Are you sceptical of games using pre-made assets?

[bluebirdplays]

I don't disrespect developers for using premade assets. In fact, I'm still so new to the genre as a whole, I personally wouldn't notice. Using premade assets is a great way to start out and build your first few games! From there? Join some game jam teams and meet folks! Offer your coding and writing abilities and work on something together- maybe they're an artist, or a musician, or writer - and maybe they'd like to work with you again on future projects.

That's the only thing. Pre-made assets only go so far, and because visuals are 50% of the game, for more serious works, I would suggest partnering up with folks.

[thebackup]

No, I don't mind at all. Yeah, like everyone else said they're useful for first-timers, and especially if you're a casual developer, making short games and such. Or simply just personal choice. Heck, my earliest VNs used pre-made assets.

That's the only thing. Pre-made assets only go so far, and because visuals are 50% of the game, for more serious works, I would suggest partnering up with folks.

Very much agree with this - eventually you'll want to have assets unique to your game. Very much worth it, having the satisfaction of seeing your own characters come to life, tailored to your tastes.

[YossarianIII]

This is purely anecdotal, but based on the forum posts I've read, people place much more emphasis on GUI than I ever would've guessed. I almost think that the default menu screens carry more connotations of "new developer" than Creative Commons music or backgrounds.

My theory is that it's because everyone who uses Ren'Py recognizes the default settings, but Creative Commons materials can at least come from an obscure source. The default menu tends to mark something as "a Ren'Py game" instead of just "a game." (My counter-theory is that maybe people actually don't care about GUI that much and it's just an obvious place to give constructive criticism.)

I have mixed feelings... while GUI is generally the last thing I care about when playing a VN, I'll admit that kind of stuff can be important for first impressions, which are especially important for unknown developers.

Has anyone else noticed this, or do you think I'm overstating how much emphasis people place on GUI?

[Yolo400]

This is purely anecdotal, but based on the forum posts I've read, people place much more emphasis on GUI than I ever would've guessed. I almost think that the default menu screens carry more connotations of "new developer" than Creative Commons music or backgrounds.

My theory is that it's because everyone who uses Ren'Py recognizes the default settings, but Creative Commons materials can at least come from an obscure source. The default menu tends to mark something as "a Ren'Py game" instead of just "a game." (My counter-theory is that maybe people actually don't care about GUI that much and it's just an obvious place to give constructive criticism.)

I have mixed feelings... while GUI is generally the last thing I care about when playing a VN, I'll admit that kind of stuff can be important for first impressions, which are especially important for unknown developers.

Has anyone else noticed this, or do you think I'm overstating how much emphasis people place on GUI?

It is a dead giveaway, you're absolutely right, and I suppose nothing would make a jaded developer sigh more upon opening someone's fresh project than seeing the generic interface, to then find CC materials which have been used thousands of times with a lukewarm cliche opening.

But hey, I don't think there's a huge problem in doing it, as a starting out person you're not trying to impress anyone (or shouldn't be) and if all the criticism you get is "Sort your GUI out" or "you should make your own music/artwork or get it done for you" then that's great! At least your not getting reports of broken interfaces, dialogues that don't work, story that doesn't function properly or god knows what else.

[Tempus]

Has anyone else noticed this, or do you think I'm overstating how much emphasis people place on GUI?

Yeah, now that you mention it the default menu does get a lot more crit than I've ever seen leveled at CC assets. This might sound a little weird but I wonder whether it's due to the way it frames how you experience a VN/game both visually and ... interactively, for lack of a better word.

I'm having trouble articulating this even in my own head which probably isn't a good sign... Analogy time! You know how you can sort of feel when you're watching TV? All the TV shows have this TV-ish feel, or at least they did back when they had to be designed around adverts. It's like your brain has this internal advert clock that's always ticking over. Like, no one is ever watching TV and incorrectly predicts the adverts' timing, right? Maybe a default UI has the same psychological effect on people. With a default UI there's this same element of predictability, but also the same awareness of what exists outside the media itself. Ads are not part of the TV show, but your brain is unconsciously counting down to them. In both cases some meta structure encompasses the media that we're aware of while experiencing the media itself — the commercial break format for TV shows, and for VNs the layout, design, and navigation hierarchy for default menus.

There's this feeling that we're looking into something through a peephole rather than just being inside it. The stuff we spy in the peephole (games, or even just the differing media within one game) changes, but the outer context of the thing we're spying through (i.e., the default UI) doesn't, and so we're anchored outside the experience. It renders us into second-order spectators where it's sort of like... "this is what the game would look like if you were looking at it," in the same way a YouTube video of a game is obscured by the cruft of the video player, annotations, and so on.

In short, I don't fucking know.

[SinaAzad]

even if it is Visual , at the end the Novel Part matters the most ! visual NOVEL maybe ? Of course having a group to make a unique art and gui will boost the end products quality but I think most of the people here don't judge the book by its cover !

recently I played a VN which had cute art , but that was it ! the story which matters the most was so bad I ended up dropping it !

Gambare !

[Sysen]

Umm.... yes, but it depends.... but to be honest.. i look down on games (not just VN) that use pre-made assets
for me.. if i''m going to buy a game i'm not going to buy or support(kickstarter,etc) a game that's using pre-made assets

However... using pre-made assets is not a problem if it's just for practicing
but, another better option is finding someone to work with, that way you'll know the workflow and how to deal with artist, programmer, composer, etc which can be useful on future.

[trooper6]

So...there are a couple things in the question that makes it hard to answer. Let me see if I can break it down.

I often have a problem with games using pre-made assets...but not because they are using pre-made assets in general, rather because the premade assets are not aesthetically coherent. They grabbed some anime high school sprites and are telling the story of WW2 Frech Resistance. They are using one of the default GUI themes...but it is crayon in bright colors for a depressing game about loss. They are using pre-made music...but it is from the 1940s and the game is set in the 1920s. Or everything looks random and doesn't match each other. That sort of thing.

Now, one can use pre-made assets and not have this problem. If you use premade assets and have a coherent aesthetic, I won't have any problem at all. On the flip side, one can commission work...but have it still be incongruous and/or inconsistent aesthetically...and even though the assets are brand new and not pre-made, I'll still be turned off.

I think it happens more often that aesthetic inconsistencies happen with pre-made assets, because it is harder to match everything up when you are using what you can, but I've seen games that use pre-made assets well. Christine Love certainly did with Don't Take It Personally Babe.

Also, I think it is totally fine to use default themes as a bass...again, as long as it fits with the game aesthetic. I used marker as a base for my game GUI...and while I did some styling and adjusting, I like the look of the buttons. That doesn't make my game crap.

As low no as the game is good and aesthetically coherent, I'll give it a try.

Will I buy it? That is another question. That one I'm not sure I could say yes to. If you as the artist got everything for free... I don't think I'd feel comfortable paying you when the people who made the bulk of the assets are not getting paid. Maybe I'd pay $1-2 but not more than that and the reviews would have to be amazing.

Freeware? No problem!

[ringonoki-ua]

Are you sceptical of games using pre-made assets?

I think that they would be good on prototyping stage. To help you define what aestectics you want in your game or at least how your characters objects and locations may look.

[YossarianIII]

I'm having trouble articulating this even in my own head which probably isn't a good sign... Analogy time! You know how you can sort of feel when you're watching TV? All the TV shows have this TV-ish feel, or at least they did back when they had to be designed around adverts. It's like your brain has this internal advert clock that's always ticking over. Like, no one is ever watching TV and incorrectly predicts the adverts' timing, right? Maybe a default UI has the same psychological effect on people. With a default UI there's this same element of predictability, but also the same awareness of what exists outside the media itself. Ads are not part of the TV show, but your brain is unconsciously counting down to them. In both cases some meta structure encompasses the media that we're aware of while experiencing the media itself — the commercial break format for TV shows, and for VNs the layout, design, and navigation hierarchy for default menus.

There's this feeling that we're looking into something through a peephole rather than just being inside it. The stuff we spy in the peephole (games, or even just the differing media within one game) changes, but the outer context of the thing we're spying through (i.e., the default UI) doesn't, and so we're anchored outside the experience. It renders us into second-order spectators where it's sort of like... "this is what the game would look like if you were looking at it," in the same way a YouTube video of a game is obscured by the cruft of the video player, annotations, and so on.

In short, I don't fucking know.

Have you ever read Marshall McLuhan? I haven't, but I wish I had because I would probably quote him or something now. Based on my Wikipedia-level knowledge of communication theory, I think he makes some similar points about the way people consume television.

I was skeptical about custom UI at first in the same way I'm skeptical about technically-impressive-but-emotionally-boring art -- I thought people's motivations for doing it were mostly just to look commercial. But I've softened on that stance and can see now how an elegant UI could be a legitimate creative goal and change the emotional experience.

My analogy would be newspaper comic strips: how the structure of a joke changes depending on whether it's 1 panel, 3 panels, or a multi-panel Sunday strip.

But despite coming around on custom UI, I'd agree with everyone so far who's said there's nothing wrong with the default UI, which is functional, intuitive, and (maybe most importantly) bug-free.

I would even go a step further and say I'd pay money for a good game with default settings -- theoretically, even full commercial price. (I say theoretically because while I have yet to find a VN example, Lord knows I've paid full price for and enjoyed albums with low production values.) So you'd have at least 1 potential customer...

[Lesleigh63]

I remember customizing my UI but using the default textbox and pretty much all the commentors said I should have cutomised the textbox as well. I kinda liked the plain textbox but obviously the players didn't.

[Anne]

The thing with the default GUI apart from it being default (and looking pretty much the same in spite of varying themes) is that it's kinda ugly. Especially the font. And people are going to look at it throughout the game, more than at any other art asset. (other points are that it's 800x600 and you might want to add extras like CG gallery)
Besides, while being the most important art assets sprites and GUI are at the same time the most affordable so I can't think of a good reason for a commercial game not to have them (the most optimistic idea would be that the creators honestly don't care about that side of things themselves - that's a very common situation with music for example - but why make a VISUAL novel at all if you don't care about visuals?)

[truefaiterman]

Are you sceptical of games using pre-made assets?

Yup, I am. A lot... if it IS a commercial product.

As others have stated, that's asking for people to pay something the creator hasn't paid for. And that's not cool at all. Of course, this is influenced by how many of those assets are you using, and how do you put them together (I don't mind, for example, using well-known classical music for a scene, or a somehow recognizable picture in a specific setting), as long as it is coherent and well-organised.

If it's for practice, or for a freeware project, go ahead! You're practising, and not everyone can be a one-man-orchestra. It would be dumb to force people to make teams just to have their "weekly short story VN" done with all-original assets even if it's something free made to get better.

Of course, once again as stated by others, free assets are limited, and using them without people noticing it too much is even harder.

And about the GUI... well, it IS kinda generic and only made to be entirely functional with no special aesthetics (not counting color schemes). But that's to be expected, since is a default interface which is supposed to work with all kind of games (and it does). But people tend to forget that menus and GUIs aren't just "a few boxes and texts", but the actual PACKAGE that envolves the whole game. Just as you should be able to look at a CG, or listen to a music track, and be able to discern part of what the game is about (heck, even with an important line from the story), the same should be applied to the overal GUI. It can be as subtle as a little change of colour, or a different shape here and there, but that alone creates more to the overall feeling.

[SinaAzad]

I remember customizing my UI but using the default textbox and pretty much all the commentors said I should have cutomised the textbox as well. I kinda liked the plain textbox but obviously the players didn't.

there is a high chance that the players you are talking about were knowledgeable about Ren'py , I'm sure if you would have shown the game to people without any idea of Ren'py and the default look of the text box , they would have liked it.
For example I always look at the UI to find its problems or get a new Idea , that's because I'm interested in them , but show it to my younger sis , she wouldn't care at all !

[CSV]

Do premade assets in games bother me? It depends.
If it's commercial, I do expect most assets to be unique to the game. There should be some investment in the VN if the creator expects to make a profit out of it.
If it's freeware... I usually don't mind visual novels that use premade backgrounds, music or GUIs, even if I recognize them. Backgrounds are difficult, most people in these forums probably have little to no music skills and GUIs are not exactly what I see as most important in a VN. Of course, it can be a bit boring if the same premade resources are used all the time.
As for sprites, they are a trickier matter, because they are meant to be associated with particular characters in a particular, and it is a bit odd when you end up playing several games that have the exact same sprites. They get hard to distinguish after a while. Plus, I really am a fan of CGs, and I am indeed skeptical of games with no CGs.

TL;DR: I prefer mostly original assets in commercial VNs; in freeware VNs, I like to have at least original sprites and CGs, everything else can be premade or not.