How to Deal with Shame as a Writer?

[Mad Harlequin]

I think maybe I would feel better if I just finished one project, and maybe if I just tried to make them smaller it would feel more doable. Unfortunately, it seems even my small ideas feel very intimidating to me. I think I'm putting a lot of pressure on myself to make "The Next Big Thing" quality work (not that it has to be popular, but *I* want to feel like I did a professional job) and I'm just not at that level.

Just do the best you can. You have the right to proud of something you create. I've felt the same as you about my own writing sometimes. What I try to remember is that each time I write, I have the opportunity to make something new, and that in itself is special, regardless of the scope of the piece or what people may think of it.

Eleanor Roosevelt said, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

[Haze]

Just do the best you can. You have the right to proud of something you create.

And this is probably the best advice you're going to get. Good job, Mad Harlequin.

Learning to be proud and confident in what you create is a process that may take some time, but once you get there, I think you'll be ok. *hugs*

[Angelee]

A lack of comments is a sign that you did something Right. Seriously. It's when you get something Wrong that everyone and their third cousin crawls out of the woodwork to say something about it. So no comments = "Good Job! They found nothing to complain about!"

Aww, I feel like there's truth in that but it's kind of sad isn't it? I'm the opposite though. I usually make a point of commenting on things I like. Things I don't like, well...if you don't have anything nice to say, right? Sometimes I give out constructive criticism if I feel like it's a big problem and no one has mentioned it already but normally I just don't say anything unless I know the person. You never know how a stranger's going to take it. Unless they have that nifty "honest critique" button / text in their signature that they have here. I think every website where you can post your creative work should have something like that.

EDIT: Whoops I think I misread how the Honest Critique Button works. Anyway, I still don't like the idea of needing to wear a button to get people to tell me honest things. It kind of implies lying is the norm. The first thing someone is going to do is check whether or not the writer has the button. They might be looking for honest feedback and have no idea about the whole concept of the Honest Critique Button and so they don't use it. And then they don't get the feedback they're looking for. I'm not really a fan of giving a sugar-coated version of critique to people. And there's certainly no way to stop someone from giving a harsh critique (not insulting, but harsh) to someone who doesn't have the button. I wonder how many people have given me "lighter" critiques just because I don't have it in my signature?

I used to think like that until I took a Creative Writing 101 class and gave honest criticism to my classmates. Some of them got a little mad, even though it was literally our assignment to critique each other and I was being super polite about it. I'm a shy person so that freaked me out. I'm sorry but it's all sunshine and sugar-coated from me for now, unless I know the person isn't likely to chew me out for it. I never took another writing class and that was a big part of the reason why. It's incredibly stupid, I know, but I can't help how I feel about that. And it's not like I outright lie to people, for example, saying that their grammar was perfect when they made a bunch of mistakes. I just focus my comment on the things I did like about it.

There's a silver lining though. Even without the "honest critique" button, if I see other people critiquing and the OP doesn't flip out on them or something, I feel much more confident in giving a critique as well.

EDIT: Also, I've noticed that the people on Lemma are generally really nice about getting critique. Not like some of the other forums / sites I've been on.

[Mad Harlequin]

And this is probably the best advice you're going to get. Good job, Mad Harlequin.

Thanks!

Regarding the Honest Critique button:

I don't think anyone needs the Honest Critique button to receive honest critique. My understanding of the button is that it encourages more frank critiques and discussions. I don't believe it means lying is the status quo. It's just that we are sometimes too afraid to give feedback that others may not like, especially in a new environment, and that's normal. But I do believe we should always challenge ourselves to talk about uncomfortable subjects. It's a good way to learn. I chose to have the button in my signature for that reason.

Anyway, button or no button, lately I've noticed that more people here are opening up about issues they see, or even just providing more context to their praise of a project, and that's great.

[Lesleigh63]

If you want to write, write.

It will be easier to get a project to completion if you do both the writing and the art. Start small (kinetic if you want) so that you get that boost of having made a game and getting it out there.

That said, getting an audience for your completed game/s can take time. You need to build up your audience/followers which in my opinion means producing a number of works to get your name out there. So even if that first game doesn't get a lot of attention - don't sweat it - put all your energy after it's release into making the next larger game. Just keep going.

[Akai85]

It's not your fault or your writings fault you didn't get feedback. The general ratio of replies on forum posts is like 1-10/100 views or less. It has nothing to do with the quality of your writing, I assure you.

And if I did read a piece of writing or something where the creator was asking for critique I'd give it. I give honest critique in real life and I've always been pissed to get feedback that's meant to be helpful but is just basically "I liked it" or "I didn't like it." Additionally some people have weird-ass standards and don't know what good writing is - it is a public forum.

There are a lot of people here who know what they're talking about but I've also seen a lot of replies on here similar to stuff I've seen on fanfiction.net - "It's funny, keep going " or "I think you should change the couple to these two characters I like" and other generally unhelpful things. Websites for poetry and literature type writing also get this, unfortunately. Wouldn't it be great if there was a group for honest peer reviews or something?

Some people also get really defensive of critique they receive, even though you're trying to help them fix their mistakes and not saying their writing is unsalvageably bad. For this reason I tend to avoid giving critique when I don't feel explicitly invited to do so - as in someone saying in their request that they want harsh or thorough critique. A lot of people who say they want critique actually want pats on the back - though the honest critique button does have. Because of all these reasons it's incredibly hard to get useful feedback on things.

My advice is take everything that people say/don't say on the internet with a grain of salt. Maybe try showing your writing to people you know in real life that can be trusted to give good feedback or join a writers circle or something. I'm thinking of joining one myself...

[Tempus]

Anyway, I still don't like the idea of needing to wear a button to get people to tell me honest things.

Me neither—and I created it! I no longer use it since I don't think it's the right solution. There's something mildly disturbing about its presence. What does it say about the forum that at one time someone thought this necessary and a large enough group of people agreed? (Also, am I actually using "feedback," "criticism," and "critique" interchangeably in that honest critique OP? Way to raise the bar and not sow further confusion, me.)

[agentyoda]

If you want quality critique, perhaps try out Scribophile.com; as long as you keep your piece within the necessary length parameters, there's going to be someone who comes by and critiques it. (It's part of the system; you have to critique to be able to post. It's forced me to critique others, which has actually helped my own writing a lot.)

[Obscura]

Hmm, how long was the excerpt?

The longer something is, the fewer people will want to critique it. Especially on this board, which is is full of amazingly helpful people, but a great many of whom are devs strapped for time.

Even people who want to help will stop short when they see something longer than a paragraph or two, since they'll feel unable to give your piece the attention it deserves.

And I think it's quite possible you could have written something great, but nobody would have bothered to read it. As a visual novel board, I don't think people aren't crazy about reading blocks of text here. It's not right or wrong, it's just the nature of this medium and this site. In contrast, I've posted things on AbsoluteWrite before, and have gotten multiple critiques.

So, you might be beating yourself up over nothing at all.

(Also, writing is hard. I never stop feeling distraught over my work. It's what keeps me revising after the first several drafts.)

[trooper6]

Anyway, I still don't like the idea of needing to wear a button to get people to tell me honest things.

Me neither—and I created it! I no longer use it since I don't think it's the right solution. There's something mildly disturbing about its presence. What does it say about the forum that at one time someone thought this necessary and a large enough group of people agreed? (Also, am I actually using "feedback," "criticism," and "critique" interchangeably in that honest critique OP? Way to raise the bar and not sow further confusion, me.)

I like the button, myself.

Not everyone here is here for critique. Some people are here just to advertise their games. Some are here just to get pats on the back. Some don't want to get deep into it.

I don't feel comfortable going into a full critique unless a) I see that button or b) I've built up some sort of rapport with the creator that I think my critique will be well received.

I have played some VNs here I don't think work. If there is no honest critique button and the problems I have are serious. I won't lie. I just won't post.
If I generally have a very positive response, I'll post with or without the button.

Now, if I decided I wanted to be able to say whatever I wanted to say? I'd set up a review blog and then say whatever I wanted. But it doesn't always feel appropriate to do that here unless invited to do so.

As for the OP. I don't comment on writing hardly ever. Mainly because I'm more interesting in commenting on writing that has been placed into a VN framework...even in the absence of artwork. Mainly because I find that implementing the text really changes it. I want to give feedback on the second stage of writing rather than the first. So If I see a block of fiction style text that has not been written to be framed as VN text, I'm not going to read it.

[noeinan]

Hmm, how long was the excerpt?

The longer something is, the fewer people will want to critique it. Especially on this board, which is is full of amazingly helpful people, but a great many of whom are devs strapped for time...

That might be partly it-- it wasn't formatted into paragraphs, but rather lines to be put into a visual novel, and because of that formatting it looked longer than if it was in paragraph style formatting.

As for the OP. I don't comment on writing hardly ever. Mainly because I'm more interesting in commenting on writing that has been placed into a VN framework...even in the absence of artwork. Mainly because I find that implementing the text really changes it. I want to give feedback on the second stage of writing rather than the first. So If I see a block of fiction style text that has not been written to be framed as VN text, I'm not going to read it.

I can definitely see that. I actually write straight into vn lines rather than typical "novel" paragraphs because it's less intimidating for me, and because it requires less formatting later. But I did get an offer to look it over after I have actually put it into a visual novel draft, with sketched images etc. The person said it was easier to judge the writing when they knew which parts were supposed to be expressed in images (since images make up for less detail in the writing.)

[Angelee]

Anyway, I still don't like the idea of needing to wear a button to get people to tell me honest things.

Me neither—and I created it! I no longer use it since I don't think it's the right solution. There's something mildly disturbing about its presence. What does it say about the forum that at one time someone thought this necessary and a large enough group of people agreed? (Also, am I actually using "feedback," "criticism," and "critique" interchangeably in that honest critique OP? Way to raise the bar and not sow further confusion, me.)

Now that just makes me feel bad for liking the button... I'll put one in my signature as well once I figure out how I actually have something to critique...unless you decide to take it down or something.

Anyway, I still don't like the idea of needing to wear a button to get people to tell me honest things.

Me neither—and I created it! I no longer use it since I don't think it's the right solution. There's something mildly disturbing about its presence. What does it say about the forum that at one time someone thought this necessary and a large enough group of people agreed? (Also, am I actually using "feedback," "criticism," and "critique" interchangeably in that honest critique OP? Way to raise the bar and not sow further confusion, me.)

I like the button, myself.

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

[Mad Harlequin]

What does it say about the forum that at one time someone thought this necessary and a large enough group of people agreed?

I think it says that people saw the need for more open discussion and critique at one time---nothing more, nothing less. It called attention to a perceived issue. But the meaning of a symbol can change. The desire for honest critique may no longer be an issue, exactly, but as I said before, I view the button as an invitation to people who might otherwise fear giving me their true opinions, or those who want to be assured of honest feedback from me. It doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with the forum.

Of course, I would still be honest without it, and I was. I haven't had this button in my signature for very long.

[Carnero del Mal]

Try to forget about people being better or worse than you at something. Write to meet you own standards and don't be afraid of feedback, there is people willing to read and help you.

Write, show, listen, get better, try again.

[Vogue]

A few days ago, my university had a reading for a somewhat recent graduate who put out his second novel. Someone from the audience asked him was a similar question to the OP, and the author's advice really resounded with me. If you believe you have something worth saying, as all writers should, then write. Be arrogant-- not on message boards or in the face people who ask you what you do-- but inside. Be certain that with the hours you pour into honing your craft that you'll write something that can make a real impact, that people will cherish. Let yourself make shitty first drafts that nobody will see, stupid typos, one-dimensional characters, and tropey fanfiction. Just write, and do better next time.

Another thing he mentioned. When you read a passage from a novel (or in many of y'alls cases, a visual novel) and think to yourself, "I will never write something as good as this," realize that the author, his editor, the publisher, the proofreader and the marketers all at some point put their eyes on that script and made their edits to it. Very few works stand on their own as the triumph of a single person, and the pressure will be much less daunting with your team at your back.