Ori, Ochi, Onoe.

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Kikered
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#76 Post by Kikered » Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:31 pm

Congrats on another fine release, mikey! I ended up with Ending 6 on my first attempt.

Visuals - Great! There isn't really much else that can be said that hasn't already been mentioned already. Is it just me, or does Ori look a bit... sinister on the title screen? I know I drew some false conclusions from it and the mention of "emotional bullying" earlier in the thread. :oops:
Also, the use of the sepia filter during the hospital flashback was a really clever way to obscure the truth revealed in Ending 4!
Music - For the most part, the music was well done. I personally found it to be mostly inobtrusive, but each piece suited the mood of the situation very well. The piece that really made a lasting impact was "dreamstrings" - most particularly the portion around 1:50. I don't know if I just happened to reach that point in the song during the emotional peaks or if it's timed to be that way, but I really was moved by it.

Story/Writing - I was really drawn in by the narration for this game compared to the previous ones. It had a nice balance between introspective thoughts, dialogue, and description while keeping a nice, steady pace. After releasing a game of my own, I really appreciate how you convey the narrator's emotions through his thoughts and words, making it a central focus of the what you tell the players. It's something I'd like to strive for in this genre of games considering how my writing focuses more on actions and dialogue.
The story itself was nicely presented, although I think it may have made the break-ups in the earlier parts a more reasonable outcome with a direct previewing of her angry side rather than hearing about it from hearsay. Regardless, I thought that the concept of using split personalities was very neat. Also, does that mean that Ori resurfaces and takes complete control of Ochi in Ending 5?
Other - The customized menus and additional effects like the moving steam and "floaties" were really nice added touches that helped add to the overall experience of the game. A minor inconvenience is that you couldn't continue from a previously saved location while a game was in progress. IIRC, there were a few spots in Part II where the colors for characters speaking were mixed up.

One thing I really struggled with was getting to Part II. As you've mentioned, most of the choices made a lot more sense in retrospect after getting Ending 4, but getting to it really took several hours of brute force. Unfortunately, even the hint posted earlier about going with one's gut feeling didn't help much since I'm a relatively emotionless person severely lacking in intuition. :P
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#77 Post by mikey » Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:26 pm

Thanks for that response!
Kikered wrote:I ended up with Ending 6 on my first attempt.
I am kind of fond of that ending, I like the CG ^_^... so if it was the first playthrough hopefully it was what you wanted.
Kikered wrote:Is it just me, or does Ori look a bit... sinister on the title screen?
BCS wanted to make a typically anime-ish title with the characters grouped together, but the thing there was as you said that their expressions do not represent the stereotypes (or dominant personality features) that the girls had in the game. It is admittedly a bit confusing, but then again I found it to be much less ordinary than the typical way of portraying the characters in the title so I'm actually happier that it's this way.
Kikered wrote:
Also, the use of the sepia filter during the hospital flashback was a really clever way to obscure the truth revealed in Ending 4!
I'm so glad you mentioned this! It was such a crucial CG to make and to fit in...
We even had to darken the original and add more overglow to kind of make it seem natural. And it's the reason why in the gallery its icon is blue/sepia colored, unlike all the other special CGs. And the hair (which should have been still white at that time) we concealed with the OR cap in Ochi's sprite with the eyepatches. The cap isn't entirely logical, but... I'm glad it has worked.
Kikered wrote:For the most part, the music was well done.
I am happy you said for the most part, as for the other part(s) (maybe when you feel it's not-so) the music is the key to something else. (yes, it's another hint).
Kikered wrote:The piece that really made a lasting impact was "dreamstrings" - most particularly the portion around 1:50. I don't know if I just happened to reach that point in the song during the emotional peaks or if it's timed to be that way, but I really was moved by it.
It wasn't intentional, but if you click at a certain speed, the 1:50 part comes in very fitting moments, such as the moment of the hospital kiss... when I played it to test it I often found myself trying to time my clicking just to get that effect.

I'm glad you liked the technical/design side as well. The fluffies and the shower fog are AFAIK the only special effects, but again, it wasn't the intention to overuse them or showcase things. So I'm glad it worked the way I kind of hoped it would be ^_^

In many ways so many things went right and so many circumstances have been favorable to us that for the first time I found it hard, if not impossible to add something to it. I was happy with everything. It's also one of the reasons why there are no authors' notes or anything. I wouldn't know what to write I guess...
Kikered wrote:IIRC, there were a few spots in Part II where the colors for characters speaking were mixed up.
Hmmm, I can't remember this, but given how many times I played through it, I'll have to take a break and do it again to check that. Generally though, we added colors to distinguish Yoshiyuki from the girls, not the girls from one another. I'll check this when I'll have the time.

Your question regarding Ending 5 >> Yes.
Kikered wrote:...since I'm a relatively emotionless person severely lacking in intuition...
Well, intuition isn't general. I know my wife knows me so she kind of sees through a lot, but not all people are the same, so making something like this was bound not to work for everyone in the same way.

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#78 Post by Taleweaver » Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:32 pm

Well, I finally understood the hint in ending 6...
In fact, I understood she was speaking about Morse code the first time I got the ending, but I failed to see the relevance. It's still VERY cryptic, though, and I doubt anyone will decipher its meaning before having played the game through by brute force.
On another totally unrelated note, if ending 10/9 is the first part of an easter egg, I'm missing the other two parts :)
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#79 Post by mikey » Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:54 pm

Taleweaver wrote:On another totally unrelated note, if ending 10/9 is the first part of an easter egg, I'm missing the other two parts :)
To be honest, I kind of can't figure out the meaning of that either. I'd need a cryptic hint myself.

Still... [slightly more serious spoiler/hint for Taleweaver follows]
In much the same way you got Ending 10 you can call up a chart of the Morihara Code at any point in the game - I trust you to figure this out quite easily. So you don't have to get it off the net or so. But wait... so you've actually found the Words Of Melody then??? If not, the next hint would be... well, thinking about the meaning of that phrase in conjunction with what's been said in the game... and then read my reply to Kikered... hmmm... you're really close IMO...

It's especially important how Onoe phrases the explanation, as she does not use the typical word, but something more general... and in turn more flexible.

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#80 Post by Sherman, the Ramni » Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:23 pm

Hello everyone ^^.

I'm not an adept to ren'ai games. I know what they are and I've even played a few (Da Capo, Kana ~Little Sister~ and SHUFFLE!). And to be true, most of them didn't atract me to play them again (ok, Da Capo Plus Communication maybe :P).

I've read about the indy ren'ai world in some websites, but never tried one of those.

Yesterday, I d/led Ori, Ochi, Onoe mostly out of curiosity. d/led in the morning, installed in the evening and took me a lot of effort to put away the Strawberry Panic! and Zegapain eps I was watching to play this.

1 hour later and the the 2nd path beaten, I said aah, yokatta.

It's an amazing game. Really. It's almost everything: the graphics (the character design is excellent except for Onoe's strange skin color, and I mean Ori, Ochi and Onoe being really hot anime-styled girls, subarashii!; another praise deserved by the ambient, especially at the beginning, cause it made ME feel as alone and happy as Yoshiyuki, and by the way, that freakin apartment - with that bedroom and that living room - is awesome), the story (an example: I couldn't bring myself to pause or minimize the game until I reached the end, really), the characters (I fell in love with Ochi right at the beginning, dunno why yet), and... the music. Excellent. (y). (Memories triggered something im my heart, dunno what, but every time I listen to it, I love that darn track even more.)

I will play this again, until I unlock everything. I just know.

Congratulations and a hug to this team for this excellent game. They deserve it.

If you ask me what to improve, 2 things:

- The character design. It's not bad at all, but something more... eeto... like drawing as a real mangaka. Don't know if this makes sense :P

- Please please please try to write LONGER scripts. I was left wondering "why so short!".

Sherman

P.D.: I couldn't resist the temptation, and transcoded the soundtrack to MP3, tagged it and right now I'm editing presplash.png. I'm just removing the Loading messange and adding a "Original Game Soundtrack" text right behind Ori, Ochi, Onoe (BTW, which font did you use to make that text?)

If it's OK with you guys, I can seed this thing, kind of a Original Game Soundtrack, ready to upload to an iPod, iAudio, whatever (that's why I'm doing this).

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#81 Post by PyTom » Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:27 pm

mikey wrote:To be honest, I kind of can't figure out the meaning of that either. I'd need a cryptic hint myself.
The first is in game, the second is out of game, and the third was here.
Well, it depends on how you account for easter eggs, I guess.
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SMWhat

#82 Post by SMWhat » Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:30 pm

I think I've found the track that's got the message in it--Ochi, right? The problem is, I don't know where to place the spaces--the slashes that go in Morse code. Or am I on the wrong track?

I assumed the notes with the bass underneath were dashes, and the rest dots...

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#83 Post by mikey » Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:03 pm

PyTom >> I think I get it now. Though there are a lot of small... tidbits are they called? in addition to the easter eggs then. Like Ochi's name... and its meaning... (I think I'll just have to explain this one, *sigh*)

Sherman >> Thank you for the comments, I'm glad you're enjoying it, it's always great to hear from prople who are generally outside this community. Welcome!
Sherman wrote:I will play this again, until I unlock everything. I just know.
Oh, I need to note this, you will need to find Ending 4 to kind of... get the full story. It's what they usually call "true" ending. You'll probably recognize it when you reach it.
Sherman wrote:Please please please try to write LONGER scripts. I was left wondering "why so short!".
It's a matter of scope though, Gakuen Redux was one project that had lots of text, but generally the answer to "why so short" is because it's what we're able to do. And we're simply not able to make longer games. This game was planned to be this short from the beginning and the concept was more like that of a movie (in the sense that it should give you an experience in about 1.5 hours) rather than being a full game in the style of Kana or DC.
Sherman wrote:P.D.: I couldn't resist the temptation, and transcoded the soundtrack to MP3, tagged it and right now I'm editing presplash.png. I'm just removing the Loading messange and adding a "Original Game Soundtrack" text right behind Ori, Ochi, Onoe (BTW, which font did you use to make that text?)
If it's OK with you guys, I can seed this thing, kind of a Original Game Soundtrack, ready to upload to an iPod, iAudio, whatever (that's why I'm doing this).
Hmmm, I won't be able to speak to the composer and meet him for quite a long time - and the other thing is, there exists a high-bitrate MP3 version which we intended to use originally that has even higher quality than what's in the game. So should there be an official OST release similar to our Gakuen Redux soundtrack somewhere in the future, it would probably be best use those MP3s.

Oh, and the font, it was antialiased Palatino Linotype.


SMWhat >> OMG, congratulations!!!

Truly a big spoiler, intended for SMWhat:
The bass always marks the next letter. So whenever the bass sounds, the high tone that plays simultaneously is the first tone of a new letter. There are no spaces, so a sentencelookslikethis. Dots and dashes are both highs.

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SMWhat

#84 Post by Guest » Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:01 pm

Oh, I see!

And the message--oh, I see! That's clever!

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#85 Post by Watercolorheart » Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:17 pm

Someone please explain to me all this Morse code business before I freak out, I completely missed it D:

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#86 Post by denzil » Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:44 am

Finally had time to play it again. Got ending 5 this time :happy: :)
With ending 10 also seen this leaves me... 7 endings.
mikey wrote:Like Ochi's name... and its meaning... (I think I'll just have to explain this one, *sigh*)
I was wondering about how her name is pronounced since I saw name of the game, but had no idea idea about it being kind of easter egg. And after your first hint I was clicking like crazy at certain parts of characters faces :lol: But I think I got it now.
Just checking: it's connected to what happens to her during game and her job right? Or it just have something with you liking girls with glasses? :wink:
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#87 Post by Taleweaver » Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:08 am

@BCS:
The key to your question is ending 6. As mikey said, look at what Onoe is saying and the code she mentions.
Next, take the hint that mikey gave about the music of the game being important.
There is one piece of music that's more than just music in the soundtrack. It's rather easy to find - it's the one piece that makes the least musical sense. That's the Words of Melody. Listen to them and you'll understand.
Looks like someone got their wish in the end, eh? ^_^

Taking it all together, mikey, all I have to say that O³ is easily the most intriguing ren'ai game I've ever played. The hidden hints, like aforementioned message (I'm not going to spoil that one, ever), make it a most remarkable experience well worth the trouble of trying out all possible combinations of decisions to find all the endings. Some of the game's dramatic qualities are diminished by a few abrupt endings where literally nothing is explained; maybe Ochi's "bitch fits" should have appeared more clearly to make the player understand that Yoshiyuki cannot bear to live with her any longer. An "introduction" to ending 7 that starts with another fight between him and her could have cleared that up, in my opinion.

Aside from that, a great experience I would gladly have paid money for. (You don't happen to have an account that takes euros? ^_^)
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#88 Post by mikey » Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:06 am

denzil >> Thanks, congratulations! I'm really happy!
Ochi's name, when spoken, would get written as "***" in our language. This word literally means "eyes" and I specifically chose it because of that meaning. Later on, her "sister's" name was to begin with "o" as well, and the third girl also got an o-name. Ochi is the only one who wears glasses and also, the green eyes are important in identifying the two sisters, as it was the one thing that couldn't be hidden from the player like the hair - except for saying Ochi wears tinted contact lenses, but that would be a bit too much. The eyes operation and all, eyes are a key word in the story, so that's why. And one of the endings, Ori's "good" ending 5/9, it's called "Eyes is my love". It doesn't make real sense until you substitute Eyes for Ochi - this doesn't make sense again, as the expected statement would be Ori is my love - but it has the hidden hint at the fact that the two girls are one.
And I'm happy that the easter egg has been uncovered ^_^ Sorry for teasing you but it's so great that people were able to figure it out by themselves... :P
Actually, there are two more Words Of Melody tracks - one is pretty straightforward (it's the simplest melody of the whole soundtrack), and the second one is logically the Concert Track. But it's impossible to decipher the concert track as the notes, even though they are done in the Morihara Code, are overlapping and IMO it just can't be done - the concert track spells the very simple and probably most used love phrase of all time - it has three words and it represents Yoshiyuki's feelings to Ori, that's why it only plays when she appears. Except for Ending 4, where it plays to conclude everything.

Ochi's wish, it's actually something she feels, it's the problem that Yoshiyuki can't get to the bottom of in the beginning stages - Ochi's problem is that she loves him, but due to the Ori/Ochi split, she (although she doesn't know why) feels that he doesn't truly love her. She is at a stage when she wants a baby, feeling that she is ready, but she gets frustrated everytime she realizes that she is not really loved - and that is something she does not want for her baby, to be in a family where there would be no (or just partial) love. And so, not only is she generally more frustrated than normally, but she gets this fits as TW explained, everytime she is reminded of this fact.

And it's kind of connected to the second of the bigger easter eggs. It's kind of an extension of the things that the main WoM track says. But it's probably necessary to systematize.

And something related a bit... noticed anything about the baby? Like maybe what I wrote in a reply to Alessio... :?
Taleweaver >> And thank you for that overall summary, it really means a lot.
Taleweaver wrote:Aside from that, a great experience I would gladly have paid money for. (You don't happen to have an account that takes euros? ^_^)
I do, but I would much rather know how you managed to get that cool O3 written... with the "3" as small superscript... ^_^

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#89 Post by Alessio » Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:13 am

Anonymous wrote:I don't know...it feels as if I'm at the mercy of forces I can't possibily understand until I have sucessfully conquered them
Technically I agree it's true it's hard to predict the story's outcome based on choices I've made, but interestingly it didn't strike me as odd at all. I think it's because for me VNs such as O3 are not like adventure games (take kazoo, go to bus, play kazoo) nor dating games (give flowers to girl A, B, or C). Rather, it's a story being told and, like in real life, your choices sometimes make a difference and sometimes not. And sometimes they lead to something you didn't even think of. So, seeing the emphasis on O3's story, I can actually accept this very well. In other VNs I might not, that depends.
mikey wrote:
noticed anything about the baby? Like maybe what I wrote in a reply to Alessio... :?
Got half an idea already... but in order to check I have to find that ending again first... note to self for next game: After a successful ending, show a possible solution path for this ending. :)

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#90 Post by BlackSpider » Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:17 pm

It's been a long time since my last post on this forum. Recently though I could sense I'm still a little addicted to renai games. That's why I decided to download and play O3 :). My lemmasoft forum account hasn't been deleted yet so here goes a short review.

First an explanation of my in game choices the first time I played acting as I would in real life :). Got ending 6 with Onoe - what I wanted really. Although scenes with Ochi were great (especially love scenes) she easily spoiled all positive feelings I could develop towards her (apart from pity maybe) with her unmature behaviour. I didn't like Ori at first either, although she does have something mysterious in her (or maybe she was just shy :P) that's why I will try to "end up with her" when I decide to play the game again... When I read all the spoilers on this thread it should be easy to get that ending :P

Anyway, great writing style and amazing art. Especially the title screen is perfect (10 out of 10). Other in game CGs are good too but sometimes I felt as if everyone's head was too big when compared to the rest of their bodies. Especially with Onoe CGs. But I guess it's just the artist style. So it's ok :) Very nice menu where everything rotates a little clockwise everytime you choose an option. Nice particle animation that improves the overall image, music that you can listen for more than 5 min :P Yes it all counts. I especially like the RGB idea - Red Green Blue :). Red - Onoe, Green - Ori, Blue - Ochi. Even everything they say in game has appropriate colors... Congratulations to the whole team for making such a great game.

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