his battles affect those who are not involved in the matter. He thinks males are superior to females, but unless he thinks they deserve it, he will never look down on or treat them badly. He lies through his teeth, but he never goes back on a promise. The only pure bad thing that have no real redeeming feature would be his pride and arrogance, I guess. A lot of these will not be present in the first game, though, since it's just the prologue.

I do UI's and UI programming on commission.

This would be wonderful. I've been wrecking my mind trying to figure out how to deal with this T_T
I will contact you about this at a later moment, if that is alright with you.

It's a good idea to start small especially if you've never made a game or VN before. It's best to release one or two games before trying your hand at Kickstarter, anyway, so you can get constructive criticism and hone your game making skills. People will be less likely to back you on Kickstarter if you have nothing under your belt.

Still, if I am to use the same artist for my game as I have done thus far, completing it without sponsirship would take me years in my current situation. I do have a second game that is much, much smaller that I've been working on, but it's a pure hentai game, so I'm not sure if I should post anything about it here. I have considdered finishing that first though. Maybe I should?

Even if you do have an over arching story planned, it's best to split your story into self-contained stories rather than using "To be continued..."

This, I am fully aware of. I've read quite a few mangas that seem to have stopped in the middle, as well as watched quite alot of anime that have done the same. Nothing is more annoying for the player/watcher/reader than when the story stops midway. Still, I see no real way to add a working end in this prologue without either progressing the game quite a bit further or making the first game even shorter than it already is. I will probably do one of these two though, I just need to weigh the options against each other for a while.

There is nothing wrong with making an adult and non-adult version. Having 2 versions is probably better if you ever find yourself wanting to put it on websites that don't allow adult content. But you can always allow the player to turn it on or off in the default version.

As far as I've understood, there are quite a lot of other erotic VNs that have done this. Fate Stay Night, Men at Work and Aselia the Eternal being a few fairly famous examples. In regards to this though, even if I make it into two versions I should always tell people that there will be an adult version of the game, right? In casesomeone doesn't want their art/music/whatever associated with it?

Also, I updated the original post (adding a name) and the Update post. If something feels strange about the update post, feel free to let me know and I'll see if I can add/remove/correct whatever it is that seems strange

[SundownKid]

Professional wise, that doesn't seem overly high. Of course, you can definitely find artists who charge lower. I would shop around, considering your budget, and get price estimates from a number of artists.

However, as you list it, 26 characters seems pretty high for your first game, and a prologue no less. You can probably cut that in half and still come out with an interesting full-length game. Same with the BG's, which would probably help considering your budget.

Still, if I am to use the same artist for my game as I have done thus far, completing it without sponsirship would take me years in my current situation. I do have a second game that is much, much smaller that I've been working on, but it's a pure hentai game, so I'm not sure if I should post anything about it here. I have considdered finishing that first though. Maybe I should?

You should consider that it would be hard to use a hentai game to market a non-hentai game. There is a hentai section in the forum but it's separate from the rest, and many people might not want to download such a thing even if they would be interested in getting this game.

Still, it might be good practice as far as game creation is concerned, so you might want to consider finishing it first.

I enjoy your feedback here, but you have to keep in mind that what I have written in the original post is simply flavor text. Of course there is a reason why Theo killed the people in that village, they were hardly innocents. The event was called a heretic mass-murder simply because the religious rulers wield more power and influence over the masses than the person who is accused of the "crime". As for redeeming features, this game was originally intended to be one where you play an evil character. Of course he has good features, but they are good from an evil point of view. He does not hesitate to kill people, but so long as he can help it he will never let his battles affect those who are not involved in the matter. He thinks males are superior to females, but unless he thinks they deserve it, he will never look down on or treat them badly. He lies through his teeth, but he never goes back on a promise. The only pure bad thing that have no real redeeming feature would be his pride and arrogance, I guess. A lot of these will not be present in the first game, though, since it's just the prologue.

Yeah, I suppose I misinterpreted it - though the description could be modified a little to make that more clear. "At least according to his own beliefs" seem to indicate that they were innocent in terms of most people's beliefs, but he thought differently. You could probably change it to: "wanted for mass-murder, herecy and high treason, though he maintains that these claims are greatly exaggerated." or "that his enemies were anything but innocent."

Still, the sexist part is hard to justify if he is continually like that throughout the story. After all, a large part of the VN audience are girls and they won't want to play as a jerk especially when there is no female MC, nor is it great marketing if you put it in his description. If he doesn't look down upon women, then don't put it in in the first place. If he does, then there should be some character development that will cause him to change his views.

[DaFool]

Whoa, it's like I found a kindred spirit or something. Glad to have stumbled upon this thread, I usually don't read WIPs anymore.

Like you, I'm also working on an ambitious VN/RPG using commissioned art and Jake's battle engine. It seems from the screenshots that it's going to be straight turn-based and dungeon-crawling, so you wouldn't have my dilemma with isometric (thinking of switching to Unity just for smoother character animations, but that would be a severe waste of effort already spent).

I've contributed to almost 20 projects (although I am only most associated with the hentai ones since its a much smaller pool) and something of this magnitude is something I am struggling with. I assume all the more so if this is your first or second project.

I couldn't honestly say "start small with free off-shelf assets" -- while that worked years ago, today we have professional artists releasing full-length works as part of Nanoreno.

At the same time, most of the audience here are now teen to early twenties girls interested only in colorful otoge. As far as looking for an actual audience, even if you outdo every single game here in terms of pretty art, you are probably going to be pretty screwed. Games with manga art does have the weird reputation of being both "dumb girl games" and "porn for men". That is why my main commercial project has more western style artwork. My manga-style games are mainly just for my own enjoyment.

Sorry, I haven't been constructive much, anyways, some suggestions maybe --

1.) Don't call the game 'Prologue' or 'Chapter 1'. That turns off people wanting to invest in your game world. Put a ~ or colon and a second descriptor after the title so people will know it's a bigger franchise, but only one self-contained game. For example: Need for Speed: Rivals, Killzone: Shadowfall, Final Fantasy: Type 0
2.) The prices you're paying now is pretty much standard rates and reasonable. Is the same studio the one doing the erotic artwork?
3.) I echo Sundownkid regarding an erotic work will not do much in spreading your cred as a developer. This is from experience. In fact one of the main forces spreading the scene today, VNs Now! specifically does not mention erotic work, even though it reviews demos and kickstarted preview projects. So if you want to finish your smaller ero project work, it is mainly to get that out of the system -- for yourself mainly. The experience will be worth it.
4.) Also second the UI, but it seems you're already working that out. If you're using Jakes and nyaatrap's engines already I think you're already pretty competent enough with Ren'Py.

I cannot reiterate enough how much you should expect your audience to be much smaller even with the size of this community now. I had worked with a group that has dropped all plans for 18+ and is going full-on with otome since the financial calculations pointed to that. This project is your baby though so you should stick with it but expect to do major, major cost-cutting since there will not be a return on investment (unless you go otome).

[Eiliya]

Da Fool: Whoa, it's like I found a kindred spirit or something. Glad to have stumbled upon this thread, I usually don't read WIPs anymore.

Thanks man (or gal), that warms. I'm glad you like it, those words motivate me to march on through this apparent bogland of otome games.

SundownKid: However, as you list it, 26 characters seems pretty high for your first game, and a prologue no less. You can probably cut that in half and still come out with an interesting full-length game. Same with the BG's, which would probably help considering your budget. Da Fool: Like you, I'm also working on an ambitious VN/RPG using commissioned art and Jake's battle engine. I've contributed to almost 20 projects and something of this magnitude is something I am struggling with. I assume all the more so if this is your first or second project.

I guess I am biting too much, but still, I don't expect the actual story progression in my game to last more than, I dunno, maybe 8 hours or so? At the moment, I think my greatest hurdle is the fact that I want so much in my game. As has been mentioned, I have 26 characters. Most of these are nameless npcs that the player speaks two once or maybe twice throught the entire game, which I guess I could just remove. Same goes for a lot of the backgrounds. I'll look over my lists again and see what I can carve off from my original idea.

SundownKid: Still, it might be good practice as far as game creation is concerned, so you might want to consider finishing it first. Da Fool: I echo Sundownkid regarding an erotic work will not do much in spreading your cred as a developer. So if you want to finish your smaller ero project work, it is mainly to get that out of the system -- for yourself mainly. The experience will be worth it.

Hm, well, that specific project would probably be just that, for my own experience when it comes to developing. Also, having a completed project, even if it's just small and adult-rated, can't be a bad thing right? It shows that you are willing to actually complete what projects you begin. At least I think so.

SundownKid: After all, a large part of the VN audience are girls and they won't want to play as a jerk especially when there is no female MC, nor is it great marketing if you put it in his description. Da Fool: At the same time, most of the audience here are now teen to early twenties girls interested only in colorful otoge. This project is your baby though so you should stick with it but expect to do major, major cost-cutting since there will not be a return on investment (unless you go otome).

Seriously? Has the VN community changed that much since I started playing? Or is it just the community here at Lemma Soft? Otome, huh... I couldn't do that even if I wanted. First of all, I couldn't get my mind into motivation over a game aimed at girls, I wouldn't even know how to write the story T_T True, I'm sure my writer would be able to make the drafts I make attractive to female players, but I wouldn't know how to construct the story. Also, I have this (faulty, I'm sure) concept that otome stories should be full of girly drama and love-triangles. I'm not all that good when it comes to romance, 'specially girly, dramatic love-triange romance. Maybe I should try my hand at something else instead, then, like professional soduku solving or something T_T

Da Fool: Games with manga art does have the weird reputation of being both "dumb girl games" and "porn for men". That is why my main commercial project has more western style artwork. My manga-style games are mainly just for my own enjoyment.

Herrm... These images are actually more on the western style of my chart than on the eastern anime/manga style -.-;; I would much prefer the anime/manga style, mainly because I simply think it looks better. Most of the western styles I've seen stay either too close to realistic for my tastes or is just weird (simpsons, southpark, spongebob, and so on) and ugly, in my opinion. I admit, I have seen a few that I enjoyed, but they were mostly some kind of mix between the two styles. I guess I, sort of, can see where the reputations come from, and when it all comes down, my main goal was to make one of them "porn for men" games, just with some well worked story in it.

Da Fool: Name of the game, price for art, same group for the erotic art? Competence using Ren'Py.

Sorry if I didn't quote word-for-word here, I got lazy at the end. Yeah, I have considdered changing the name of the game. The - Prologue part of the name was a spur-of-the-moment thing I added while making my original post. I intend to change it using a ~*text*~ figuration, I just don't know to what yet. As for the price, which has also been mentioned from SundownKid in an earlier post, I am more than satisfied with the price I am getting the art for, I was just wondering if I should offer to pay a little extra for it, considdering the quality. Sadly, with my current budget, I don't think I could afford to, even though I want to. As for the erotic art, yes and no. I tried to order some from them, which they did for me, but in all honesty, their scenes and characters are way better than their events (erotic or not). I'm actually considdering using the concept arts I have bought from them for extra material in the future and seing if I can maybe find a cheaper artist who might be willing to either work together with me on this for free or maybe for bundle commissions. I haven't made any decisions yet, though, and I'll need to conference with my writer as well. As for my competence at Ren'Py based on Nyaatrap's and Jake's premade content, I'm still learning how the code work, it's not like I could replicate it or anything >_<; I don't think my competence is much to cheer at, at least not yet. I am trying to learn though

In case a new question should be rissen, I do have one, actually. I have trouble figuring out what art I need for my game and as might have been obvious, I tend to go overboard when it comes to me being insecure. I'd rather have too much and not need it than need it and not have it. On this point, I think I need some professional counselling. I'm considdering writing a quick and simple summary of the flow of the game, from start to end, and then asking what art people would suggest I try to implement in the game. Do you guys think this would be a good or bad idea?

[SundownKid]

At the same time, most of the audience here are now teen to early twenties girls interested only in colorful otoge. As far as looking for an actual audience, even if you outdo every single game here in terms of pretty art, you are probably going to be pretty screwed. Games with manga art does have the weird reputation of being both "dumb girl games" and "porn for men". That is why my main commercial project has more western style artwork. My manga-style games are mainly just for my own enjoyment.

I find that kind of hard to believe - anime and manga still have a pretty big audience though they may not be active in these forums specifically or in the indie game development scene. It's really more about how it is marketed than the artstyle.

Although having cliched manga art can of course pigeonhole your game, I wouldn't call the art shown here that typical.

I cannot reiterate enough how much you should expect your audience to be much smaller even with the size of this community now. I had worked with a group that has dropped all plans for 18+ and is going full-on with otome since the financial calculations pointed to that. This project is your baby though so you should stick with it but expect to do major, major cost-cutting since there will not be a return on investment (unless you go otome).

The fact that it's a hybrid RPG might increase the potential audience outside of that of a typical visual novel (which do have a lot of otome fans). If you market it as a game as well, you will be able to get the gaming audience. The downside of that is that you'll have to focus on getting the game part down because that will be one of your main selling points.

Personally I am planning on giving my games an adventure game focus and marketing it towards fans of adventure games. I find making an RPG to be a whole new challenge in itself.

As has been mentioned, I have 26 characters. Most of these are nameless npcs that the player speaks two once or maybe twice throught the entire game, which I guess I could just remove. Same goes for a lot of the backgrounds. I'll look over my lists again and see what I can carve off from my original idea.

I think having nameless NPCs is fine. But having most of them be NPCs might be slight overkill, it really depends how many full characters you have.

[DaFool]

That is manga artwork though (realistic style around 80s and later... see Lodoss). Western artwork is what's found in point and click adventure and hidden object games.

As for the erotic art, yes and no. I tried to order some from them, which they did for me, but in all honesty, their scenes and characters are way better than their events (erotic or not).

Maybe the events are delegated to their 'B' artists, keeping their 'A' artists for the main designs.

I'm actually considdering using the concept arts I have bought from them for extra material in the future and seing if I can maybe find a cheaper artist who might be willing to either work together with me on this for free or maybe for bundle commissions.

Tricky, but that's how I would go about it. In my case I commissioned concept art with front, back, side, and 3/4 views of the body and at least 6 facial expressions. If the designs are simple enough I'm able to fill in any missing drawings by tracing (since I paid for the designs, and the original artist is credited as the main designer)

I'm considering writing a quick and simple summary of the flow of the game, from start to end, and then asking what art people would suggest I try to implement in the game. Do you guys think this would be a good or bad idea?

Nothing is set in stone though. While a complete script -> limited asset count would be ideal, I'm finding that most creative work nowadays is iterative, with scenes chopped or added as appropriate. If I couldn't envision a CG illustrating a certain sequence, I have no choice but to write my way around it.

[Eiliya]

The fact that it's a hybrid RPG might increase the potential audience outside of that of a typical visual novel (which do have a lot of otome fans). If you market it as a game as well, you will be able to get the gaming audience. The downside of that is that you'll have to focus on getting the game part down because that will be one of your main selling points.

That is alittle bit of what I am placing my hopes on, that I'll be able to attract people outside of this community as well as at least a few from here. The scary part, as you noted, will be to give the players a play-experience that will not be dull and boring. I'm working on trying to figure that out as we speak, though.

I think having nameless NPCs is fine. But having most of them be NPCs might be slight overkill, it really depends how many full characters you have.

In the first game, we will have 8 important, fully developed NPCs. Some of them will only feature a short period of screen-time in this first game, but will come back in future games, provided we get there. The remaining character sprites would be stuff like Elderly Innkeeper, Village Child(Male), City Guard A, Tavern Maid and other general-purpose sprites. I have decided to cut loose quite alot of those, maybe bringing it down to a close-up of a face or something instead.

That is manga artwork though (realistic style around 80s and later... see Lodoss). Western artwork is what's found in point and click adventure and hidden object games.

Good point, why didn't I see that. I love Lodoss >_<;; I should've seen the resemblance without having to have it pointed out for me.

Maybe the events are delegated to their 'B' artists, keeping their 'A' artists for the main designs.

Plausible. I just don't think they have all that much experience with erotic art, is all. I don't mind though.

Tricky, but that's how I would go about it. In my case I commissioned concept art with front, back, side, and 3/4 views of the body and at least 6 facial expressions. If the designs are simple enough I'm able to fill in any missing drawings by tracing (since I paid for the designs, and the original artist is credited as the main designer)

My skill at drawing, even tracing, can be compared to a crow having ink on their feet and walking over a canvas. I can't draw at all, even with a simple image in the back to work over. I can make fairly good pose-references, but that's about it, sadly. As it stands now, I've found an artist who might be willing to help me for 40~50 bucks per image instead of the 125~150 I pay for this artist. Much as I would love to keep the current one, my budget simply doesn't allow it just yet.

Nothing is set in stone though. While a complete script -> limited asset count would be ideal, I'm finding that most creative work nowadays is iterative, with scenes chopped or added as appropriate. If I couldn't envision a CG illustrating a certain sequence, I have no choice but to write my way around it.

A lot of the scenes and events in Footsteps are represented by dungeon-crawling and combat though, so I think I'll be able to cut down quite a lot in that aspect. For instance, earlier I figured I would need 8 images per dungeon, 6 to actually build the dungeon, one to represent the field of battle and one to use as background for non-combat events taking place in the dungeon, but after serious considderation, I realised that it wouldn't be neccessary. It would be cool, but not neccessary. So I scrapped it, cutting down the number of bg-related commissions I would need to make by 14+ (the + meaning some of those might've needed varying light conditions such as noon or midnight).

[Eiliya]

And so a year and a half has passed. Nothing's really happened with this project except the fact that I lost contact with the artist I got my commissions from. The radio-silence has been up for over a year now, so I've decided to give up and find a new artist (which of course results in all the previous art not being usable anymore due to continuity). I did make a small attempt at making the game into a full isometruc rpg using Unity, but realized that my level of coding was far too low for such a project, and instead returned to giving it a try using RenPy.

I've decided to make a proper update on how things stand now, but I'm torn between if I should make it as a post in this thread, edit the first post in this thread, or just make a new thread, since it more or less will be a restart of the project. What do you guys think?

[papillon]

Ouch. Always sucks to lose artists, especially when you have a lot of work put in.

This -might- be a good opportunity to rescope the project, though. Your initial concept seemed pretty huge, even sprawling in places.

Can you rework the idea and make a game with the resources you DO have? Even if it's only a tiny teaser of what you originally had in mind?

It's helpful in multiple ways - it means that your art doesn't go to waste, but it also gives you experience in coding and putting the polish bits of a game together (your top-post sample screenshots, for example, show nice commissioned art but no idea of GUI), and will allow you to get something out there for feedback from others.

Not only will that help you figure out choices to make when tackling your bigger idea, but it may also attract some fans and make it easier for you to get funding and support should you need it.

The market shifts a lot lately - the rise in easy access to the Steam audience means that a sexy VN/RPG with optional ero-scenes is much easier to sell this year than it was in early 2014. And again, a free short game put out on that platform might help you drum up interest for a bigger and better project.

[Eiliya]

What I have right now are 5 character concepts plus 3 monster concepts (all of which can also work as sprites for combat) from David (the original artist) and 8 more character concepts plus 3 more monster concepts (once again, they can double as combat sprites) from a different artist who is fairly similar but not quite the same. I also have environmental concept art for the first half of the original intended idea (which can work as background images for the non-dungeon aspects of the game), but I don't have any images that work together with Nyaatraps dungeoncrawler engine (which is what I am hoping to implement into the game as the dungeon crawler aspect. Lastly I have lineart versions of the first three erotic scenes in the game, and sketches for the first 8 scenes. I also have a half-finished concept art of one non-erotic scene that takes place a bit into the story.

Of course I have enough to make something out of this, but I don't really know how much of an actual story could be put into it.

I could make it into something like "Theodore, a wanted man with the character type of an anti-hero, arrives at a village suffering from an issue with undead. Seeing an opportunity to make some profit (both socially and finacially) he decides to help out before proceeding to his real adventure." That would let me get through the first three dungeons of the actual game, and could probably be done with the art I have now. The only issue would be how to implement the actual dungeoncrawling aspect, since I don't have any art that can be used with Nyaatrap's dugeon crawler engine.

In the first post, I attached an image that shows a peaceful village. Does anyone know of any way to take that image and edit it (without having to redraw it) in a way that makes it look like it's night instead? If I could do that, I might be able to do something. I just need to figure out Jake's Battle Engine first.