MorningStar

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Jake
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#91 Post by Jake »

Sailor Kitty wrote:The program could not be correctly initziased (0xc0000135)
click OK to end the program.
That doesn't sound good...

Firstly, make sure you have the .NET 1.1 framework installed, since the game is a .NET executable, you need the framework to run it. I only just realised that we'd still failed to mention this requirement on the game site... :(


Other than that:

I know of at least one thing which causes an error like this - were you running it from a network share? Fice and I found out the hard way the other day that .NET throws an error a bit like this when it tries to load a non-.NET DLL (like the one the OpenGL bindings are implemented in) from a remote location...

Other things to check: did you preserve the folder structure when you unzipped it? That is, are there 'music', 'save' and 'sound' folders underneath the game folder, or are all the files in the one place? When it crashes, does it show a window first, or just pop the error message up?



EDIT: Also, I just uploaded the R7 patch - again, just extract into game directory - to fix the continuity problem chronoluminaire noticed.
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Sailor Kitty
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#92 Post by Sailor Kitty »

The "morningstar_release" folder has the folders "Music" and "Sound" in it.

I only get a popup.

WTF is Net.1.1!?

Sorry, Not much of a programmer here. Could you please explain Net?

I installed it on my laptop PC.
script is 85% done.
Title is now "Running through water"
and will hopefully stay that way.
Need a poem/lyric?
I'll write one for ya!
http://blog.sanriotown.com/sailorkitty_:hellokitty.com

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#93 Post by Jake »

Sailor Kitty wrote: WTF is Net.1.1!?

Sorry, Not much of a programmer here. Could you please explain Net?
.NET is a Microsoft technology that's supposed to make windows apps marginally more portable and a lot more 'safe' than they used to be, and (more to the point from the programmer's point of view) is a lot more 'object-oriented' than previous methods. The upside is that it's much easier to write a nice clean .NET app than it is a nice clean pre-.NET C++/MFC/whatever app; the downside is that you need to download and install the runtime to make it run:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... laylang=en

You'll only need to download the runtime once to run any .NET 1.1 apps. I keep forgetting to mention it as a requirement on things like game website pages 'cause it's been a recommended - if not a critical - update for WinXP for years, and I work with it every day so I'm used to it just being there. :/
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Vachiom
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#94 Post by Vachiom »

This game seems like it has a lot of potential. But unfortunately, I can't comment on it since I can't get past day five. The game keeps blue-screening my computer a few minutes into the combat then (and I'm not running ME here; BSoD's have been nigh-nonexistent in the three years I've had this machine). I went back and started over to see if it was potentially an issue with the combat on that day, but it's doing it in the earlier combat as well, now.

Which is really a shame, since the game is pretty good so far, and judging by the comments I've read here, there's a lot more to it.

I will add one thing to the talk of the battle system -- forced failures aren't fun. I completely understand the idea behind losing the first few battles (indeed, that's refreshingly realistic when compared to the usual "Hay I just gots powers and now I cen beats people who've dun this all their lief!"). But aside from some "You've lasted longer than I expected you to" comments in the first battle, it doesn't seem like you're accomplishing anything. There's no indication of getting better with the system or Hikari getting better other than you (as the player) seeing whether or not you're lasting longer or taking out more of the opponents' HP. And with the total of 2.5 battles I've been able to see, even that's suspect.

It's pretty frustrating to be doing everything 'right' -- noticing that they're using EM attacks almost exclusively and continually putting up Force shields, using your own EM attacks against their Gravity shields, etc. -- and still losing horribly simply because all it takes is for them to switch to Gravity attacks once or twice on you and you're out. That is, you "out strategize" them most of the time, but they still win. I'm playing it on Normal mode, so I expected it, but it's still annoying since it's hard to tell if you're doing something wrong or if you just have no chance at all.

(Not to mention that I did notice that shields tend to go up before attacks, but lost the second battle because I banked on that and both opponents got elemental attacks in on me before my shield went up and, well, that's death right there. And in the first battle I actually managed to get one girl's HP down to the 40's, but then took an EM hit to a Force shield that still did 20+ damage to me and killed me right there. That shield had been weakened by a physical attack earlier, I guess, but it still seemed too high. :/)

Perhaps you could have it so that you can 'win' by lasting a certain amount of time or taking down a certain amount of their HP. You'll still lose the battle itself, but if you can manage to accomplish that the teacher and/or the students will talk about how well you did or how quickly you've improved, or something. Kind of like what happens in that first battle, but also in converstations after the battle itself. Or having Hikari talk about how she still hasn't won, but possibly getting reassured that it's normal would also work. The idea being to give some indication that you're using the system properly, so that you at least know you're getting somewhere. That way you aren't running all over the place trying to figure out what combination of moves and matchups are good when you already have something that works pretty well. It would also help take the edge off of continually losing, and give some clue as to "How long is it supposed to take until I can actually win one of these?".

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#95 Post by monele »

That's a good idea. Little hints after each fight, either telling you're doing well or helping you with tips and stuff?
I really think I played it on easy mode because I really had it smooth all the time >.>.. If "normal" is harder than easy, oh dear ^^;...
It might be nice to have a faster levelupping too, maybe? Losing once or twice might be okay... but after that, you start wondering about your ability... or no, you just start questioning the game's fun factor ^^;

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#96 Post by Ignosco »

I really enjoyed this, there's a lot of depth in the game, combat and storywise.
I played it on easy (should probably have tried normal), and won the first fight, I think I lost the day 3 one (and reloaded :oops:). After the first week, when Hikari has a power level equal to the others the fights became straightforward. The AI does a fairly good job of changing the shields and attacks around but could be a little more unpredictable and sometimes they keep repeating the same attacks which are weak against your shields. The biggest weakness of the AI is splitting the attack between the two Venuses. It was only because of that factor that I was able to win the first few fights because of how the training ended after eliminating one opposing Venus. (Does the AI focus on one Venus on normal difficulty?)

By the end of the game, I was only using focus, the level 1 shield and level 1 attack and occasionally the level 1 combined shield - I found the higher level attacks a bit underpowered for their cost.

I ended up pairing with Sakura, but all of the Venuses were well developed characters and there was a nice sense of mystery and romance in the overall plot - it's definitely got good replay value. Thie biggest anti-replay factor is that 1 playthrough takes a long time, because of the high MA's of the Venuses - and as well designed as the combat system is, it still gets a little tedious at times (it would be good if there was a zero animation option).

Occasionally the conversations repeated (the Sachiko meet at the fountain one or the Naoko conversations) or there were some continuity errors (with Miyako in the library I think one of the conversations implied we hadn't been in there together, when I had met her several times)... I just reloaded around them in case they might have created an error.

Does choosing whether or not to 'unplug' the mausoleum affect the ending you get?

EDIT: Sorry, I realised I was playing with patch 6 and not 7 - so any of the continuity errors I got were probably because of that.
Congratulations :D

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#97 Post by Jake »

Ignosco wrote:I really enjoyed this, there's a lot of depth in the game, combat and storywise.
Glad you liked it! And thanks for the praise! ;-)
Ignosco wrote:
The biggest weakness of the AI is splitting the attack between the two Venuses. It was only because of that factor that I was able to win the first few fights because of how the training ended after eliminating one opposing Venus. (Does the AI focus on one Venus on normal difficulty?)
Kind-of yes - IIRC, essentially, the AI chooses one target more than the other, weighted by how much MA they hvae left, so you get picked on more in normal-hard 'cause you start out with that much less MA... but it's certainly true that the AI isn't fantastically strong.
Ignosco wrote: (it would be good if there was a zero animation option).
That's a good idea, yeah... although hopefully making the combat more involving would also help, if it kept you thinking about it for longer through the game.
Ignosco wrote:
Does choosing whether or not to 'unplug' the mausoleum affect the ending you get?
Kind of. It's more that it removes the possibility of getting some of the endings.
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Relle

#98 Post by Relle »

Bit a continuity problem...
I met Miyako at the fountain, we went to investigate the medical facility about the science of meta, Natsuki caught us and yelled at us, etc...But, the next day on the way to lessons Miyako stops me and asks why I didn't show up to meet her.

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#99 Post by Sailor Kitty »

Could anybody give me a few hints? We found the maosolosuem and got out but i dont know what to do.
script is 85% done.
Title is now "Running through water"
and will hopefully stay that way.
Need a poem/lyric?
I'll write one for ya!
http://blog.sanriotown.com/sailorkitty_:hellokitty.com

Jake
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#100 Post by Jake »

Relle wrote:Bit a continuity problem...
Did you apply the latest patch from the game website? That should fix that problem...
Sailor Kitty wrote:Could anybody give me a few hints? We found the maosolosuem and got out but i dont know what to do.
What do you mean by "don't know what to do"? Is there a particular choice you're confused by?
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Sailor Kitty
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#101 Post by Sailor Kitty »

I mean, what do i do to get the story to flow on?
where do i go?
script is 85% done.
Title is now "Running through water"
and will hopefully stay that way.
Need a poem/lyric?
I'll write one for ya!
http://blog.sanriotown.com/sailorkitty_:hellokitty.com

Jake
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#102 Post by Jake »

Sailor Kitty wrote:I mean, what do i do to get the story to flow on?
where do i go?
Well, the story continues to come in events here and there, really - keep going to class, meeting people or whatever you were doing before...
There's no single 'right path' through the game, in that respect; you'll get most of the same core story whichever way you play through.
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Mr. E
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#103 Post by Mr. E »

Ok, I've finished playing (after going on a Morning star marathon ) and I have many praises and many complaints as well, but I'd like to commend you for creating an intresting game that had me hooked until the ending!
Overall, I liked the game ( the fact that I've been playing it for the last four or five hours proves that ), BUT there are a few qualms I have about it.
My major complaint is the battle system. I am actually a fairly experienced RPG player so I won almost every single battle on "easy" mode. I also thought it was very well-planned and original, but it had one MAIN flaw. It was too repetitive. After all, think about it: You fight three days per week, that's twelve battles all in all
( about 18-19 including the ones when you have to save someone from being kidnaped by the puppets and the final battles and graduation ceremony )
that is a respectable number. And the fights take a long time, because of the shield system and the fair quantity of HP the characters have ( They usually have 160, that would mean more less 7 rounds IF they had no shields and did not attack. The battles can easily take 15 rounds in normal cicrcunstances ). AND the number of partners/enemies is limited (although this IS a NaNoRenO game. I'm not complaining about the character quantity, but it's another factor that makes the battles extra-repetitive ). By the time of the graduation ceremony I was screaming "Enough already!" and splitting my hair. Even the best game, with the shiniest graphics would become irritating in these circunstances.
But the battle system IS also one of the high points of the game. The dating game/RPG combination definitively should be repeated more often. The shield system and the YP acumulating was also ingenious, forcing strategy on the player's part. The graphics were good and the difficulty was just right I think ( I tremble to think how normal difficulty would be, but I think I'd be able to handle it, despite having to load the game a bit more often ).
The fact that you chose who you would pair up with and that you could end up fighting your own partner was also intresting. You could insert a few more short phrases spoken by the characters, like in the first battle. They add a heck of an atmosphere ( although overusing that would also be VERY bad, risking further repetitiveness. ) I agree with everybody that the higher-level spells aren't worth the YP, although I haven't tested the top level ones.
Yay! Hikari is one of the strongest characters in the whole game! That is actually a good move, throwing a character that is initially weaker than the others, but that is in fact VERY powerful. It also gives the player's initially wonded ego a huge boost! :D
I must praise the way you guys interwined the battles with the rest of the game's story and scenario. It's incredibly rare to see an RPG game about a magic warrior's school, and quite innovative. I also commend the unusual element names, they made it initially hard to remember which one was stronger against which, but it soon became automatic as the battles progressed.
Oh, and send my regards to the programmer of the game ( Ficedula, right? ) Coding all that from scratch must have been horribly difficult. I mean, Ren'Py was created about two years ago and they STILL find bugs, so I guess the bugs in the system were pretty inevitable. He still did a good job, though, so kudos for him.
Oh, and one more complaint about the repetitiveness of the battle system: IT MAKES IT VERY HARD TO REPLAY IT! I WANT TO REACH OTHER ENDINGS, BUT IT WILL TAKE FOREVER! *Sigh, pant, choke*

And here goes my list of sugestions for the battle system change:

- HALVE all character's HP. Everyone, Hikari, the students, the puppets. The final boss (the male Venus. I forgot his name...) may retain a higher percentage of his HP if you wish though. This will make the battles quicker, and therefore less repetitive. It also won't change the difficulty of the game.
- Eliminate the "defense" command. It's useless ( although if Kasumi's puppet didn't defend all the time, I would probably have been in serious trouble... )
- You could make the "attack" comand hurt a LOT more (about the same as a 1st level spell) BUT cause absoulutely no harm on any shield. Also make it as slow as the spells. That will make the attack command seem more of a gamble ( If the oponent will raise her shield or not ), and a lot less useless. The no-YP cost by itself doesn't justify the incredibly low power of this move.
- Either remove the higher level spells from the menu, or increase their power/lower their cost. Of course, you should be carefull if you follow my previous advice, since powerfull moves and low HP make for very random and fickle battles. Balancing is the key.

Now, about the story:
The idea was intresting and well-executed. The random encounters at the end of the day were a bit confusing, but nothing serious and the pace of the plot was very good. You began with a "straightforward" school dating game with an RPG twist, but then small elements started popping up here and there, and before you know it there is a whole plot going on! It didn't feel rushed and set a very good atmosphere for the second half of the game. Only two things seem jarring in it:
1- The graduation ceremony and tests that show up AFTER the final battle were a step backwards pacing-wise. I can understand it would be hard to put that sequence before the male Venus' attack but you see... The battle with him is the CLIMAX of the game. It's almost epic, in it's own right and the player has been preparing for it ever since the beginning of the game. The fight and tests that come after that battle felt very anti-climatic, and were more of a chore than actually emotion-inspiring. If you already beat a mega-powerful warrior why should you be afraid of a couple of friends you've been fighting for some time, by now? You understand? It breaks the mood. I also felt that the only ending I got felt a tad bittersweet (which wasn't any problem at all :) ) and a little short... :( But I suspect there are better endings (which makes me REALLY want to replay it... but see above.)
2- The male Venus' personality isn't shown very well. His motivations, or even the fact he existed (at least not until he actually shows up!) Maybe forshadowing a bit about him as well would be good (although you'd have to be careful so that the player doesn't hear about him and say "Ah! That's the one causing all this mess. It's obvious!") Again, it's probably the fault of the path I went into, and I'm guessing there are a few others that would explain more...

The girls were ok. Some of them followed some kind of stereotype, but none of them were flat and, as far as I could see, all them were pretty well fleshed out, usually having some twist or more depth than the usual stereotype character. There were also some very good... moments. :twisted: Ahem. *fingers collar nervously* but none of them felt wrong and you dealt with them well. There were many sweet moments too. :)
The graphics were extremely well-done. Especially considering it's a NaNoRenO game! I'm really impressed. The quantity of characters and all the different poses! It's definitively an accomplishment.
The music was good, and fairly varied, what with the battle and everything, so that it didn't feel repetitive. I would only like to mention that the screaming (when the attack happens) would probably sound better if played only once (maybe followed by some fast-paced music). The screaming looping again and again felt strange and spoiled a bit of the mood in that extremely climatic event.

All in all a very good game. A pioneer in it's genre and an intresting proof of what mixing game genres can achieve. There were A LOT of bad things that could have happened to it and didn't. It didn't have a sucky story and it didn't feel like a dating game with an RPG attached to it. It had good music, good graphics, a nice amount of freedom and deserves due praise for all these things.

Mind you, I may have been a bit overly critical in this review, but I found the game quite positive, and there is always the possibility (or the probability, or even certainty... :? ) that I'm wrong in one or more of these things. :wink:

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#104 Post by monele »

Mr. E brings a lot of good points ^^... Mmm.. is there any chance there will be a "fixed" release of the game?... I'd really like to play it through at least once but I keep thinking of the fights and all my resolve goes away ^^;...

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#105 Post by DaFool »

It took me a long time to finish the game, but it did feel like one of the longer commercial games I played. I guess I have been more patient since I played Skies of Arcadia (which was the basis for the combat engine here I believe.)... and that game really pushed the limits of my nerves. And having battles one after another during the ending arc is expected... the whole point is that you survive the final onslaught.

Definitely may need to change the mindset or approach to playing hybrids (this game and Elven Relations)... definitely these aren't games you can do in one sitting, which we may have been conditioned to by the shorter OELVNs as well as the really short insani/dejavu games/demos. I thought that the around 6 hours I spent in total was unusual, but then Mr. E mentioned 4-5 hours... so YEAH COMMERCIAL LENGTH (my argument has been vindicated!)...so yeah. :D

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