Grocery Store.

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Applegate
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Re: Grocery Store.

#16 Post by Applegate » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:20 pm

Hmmm... it fitted into the description, so I called it like that. I can also call it "effortless and undeveloped" if this makes people feel better.
Feedback is meant to help a creator locate the weaker parts of their work and know where to improve. Just saying "it's trash" doesn't fulfil this need. There's no value in coming into a thread just to state you hate the game. If people can be respectful of this, I don't see why it cannot be done here.

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Re: Grocery Store.

#17 Post by Endorphin » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:27 pm

Well, it was a question. There are some people who make games just to troll (at least in rpgmaker boards they do) so I prefer to ask first - I didn't see a strong part in the game except for the idea (and an idea is rarely bad) so I guessed that this was made like this on purpose.
If it's not than we can work on that - seeing as he already updated information there is even something to work with.
I didn't know where to start, but I see my mistake - I'll just give a list next time.
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DeShaun Johnson
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Re: Grocery Store.

#18 Post by DeShaun Johnson » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:31 pm

Applegate wrote:In case anyone is interested, someone did a Let's Play of this.
what

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Re: Grocery Store.

#19 Post by MaiMai » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:36 pm

I think the nicest thing I can say about this KN is I don't hate it. I can only dislike things that have engaged me and then argue with my sensibilities, but I can't say this really did anything for me much less inspire feelings of hatred.
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Re: Grocery Store.

#20 Post by Snow Blossom » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:13 pm

After reading all these comments, I have to say the game didn't turn out quite as bad as I expected. I'm unimpressed, yes, but more than that, I'm confused. The game's lackadaisical tone made it seem like some sort of parody... but due to the lack of perceptible meaning, I couldn't tell of what. Were John and Pat supposed to sound like they were high? What exactly was this "tearful, lonely truth" supposed to be? Was it related to the backstory stated in the game synopsis? - But then, the game itself barely addresses any of the stated backstory. If you were really aiming to move the players, it would have been better to incorporate more of the characters' backgrounds and to express their personalities.

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Re: Grocery Store.

#21 Post by DeShaun Johnson » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:14 pm

Ryouko wrote:
In a genre which has adopted as part of its label the moniker of "novel," you have suggested the idea that it should have one layer of meaning.
Yes, which is exactly why I'm disappointed. =o
The idea was nice, sure, but ideas are worth nothing if the execution isn't convincing.
And with execution I do not mean art.
Art is nice and can be used as a storytelling element, but it doesn't need to. It can be left out.
It's just that there isn't one part of this game where I could think "hey, the creator put effort into this".
The sprites were okay even though the usage was boring, the writing was a too untamed.
I played it till the end and I learned nothing - what was the moral?
That the world's a bad place? That people gang up because of their perverted thoughts? That I should stop buying frozen pizza as my family will think that I hate them?
Hm, you have all given me plenty of things to think about. I thank you sincerely for this.

Well, the thing is John is a guy who, despite all of his moral failings, is not punished in any way by the world at large. For you see, he completely gets away with his actions. In fact, it is implied they're ongoing, as he and Victory Rodriguez continue their long-term arrangement at the Grocery Store. When Victory becomes the store manager, that's when things get really hot and heavy for them.

There's a small ray of light. As anyone who's played the game knows, Annie becomes a major league baseball player despite her previously lackluster life and major trauma. She goes from being a woman buying frozen single-serving pizzas to an all-star batter who eventually shatters Barry Bonds's homerun record. Pat gets away from it all and pursues his passion, running a flower shop.

I will agree with you that there's too big of a gap between Johnathan Shrieve, genius investment banker, and John, supermarket sexual maven.

Perhaps in a future edition or Grocery Store. 2: Investment Banking I will address this.

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Re: Grocery Store.

#22 Post by Percon » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:10 pm

So raw and daring. John's internal struggles were nothing short of stifling.
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Re: Grocery Store.

#23 Post by gekiganwing » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:57 pm

Is John supposed to be sympathetic? Because, well...
...he seems to be a womanizer, a drug user, a sex offender, and a man who's ready and willing to use violence against unarmed women. Lines such as the following...

j "I said speak no more! Look at your basket. Observe. A single pizza. That means you're of the caliber of female that would have sex with my penis!"
j "And don't think I don't see those 40s. I have to thank you for that, now I don't have to buy beer for our sexy relations."

...seem to portray him as anything but sympathetic.
If he's meant to be a heroic character, then he would be a heroic comedic sociopath at best. If he's the villain of his own story, then perhaps he's an anti role model.

Do you want to create more stories about antisocial characters? If that is your intention, then what is your motivation? Are you trying to create deconstructionist fiction about characters pursuing sex? Do you just want to shock your audience? Do you aim to create catharsis through portraying the characters' violence and behavior?

I'm familiar with some stories and games in which the main character is permitted (sometimes even encouraged) to do activities which are violent / sexual crimes in real life. (For instance, my first visual novel was _Three Sisters Story_, which includes a disturbing torture scene and several optional rape scenes. Had I not known that better VNs existed in English, I would probably have given up and dismissed the entire category.) I know that this content can be a way for people to work through their stress and negative emotions. If you plan to create stories and games of this type, then it's your decision. Just keep in mind that only a few people openly admire fiction that glorifies crime.

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Re: Grocery Store.

#24 Post by Sapphi » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:35 am

I didn't actually play through this, but I watched the LP on youtube.

I have to admit, at one point I was actually in tears from laughing so hard.
I should also confess I'm a little sleep-deprived, so on a regular day you probably wouldn't have gotten that reaction out of me.
(Hey, wait a minute, sleep-deprivation IS part of my regular day... hmm...)

I am not sure what the point of this piece is, or what reaction you were aiming for. Oddly enough, although I react negatively to sexism, child molesters, and offensive "shock value" humor in general, I thought this was funny. I think part of the reason I found it funny was that it was set up like one of those comedy movies where two male friends formulate and set out to enact a ludicrous plan. When you have that set-up, you expect to laugh. Expecting you will laugh makes it more likely that you will, which is why in shows like America's Funniest Home Videos they played silly music and had Bob Saget narrate everything with a humorous grin on his face.

It's also funny to me precisely because he is glorifying all of these unthinkable crimes, and because instead of the expected negative reaction, he is met with an enthusiastic, positive one. I think there's a fancy sciencey term for this, but I don't know what it is. Anyway, the humor is derived from the contrast between the expected and the actual.
Expected wrote: Little Girl: Mommy... can I tell you something?
Mother: Sure, dear.
Little Girl: I punched a kid at school and broke his nose.
Mother: What?! Go to your room!
Actual wrote: Little Girl: Mommy... can I tell you something?
Mother: Sure, dear.
Little Girl: I punched a kid at school and broke his nose.
Mother: Awesome! I do that all the time at work!
When you aren't expecting it, the inappropriateness of the reaction can be unbearably funny.
And again, it's not that I think serious issues like child molestation, sexism, and violence are funny themselves. It's the treatment of them here. It's obvious they are bad behaviors. It is written with the expectation that the average reader of decent character will react negatively to them. But in contrast, the characters in the story are like "Great, awesome!" or at least have no moral qualms about the offensive issues. At least for me, that usually provokes laughter. (I hope that doesn't make me a bad person.)

Oh, by the way, DeShaun Johnson, "Victory Rodriguez" is a brilliant name, and I am jealous I did not think of it first.
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Re: Grocery Store.

#25 Post by gekiganwing » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:30 am

It's not often that one sees women playing professional baseball... I did a web search for "women baseball" and found a useful article that shows places and leagues where women can currently play the sport.
Sapphi wrote:It is written with the expectation that the average reader of decent character will react negatively to them. But in contrast, the characters in the story are like "Great, awesome!" or at least have no moral qualms about the offensive issues. At least for me, that usually provokes laughter.
Laughing is one reaction. Another reaction is anger and disgust. The latter usually doesn't work out well, especially if it's in reaction to a prank or a troll.

Intentionally offensive comedy is a valid category. Sometimes the humor is offensive for the sake of being offensive. But every now and then, you'll find NSFW comedy which has something to say to its audience.

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Re: Grocery Store.

#26 Post by Ishikatsu » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:42 pm

I actually found this little game pretty amusing. Sexism and violence are obviously not okay, but this is so over the top I just can´t help myself.

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Re: Grocery Store.

#27 Post by eternalwishess » Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:50 am

"Keep doing what you're doing, its so original and fresh. Don't add space ladies with dicks and shit, and use comic strips instead of girly anime styles, that'll show them.
You'll take a potato chip...
AND EAT IT."

All in all, I found this a short but amusing KN. I liked how it caught me by surprise and gave me "wtf" reactions. Although some of the explicit contents in there were probably a bit too extreme for my taste...
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Re: Grocery Store.

#28 Post by Miyuki » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:57 pm

I thought this game was amusing. I understand that it can make people offended and that it deals with sensitive material, but the way it was written was not in such a way as to make sense.

The very description that advertises the game leads to an expectation of ridiculousness from being a wealthy man to living under a bridge. The fact that the game makes nearly no mention of the backstory introduced in the description helps to set this story up as one that cannot be taken seriously.

I thought it was really funny. I laughed a lot and I recommend watching the LP because the awkwardness of his narration only adds to the situation.

To me, it's not too different from Stop! In the Name of Love in that its charm is in its lack of quality. I'm not sure I'd play it again, but I don't think I wasted my time watching the video and I added it to my favorites..

PS Maybe people would be more understanding of the game if it had [comedy] in the subject.

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