Magical Boutique

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mikey
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Re: Magical Boutique

#241 Post by mikey » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:13 am

monele wrote:Herbal world : what did you think of mineral and fauna gathering? Was it still fit?
Yes.

The point I wanted to make is that there is only one Magical Boutique - from my point of view there is no need for a sequel, unless you want to do remake the game (but that's not a sequel), or make a sequel that was more or less identical to the original, with just minor tweaks.

I've often wondered why there is a Narcissu 2 - all the explanations about deepeing the story and whatnot aren't good enough, simply because that game didn't need a sequel. And you know, even though the game isn't translated yet, I don't see how in the end, after I play it and let a few months pass, I won't look at it and say it is not a whole lot more than a "Resurrection Of Setsumi".

I'd just point this out - since I think that most of the sequels aren't really needed - and even those which are really justified can often have a much more appropriate name than "The Orginal II". And especially at this free fan-made level, there is simply no need to do this.

It's like (time for metaphores!) you see a Rolls-Royce hovering majestically through the streets - and you are inspired to make a car - and so you make a junkyard buggy. But instead of using the buggy to go offroad, you go to the same street as you saw the Rolls, and you want the buggy to give you the same feeling as the Rolls did when you watched it. But, have you ever considered that the Rolls looks at the hills and sometimes wishes to go offoad? But it can't, because it has nobility to preserve and etiquette to observe. Much like commercial makers who are often simply forced to make a sequel - so why would you throw away your buggy's go-anywhere ability? I know it's not as comfortable as the Rolls, but it's a different world, really. So sequels... well, they are okay, but if you decide to do one, you have to know you're not limiting yourself more than you should be.

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Re: Magical Boutique

#242 Post by monele » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:35 am

Midnighticequeen : I'm calm :p. Thanks :)

Vatina : Rethinking about it, I'm actually surprised people think it's quiet and "no danger" when a few things that happen can be pretty bad (not spoiling, but I expect those who played to guess what I'm referring to).

I'm also conscious that many people would expect the gameplay to stay, but it's really my tastes that have changed ^^;... That and the realization I didn't even grasp what I created ^^;...

mikey : I know you don't like sequels much ^^;... and here are my thoughts on this : if I'm going to make a game that has the same mood as MagBou, the same characters as MagBou and the same theme as MagBou (managing a shop), "MagBou II" wouldn't be too far fetched. On the other hand, if I do end up making a 2D side scrolling shooter, it might end up with a different name ;). The current side project will probably end up with "MagBou" and then a subtitle, because it's not really a sequel, just some sort of "Side Story" thing.

As for the will to make a sequel, it's not out of lazyness or wanting to build upon a previous success... it's really because I have still a lot of things to say about the MagBou setting. Do you know much about Dalmaryon's grand-father, the previous owner? What about the rest of the family? Ever been curious about Pom's ears? Wanna know about Framboise's goals?

Remember MagBou was really MagBou 0.1, compared to what I envisioned it being. There was a lot left unsaid, and that's the kind of thing eating me from inside. Putting all this in another project just wouldn't work... these things now belong to each character and to no other.

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Re: Magical Boutique

#243 Post by mikey » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:58 am

monele wrote:As for the will to make a sequel, it's not out of lazyness or wanting to build upon a previous success... it's really because I have still a lot of things to say about the MagBou setting. Do you know much about Dalmaryon's grand-father, the previous owner? What about the rest of the family? Ever been curious about Pom's ears? Wanna know about Framboise's goals?

Remember MagBou was really MagBou 0.1, compared to what I envisioned it being. There was a lot left unsaid, and that's the kind of thing eating me from inside. Putting all this in another project just wouldn't work... these things now belong to each character and to no other.
As a maker, I understand. But there are two viewpoints - you as the maker might have well released 0.1, but I as the player have treated it as 1.0 - meaning in my head I rounded up the things - I assumed that things that weren't told are up to me to think about and imagine. Do I want to know about the history of the world? Well, not really. Wasn't Framboise so charming because you didn't see her goals on a silver plate? Besides, any work of fiction could justify a sequel by "don't you want more details?". I didn't assume there was going to be a sequel, why should I? The game you released had an atmosphere and it was in its way well rounded - at least to where I got - so unless there was some gaping hole in the story that was very obviously annoying, then I still don't see a reason *as a player*. And, as a player, if you make MagBou2, maybe the newly revealed details will conflict with what I imagined - they definitely won't conflict with your vision for the game, but they may with mine. So that would be the consideration.

In reality though, I suppose people are used to sequels, so that above philosophical paragraph won't really apply. It's most probably going to be (sarcasm not meant personally) something like "Whee, more of Framboise". This is the comfort zone of sequels, people know what to expect, you generally enrich their experiences, they are already in tune with what's to come, so I don't think it will do any damage to the popularity or enjoyment of players who are either new, or have played the orginal. I admit I do like to look at it from that angle in the first paragraph and surely this will be a cosmetic scratch on the MagBou face that I know, but in the end with all the new goodies, it will soon be forgotten.

But I treat all sequels like this - if you make a sequel, you automatically borrow something from the original, so that its atmosphere is no longer unique and only to be found in there - in fact you could say you take something away from the original. And this would also be my criticism on Narcissu's sequel - by doing it, you take away the uniqueness of its original. Whether the sequel will live up to the expectations and is justified is a completely different discussion. But with a sequel you always also impact the original - and it's not impossible that people who appreciated the most delicate shades of the atmosphere of the original, maybe liked it *because* of those little things, will have those taken away now.

Well, this isn't specifically MagBou now, just a general comment, but there I said it. :)

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Re: Magical Boutique

#244 Post by monele » Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:19 pm

I totally understand that first paragraph. Who hasn't seen a favorite movie or series ruined by a one too many season or sequel? I know many people who said Indy IV ruined it for them... while some will say only the first Batman movie was any good, etc... Same thing for series that piled on seasons after seasons when they should have stopped at the second or third one... sometimes even the first.
Yet, I also see how giddy I am when I hear about my favourite worlds being extended. Slayers Revolution has just started airing and I'm excited about it. I'll be excited when I get to see the next Stargate season, too. And I *was* excited about Indy IV. Now, I'm scared to watch it because of all the negative comments ^^;... So yeah, I both understand the fear of ruining a perfectly fine experience by adding something that doesn't live up to it... but I also understand the thrill of getting to experience a little bit more of things you really enjoyed :)

Still according to this first paragraph, would it be okay to make another game with the same no danger mood?... or would that also be too sequel-like? Is it just a matter of naming? The setting? The characters? The theme? What about some stories that take place in the same universe, but way later, where you see original protagonists aged a lot and now acting as veterans, for example?

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Re: Magical Boutique

#245 Post by mikey » Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:35 pm

Well, I did say this was my opinion - in fact it's probably impossible to say what is the right way - I will LONG for every new episode/sequel of some series, and some movies I wish would stay the way they were - no sequels. It's really just as individual as the person. Not to completely invalidate my thoughts above, but (after reading my reply above, maybe it was a bit pushy) it shouldn't stop you from doing what you feel is right, that's even more important.

So, to sum it up, right now, I'm in a mood to say that MB is good the way it is (and my reasoning for that would be above). You can simply add me to the fans that want either something different, or just a refinement of the existing MB - what I wouldn't like is "MB with added RPG". So that's my personal opinion.

PS: I liked Indy IV, it was as you would expect - light action, light comedy, light movie. I didn't scrutinize it against the previous ones, and that was a good thing to do. So, heh, just proves the point that everyone is different.

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Re: Magical Boutique

#246 Post by musical74 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:33 pm

Wow....miss a day and all sorts of comments on this wondrous game!

AS far as what worked for me and what wouldn't...I'd agree with mikey on no fighting. Adventure? Sure, but....the lack of fighting is part of what made MagBou so much fun. The characters were all great, the managing side was good....it was FUN without the fighting :)

Lessee as far as *panic mode* for the game goes...
30 weak heal, 15 fox's cunning, and 30 weak cure in one day, exhausting my supply of both fox's cunning and weak cure at the same time
count?

I think if you were expand things a bit as far as locations and potions and characters <have a few more *special visitors* or something> that's really all I'd need to be happy with a sequel...I like MagBou as it now :D
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Re: Magical Boutique

#247 Post by maselphie » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:56 pm

Great game! I was thoroughly challenged and was really eager to please customers. I've played the game through twice, since it ended rather abruptly for me the first time ... because I was enjoying it and all of sudden everyone left. :(

Well, the game mechanics are there ... I would've liked at least a few more weeks with the shop open again at the end. Just because I liked it so much. ^^;
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Re: Magical Boutique

#248 Post by monele » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:04 am

Eh, yeah, that's called reaching the ending ;). Sorry it came so fast for you ^^;. I'm glad you enjoyed it and actually go through it again ^_^.
From what you say, it seems like a "free" mode might have been interesting. But without any quest nor any items to discover, I don't know how long it would stay fun.

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Re: Magical Boutique

#249 Post by maselphie » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:34 am

An "endless" shop feature was exactly what I think this game needs. There's many slots for staff members, wacky ingredients yet to be used ... if nothing else, the best remedy to cure monotony in such an endless feature is having high priced items for sale in town. Some people (like me) don't mind grinding when there is some goal in mind. I think that's how MMORPGs do so well, and why sim games in general work. We just want to see numbers increase. =P To be frank, I was buckled down into making potions and was a little distracted by the story events at first. "Yeah, yeah ... less yap, more brew! Did you SEE the line of customers today?" Shame on me. xD

I'm going to agree that this episode of the game is perfectly fine how it is, and I'd just suggest just trying to make it longer; items to buy, getting new recipes, ability to hire generic work, or just the endless mode. I personally don't need an elaborate side-plot, like the sick soldiers, to keep me interested in what you have already, if that's what's slowing you down. ^^
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Re: Magical Boutique

#250 Post by monele » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:13 am

Well, I don't really like grinding, and thus mmorpgs, but I can understand the thrill (what I don't like is when it's *all the time*), and this is probably why I never tried to have generic stuff in there. If there was going to be a new potion, it had to make sense and be associated with a quest... Same thing with ingredients who at least had to be linked to a recipe. And thus, the game parts are as numerous as the quests... not very :).
Again, about generic workers, this was banned early on because I was sick of faceless units in so many games. I wanted a "family" feel... one where you know your team, where they have feelings and stuff. Morale did it, but there was supposed to be a lot more things than that : inter-relationships, up to love relationships, preferences for places to work at, and what kind of work (Pom can gather but isn't fond of it, for example). As for statistic elements, there was supposed to be schools to "upgrade" your workers (faster than getting the regular XP), lots of items to help them work (vehicles, potions, equipment), etc...

But all this made for a HUGE project, and I'm still glad DaFool went to me and said "hey, you have enough for something fun, right there" so that I went and finished it. Might be no MagBou otherwise ^^;

And finally, a mini-rant : while I still love coding objects and systems (like I did for my generic RPG fighting system in Python), I've learned to *hate* doing interfaces. Placing elements is not easy, you have to take the screen size into account or deal with scrolling panels (or multipage systems)... and just giving a visual interface adds a ton of new coding problems (the interface must change to reflect user actions and has to prevent a *lot* of possible mistakes and unexpected uses).
This makes it hard to create a game since I'll have the core, but can't bear putting it into shape ^^;... (if any fellow coder has any tips on this... I'm interested).

Oh... and what's really slowing me down is mostly... not-working-on-it ^^;. I don't want to disappoint but I'm not actively working on a statistical sequel right now. Nor am I even working on a story-based sequel. What I have so far is a very little kinetic novel MagBou sub-project which is lacking only a few drawings to get a green light (and I'm distracted by too many other things to finish it :/), and only the bare skeleton of a story-based MagBou 2 with mostly a few scenes written, but no clear game system.
But as I said many times, I *will* go back to MagBou, one way or another. It's just not right now, and I can't tell in which form it'll end up ^^;

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Re: Magical Boutique

#251 Post by monele » Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:57 pm

I was asked for an up-to-date version of Magical Boutique, so here it is :

Windows (2000, XP, Vista) : http://monele.eviscerate.net/magbou1.3.zip
Linux : http://monele.eviscerate.net/magbou1.3- ... 86.tar.bz2
Mac : http://monele.eviscerate.net/magbou1.3-mac.zip

It's version 1.3 but there's no content change. It's just updated with the latest Ren'Py version. Obviously we lose Win98 compatibility, but the MagBou website still had the 1.2 version if needed. I hope this will help the people who have problems running the game on modern OSes.

I was also asked how MagBou 2 is doing and the answer is : it's not doing anything for now ^^;.
Yeah, I've been away from VNs and the whole community for a while now because I dived into tabletop roleplaying again. So... all VN projects are on hold until I get bored of this new fad.

Final thanks to PyTom for his retrocompatibility feature in Ren'Py. It just saved my ass.

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Re: Magical Boutique

#252 Post by Samu-kun » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:27 pm

It looks like there's a glitch in the newest version. It crashed when I was trying to buy a chariot.

Code: Select all

I'm sorry, but an exception occured while executing your Ren'Py
script.

Exception: Not a displayable: None

While running game code:
 - script call at line 143 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/gameloop.rpy
 - script at line 431 of D:\Jeux\renpy-6.9.0\magbou/game/mmenu.rpy
 - python at line 436 of D:\Jeux\renpy-6.9.0\magbou/game/mmenu.rpy.
 - python at line 35 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy.
 - python at line 12 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy.

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\bootstrap.py", line 256, in bootstrap
  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\main.py", line 309, in main
  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\main.py", line 92, in run
  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\execution.py", line 217, in run
  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\ast.py", line 560, in execute
  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\python.py", line 911, in py_exec_bytecode
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-6.9.0\magbou/game/mmenu.rpy", line 436, in <module>
  File "D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy", line 35, in displayProdInfo
  File "D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy", line 12, in displayProduct
  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\ui.py", line 282, in image
  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\ui.py", line 65, in add
  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\easy.py", line 79, in displayable
Exception: Not a displayable: None

While running game code:
 - script call at line 143 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/gameloop.rpy
 - script at line 431 of D:\Jeux\renpy-6.9.0\magbou/game/mmenu.rpy
 - python at line 436 of D:\Jeux\renpy-6.9.0\magbou/game/mmenu.rpy.
 - python at line 35 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy.
 - python at line 12 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy.

Ren'Py Version: Ren'Py 6.9.0h

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Re: Magical Boutique

#253 Post by Samu-kun » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:28 pm

And I can confirm that it also crashes when I try to buy an extra shelf.

Code: Select all

I'm sorry, but an exception occured while executing your Ren'Py
script.

Exception: Not a displayable: None

While running game code:
 - script call at line 143 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/gameloop.rpy
 - script at line 431 of D:\Jeux\renpy-6.9.0\magbou/game/mmenu.rpy
 - python at line 436 of D:\Jeux\renpy-6.9.0\magbou/game/mmenu.rpy.
 - python at line 35 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy.
 - python at line 12 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy.

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\bootstrap.py", line 256, in bootstrap
  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\main.py", line 309, in main
  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\main.py", line 92, in run
  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\execution.py", line 217, in run
  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\ast.py", line 560, in execute
  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\python.py", line 911, in py_exec_bytecode
  File "D:\Jeux\renpy-6.9.0\magbou/game/mmenu.rpy", line 436, in <module>
  File "D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy", line 35, in displayProdInfo
  File "D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy", line 12, in displayProduct
  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\ui.py", line 282, in image
  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\ui.py", line 65, in add
  File "C:\Users\poochy00k9.Wumbo-PC\Downloads\magbou1.3\magbou1.3\renpy\easy.py", line 79, in displayable
Exception: Not a displayable: None

While running game code:
 - script call at line 143 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/gameloop.rpy
 - script at line 431 of D:\Jeux\renpy-6.9.0\magbou/game/mmenu.rpy
 - python at line 436 of D:\Jeux\renpy-6.9.0\magbou/game/mmenu.rpy.
 - python at line 35 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy.
 - python at line 12 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy.

Ren'Py Version: Ren'Py 6.9.0h

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Re: Magical Boutique

#254 Post by monele » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:43 am

Erg... I've had that very bug for something not directly related. Something changed in recent versions and made Ren'Py more strict with some displayable functions apparently. I'll have to look into it :/. Thanks for reporting it!

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Re: Magical Boutique

#255 Post by Guest » Thu May 21, 2009 12:46 pm

Another instance of the crash happening with the merchant

Code: Select all

    I'm sorry, but an exception occured while executing your Ren'Py
    script.

    Exception: Not a displayable: None

    While running game code:
     - script call at line 143 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/gameloop.rpy
     - script at line 431 of D:\Jeux\renpy-6.9.0\magbou/game/mmenu.rpy
     - python at line 436 of D:\Jeux\renpy-6.9.0\magbou/game/mmenu.rpy.
     - python at line 35 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy.
     - python at line 12 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy.

    -- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

      File "/Users/Golden_Bear/Desktop/magbou1.3-mac/renpy/bootstrap.py", line 256, in bootstrap
      File "/Users/Golden_Bear/Desktop/magbou1.3-mac/renpy/main.py", line 309, in main
      File "/Users/Golden_Bear/Desktop/magbou1.3-mac/renpy/main.py", line 92, in run
      File "/Users/Golden_Bear/Desktop/magbou1.3-mac/renpy/execution.py", line 217, in run
      File "/Users/Golden_Bear/Desktop/magbou1.3-mac/renpy/ast.py", line 560, in execute
      File "/Users/Golden_Bear/Desktop/magbou1.3-mac/renpy/python.py", line 911, in py_exec_bytecode
      File "D:\Jeux\renpy-6.9.0\magbou/game/mmenu.rpy", line 436, in <module>
      File "D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy", line 35, in displayProdInfo
      File "D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy", line 12, in displayProduct
      File "/Users/Golden_Bear/Desktop/magbou1.3-mac/renpy/ui.py", line 282, in image
      File "/Users/Golden_Bear/Desktop/magbou1.3-mac/renpy/ui.py", line 65, in add
      File "/Users/Golden_Bear/Desktop/magbou1.3-mac/renpy/easy.py", line 79, in displayable
    Exception: Not a displayable: None

    While running game code:
     - script call at line 143 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/gameloop.rpy
     - script at line 431 of D:\Jeux\renpy-6.9.0\magbou/game/mmenu.rpy
     - python at line 436 of D:\Jeux\renpy-6.9.0\magbou/game/mmenu.rpy.
     - python at line 35 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy.
     - python at line 12 of D:\Jeux\MagicalBoutique\magbou/game/merchantinterface.rpy.

    Ren'Py Version: Ren'Py 6.9.0h

Perhaps upgrading to 6.9.2 would be simple solution (haven't tested)?

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