Anyone willing to participate in experimental VN?(Concluded)

[JQuartz]

EXPERIMENT STATUS = Concluded


Experiment: Making A Continuous VN
Objective:
1) To determine whether it is possible to maintain interest in a continuous VN made by fans for fans
2) To find out the technical and social/interpersonal problems that may arise from such a VN

Things Needed:
1) Renpy engine (Renpy 6.4.0 since rpa files are not compatible with older ones)
2) Ability to endure bad looking graphic, bad sounding music and an absurd story.
3) (Theoretically) 60 minutes of your precious time (extra 30 minutes if no knowledge of Renpy)
4) A typical computer and internet connection


Intro:
The above mentioned continuous VN is defined as a VN which has these features:
1) Each chapter is a game by itself though it'll be merged together to form 1 VN
2) the work on the next chapter can only commence after the current chapter is completed. Work on previous chapters are however free from such constraints.
3) when more than 1 story is made for the the same chapter. the story branches. This is the only way the story is allowed to branch
4) If an author has completed a chapter, he/she is not allowed to make the next chapter. This is to prevent one person from having too much control over the direction of the story. (This however is still open to discussion) This rule has been discarded

Instructions:
Downloading File By File
1) Launch the renpy.exe and start a new project. Name it anything you want.
2) Download the following files at the end of this post; script.rpy and prompt based template.rpy
3) Put those files into the newly created project's folder, replacing it's script.rpy with the newly downloaded one
4) Play through the very short game once.
5) Download the following files at the end of this post; JQuartz_1_chapter_1_branch_1.zip and extract into the above mentioned folder.
6) Play through the game again and see the changes.
7) Try to make either next part of one of the branches or branch off to form a new one. JQuartz_1_chapter_1_branch_1.rpy as reference though it's probably unnecessary given the automation done by the prompt based interface.
8) Remember that this is just for experimental purposes so don't spend too much time and effort to make your part of the game. 15 minutes would be enough. Also to speed up the experiment, make sure the total size of your parts of the game isn't larger than 500kb.
9) Post your game on this thread (a zipped file of your rpa and rpyc file just like JQuartz_1_chapter_1_branch_1.zip)

Downloading The Starter Pack
1) Launch the renpy.exe and start a new project. Name it anything you want.
2) Go to the latest post, look around for a StarterPack.zip and download it.
3) Extract the files into the newly created game folder. Replace the folder's script.rpy with this one. Replacing Options.rpy is however optional.
4) Block out (select all and Ctrl+Q if you're using Scite) all the codes in template.rpy if you do not wish to use it for the time being.
5) Play through the game
6) Try to make either next part of one of the branches or branch off to form a new one. Use template.rpy as reference.
7) Remember that this is just for experimental purposes so don't spend too much time and effort to make your part of the game. 15 minutes would be enough. Also to speed up the experiment, make sure the total size of your parts of the game isn't larger than 500kb.
8) Post your game on this thread (a zipped file of your rpa and rpyc file just like Bigfish_1_chapter_1_branch_2.zip)

Other stuff:
1) If you have questions please post them here. Those questions might prove to be very useful in understanding this VN.
2) If possible visit this thread again and hopefully be able to participate in the VN again. Even if that isn't possible, your current participation is greatly appreciated.
3) Comments and criticism is appreciated as well (even if you don't participate)

[BigFish]

A couple questions:

* Can a part of a chapter have choices within it? You know, like with a "menu" command?
* Does the media have to be in an .rpa file, in case there's going to be some consistent media throughout the project?

That's it. This looks fun though! Great for people like me with dialup.

[BigFish]

Not sure if double posting is right, but here's my part of the story.

I'm a bit confused on how this works really. Why does it have to be so complicated!?

[monele]

Guh, I get a crash with the first version :/...

Exception: Couldn't find file 'JQuartz_3_pizza.png'.

While running game code:
- script at line 16 of D:\Renpy 6.4\renpy-6.4.0-full\renpy-6.4.0\Silly game\game/JQuartz_chapter_1_branch_1.rpy

No comprendo

[Vatina]

I get the same message as Monele ^^;

[JQuartz]

Thank you, Bigfish, Monele and Vatina for your participation. Your participation had helped me and this project greatly. I have a few questions to ask but you aren't obliged to answer them, since your participation alone is good enough.

I'm a bit confused on how this works really. Why does it have to be so complicated!?

Yes this is very different compared to how normal VNs played out thus it's probably hard to understand how it works. Even I don't really fully understand how it works hence this experiment is conducted. But I agree the variables are especially confusing. I'll try to make some changes to reduce it's complexity

Can a part of a chapter have choices within it? You know, like with a "menu" command?

You can't have choices because the choices should only be made between chapters. This however is still open to discusssion. Currently after the prologue there is branching but there wasn't any when only one path was available.

Does the media have to be in an .rpa file, in case there's going to be some consistent media throughout the project?

.
Well being inside an rpa file is just for experimental purposes because I want to see whether it's going to be feasable for a real VN project (where people archive their art) I also wanted to ask participant to use rpyc files instead of rpc files but then I realized it would be very hard to debug.

Attachments:
File comment: My branch.
BigFish_1_chapter_1_branch_2.zip [4.22 KB]

The first technical problem had arised. I think I'll have to make some changes to template.rpy. I'll try to get a new labels.rpy posted. Anyway how long did you take to make you part? And in case you still hadn't found out there is 2 extra buttons in the game menu, author name and path taken

Guh, I get a crash with the first version :/...

I get the same message as Monele ^^;

Huh? I couldn't replicate the error. What do you mean by first version? What version of renpy are you using? Could you post the problem file (JQuartz_3_chapter_1_branch_1.rpy?). Did you try using the latest JQuartz_3_...zip?

[JQuartz]

Branches already in use:
branch1
branch2

If you wish to start a new branch do not use the above numbers.

[PyTom]

I would suggest the following rules:

1) The game lives in a zip file, which gets updated each time someone contributes it. The zip file contains the base and game directories, which can be dropped into a Ren'Py distribution.

2) The files should be kept in the game directory. There's no room for a .rpa in a game like this. Similarly, we should include .rpy files.

3) I would suggest that we prefix chapter-specific stuff with "ch#". So chapter1 would live in the file ch1.rpy, use labels beginning with ch1 and variables beginning with ch1, etc. An exception to this should be characters and images, which will probably be used in all the files.

I'm also guessing people should "claim the game"... once a chapter is posted, a person can claim the next chapter... and then they'll have, say, 1 week to post an updated version.

[DaFool]

Hmmm... yeah. It's a bit too messy as it is. Also, have a Changelog.txt which each participant modifies before submitting.

I think for branching, 2 people can claim the work in progress at the same time, as long as they agree to only touch their respective portions. Then they'd resubmit only their rpy files and JQuartz and compile an updated game directory.

[BigFish]

Right now, it appears that every choice menu requires an array AND a pointer in "Labels.rpy". Maybe with a 2 dimensional array and variables for the chapter and branch number, this could be fixed?

[JQuartz]

Thanks Pytom and DaFool for your feedbacks.

3) I would suggest that we prefix chapter-specific stuff with "ch#". So chapter1 would live in the file ch1.rpy, use labels beginning with ch1 and variables beginning with ch1, etc.

Using ch instead of chapter and br instead of branch would really be good. I'll see what i can do about it.

An exception to this should be characters and images, which will probably be used in all the files

Each chapter is owned by the author of that particular chapter. If he/she doesn't want his/her art be used in any of the other chapter, it is her/his choice. You can see who owns a particular chapter by going into the menu screen and click on author name.

I'm also guessing people should "claim the game"... once a chapter is posted, a person can claim the next chapter... and then they'll have, say, 1 week to post an updated version.

But that would make this game no different than a regular VN that has more than 1 writer. One of the most important feature of this game is that more than one path can be added without causing any problems(you can just put the rpyc and rpa files into the directory)
And if there is more than 1 'next chapter' the story will then branch. This is the only way the story may branch.

2) The files should be kept in the game directory. There's no room for a .rpa in a game like this. Similarly, we should include .rpy files.

Why would there be no room? Is there a number of rpa files that can be added to a game? Currently both bigfish and my rpa files are running simultaneously.

1) The game lives in a zip file, which gets updated each time someone contributes it. The zip file contains the base and game directories, which can be dropped into a Ren'Py distribution.

I don't really get this. Care to elaborate?

Hmmm... yeah. It's a bit too messy as it is. Also, have a Changelog.txt which each participant modifies before submitting.

Each persons work is confined to it's own chapter as long as the person follow the naming format. So what ever one person does to the game, it won't affect anyone elses (unless they wish to be affected)

I think for branching, 2 people can claim the work in progress at the same time, as long as they agree to only touch their respective portions. Then they'd resubmit only their rpy files and JQuartz and compile an updated game directory.

No need to do anything other than to post your rpyc(in the real one not this experimental one) and rpa files. Also just because a path has been made doesn't mean anyone elses would not be able to be used. The system allows a theoretical infinte branches so in other words infinite number of people can post the works and play it without any problems (though updating labels.rpy will kill the label master)

[JQuartz]

Right now, it appears that every choice menu requires an array AND a pointer in "Labels.rpy". Maybe with a 2 dimensional array and variables for the chapter and branch number, this could be fixed?

Thanks Bigfish for the feedback. But unfortunately I don't really know how to do it since I'm not a programmer. I can only think in Renpy. Python stuff still confuses me. I don't even know what an array or a pointer is. If you're willing to show then I'll make sure it's implemented if it fits the definition of a continuous vn.

Oh and by the way there is new versions of the files available including yours at the first post. And another thing, the switch is way too small to be found. Can you make it bigger? (This experiment is running under the assumption that all posted files are obfuscated so I can't make any changes that are not technical in nature.)

[BigFish]

Thanks Bigfish for the feedback. But unfortunately I don't really know how to do it since I'm not a programmer. I can only think in Renpy. Python stuff still confuses me. I don't even know what an array or a pointer is. If you're willing to show then I'll make sure it's implemented if it fits the definition of a continuous vn.

An array is a variable that's a list. Like, variable "X" could have 45 different numbers in it. You make a variable something like this: (I forgot exactly how to make arrays in Python, though...)

Code: Select all

$ X[5] = (1,34,778,45,77)

Where [5] is the number of numbers inside X. You can also do strings and stuff two.

A two dimensional array is like a table, though. Like:

Code: Select all

$ X[5][5] = (1,1,1,1,1)
            (1,4,0,0,1)
            (1,0,2,0,1)
            (1,0,0,4,1)
            (1,1,1,1,1)

You actually used an array in your "labels.rpy"!

Code: Select all

chapter1_branch1_data=[]

That's an array. When there's no number in between the [], it makes it an indefinite array. It pretty much means the array goes on forever.

And I used the wrong word when I said pointer. I meant a Ren'Py label. Like:

Code: Select all

Label bobiscool:
bob "I am cool!"
ed "You are lame."

Sorry!

You should try learning Python. It's kinda fun really! Well, I guess I'd think it's fun, because I've tried using C++..... and that makes anything look easy. Besides, I'm horrible at explaining this stuff.

edit:

How this would relate to your thing is that a 2D Array would hold all the data for the choices and stuff. Like, I'll make an actual table to illustrate

Code: Select all

Choice              Label to go to     Chapter
"Get Rotten Pizza"  "JQuartz_3_start"  1
"Feel for switch"   "BigFish_1_start"  1

Actually in this case you'd need a 3D array, but do you get my idea? There'd be a "currentchapter" variable, and whenever a choice would come up it would list all the items in the array with the chapter number of "currentchapter". Get what I'm saying? Someone who knows more about Python might be able help more, but BASIC is more of my forte. The more I learn about Python, though, the more I like it.

Oh and by the way there is new versions of the files available including yours at the first post. And another thing, the switch is way too small to be found. Can you make it bigger?

Yeah, okay. Maybe I'll add some music too, since I'll be updating the archive... I've got some mod files that could be put to use! Modarchive.com rocks!

[JQuartz]

Thanks again bigfish, your help has been invaluable.

Code:
Choice Label to go to Chapter
"Get Rotten Pizza" "JQuartz_3_start" 1
"Feel for switch" "BigFish_1_start" 1

This has been implemented in the latest version of the files. Labels.rpy is now officially obsolete.


STATUS REPORT

Currently 3 parts are available:
Chapter 1
Branch 1, Branch 2

Chapter 2
Branch 2

Currently No Known Bugs
Latest Version is for script and template is 3.0

[monele]

One of the most important feature of this game is that more than one path can be added without causing any problems(you can just put the rpyc and rpa files into the directory)

I agree. It's not mandatory but I do think it would be nice if no one had to *wait* to add to the game. And of course, it'd be nice to be able to add a new choice near the beginning as much as it is to add new stuff at the end of the current story.

The game lives in a zip file, which gets updated each time someone contributes it.

It would be nice to have the starting pack as a zip. Having floating files all around makes it confusing and, as shown by our problem, uncertain that it'll run.
After that, additional parts could be separated (but all new files in a single zip too)... and maybe from time to time, a zip combining all that's been done so far could be made, so newcomers don't have to download a thousand files just to be up to date.

EDIT : I still get a crash ~_~.... We *really* need a "complete zip" we could simply uncompress in a new Ren'Py project folder and be done with it. I'm probably missing a file or something but I have no idea which one.

Code: Select all

I'm sorry, but an exception occured while executing your Ren'Py
script.

Exception: Couldn't find file 'JQuartz_1_pizza.png'.

While running game code:
 - script at line 26 of D:\Jeux\renpy-game\infistory/game/JQuartz_1_chapter_1_branch_1.rpy

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-game\renpy\bootstrap.py", line 197, in bootstrap
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-game\renpy\main.py", line 303, in main
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-game\renpy\main.py", line 98, in run
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-game\renpy\execution.py", line 171, in run
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-game\renpy\ast.py", line 290, in execute
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-game\renpy\exports.py", line 472, in say
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-game\renpy\character.py", line 598, in __call__
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-game\renpy\character.py", line 362, in display_say
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-game\renpy\ui.py", line 66, in interact
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-game\renpy\display\core.py", line 1166, in interact
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-game\renpy\display\core.py", line 1515, in interact_core
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-game\renpy\display\core.py", line 1109, in event_wait
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-game\renpy\display\im.py", line 264, in preload
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-game\renpy\display\im.py", line 127, in get
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-game\renpy\display\im.py", line 351, in load
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-game\renpy\loader.py", line 241, in load
Exception: Couldn't find file 'JQuartz_1_pizza.png'.

While running game code:

Ren'Py Version: Ren'Py 6.3.0d