Elven Relations - v1.1 released!

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herenvardo
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Re: Elven Relations - v1.1 released!

#151 Post by herenvardo » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:17 pm

Well, I've been playing the game for a while, so I think it's time for a review. Before playing ER, I used to rank the best games I've ever played as this:
  1. UFO: Enemy Unknown (a.k.a. XCOM: UFO Defense)
  2. World of Warcraft
  3. Blade: The Edge of Darkness (a.k.a. Severance: Blade of Darkness)
  4. Starcraft (& Starcraft: Brood War)
  5. Quake III Arena
That would be completely off-topic if it weren't for the fact there's been a recent change:
  1. UFO: Enemy Unknown
  2. World of Warcraft
  3. Elven Relations
  4. Blade: The Edge of Darkness
  5. Starcraft
I must add that 2nd and 3rd places are almost tied, being the frequent content additions the only thing capable of turning the tide towards WoW. Also, it must be noted that ER is the only free game in the list, as well as the one developed by the least ammount of people. This doesn't mean I'll stop playing Q3A (I'll never stop playing Q!!) but no doubt I'll love this game forever! (And, as a game maker myself, I now have a quality reference to try to beat :P within this genre :P )
Comparations are hateful, so let's leave 'em there. What can be said about the game itself... first of all, the characters: well thought, nice art, excellent background and side stories, and a faultless cohesion between art, personalities, and backgrounds (on the story-line sense, nothing to do with bg graphics).
About background graphics, a bit of criticism is in order: while they are quite good, it is true that there is some inconsistency (ie: some look photographic while others look hand-drawn). I guess the deadline didn't allow for more.
About the overall plot, I've seen some posts complaining about it being "too simple", "not enough", and so on; and I want to reply: you venture into the Endless Forest, where no human has set foot in centuries, you are responsible of a historic change in the relations between two races, and you even have the chance to fight against a freakin' dragon! What more can be asked for? You don't get to save the world, ok, but... while I love that kind of epic games, I'm even tired of saving worlds (my philosophy is currently on the line "let me save the whole universe, or don't care at all, but don't bother me for just a random world").
About the endings, I've not reached them all yet (I think I'm missing one Tokho's and Asilana's "just good - not best"), but the ones I've got to see are simply great: they are quite different and all of them interesting. I'm leaving my comments about Yurika's endings for the end of the post; but I want to mention something about the path to such endings, and the combat system:
(Not sure if this really spoils out anything, but just for case :P) When you're trying to get Yurika (no matter which of the endings), combats become harder by nature: she's the toughest character in the party (reflected by her 60 HP), which makes her the best candidate to take the beating from monsters. From a tactical point of view, defending Tokho makes sense, since she's the one that most damage deals (fireballing for 30 against Takuya and Yurika striking for 25) so keeping her alive maximizes the damage output of the party; and defending Asilana also makes sense, since she's capable to keep everyone else alive as long as she doesn't fall herself. To backup this, I'll just say that I only managed to get killed on one fight: the one to save the kids, trying to defend Yurika (actually, I forced a double KO when only I was standing and made a kamikaze charge to finally bring down the dragon... it was actually death when it finnished me off, since the game processed my attack before the dragon's, and I really had hope that this slight advantage could save the battle ^^' ). Anyway, I realized that, if you don't take silly choices through the game, you can afford keeping the healer and the damage-dealer alive in that combat and still can get Yurika's endings. The best I could do on that combat without wiping was to defend Yurika when I could afford it, but also defending/healing Asilana whenver the need arises. I still have to try healing instead of defending her, I think it might work.
Next thing: bugs. I played only with v.1.1.2; and I was afraid I wouldn't be able to catch any bug... congratulations for the good work (believe me, I'm quite good at crashing things XD). The only "bug" I could notice, while a really minor one, is:
During the banquet, just before you get the choice to whether get more drink or not, the text reads "I don't think it's the same as that mirall stuff from the songroom earlier, but it's good, whatever it is.". The point is that this text appears even if I declined that mirall stuff from the songroom earlier.
It's really a minor detail and, since I haven't seen anyone mentioning this on the thread, it seems to be hardly noticeable; so you should feel proud that's all what I could find in my really agressive "bug hunt".

My first attempt at Yurika's endings marked a before and an after in my opinion from the game... there were so many similarities with some real-life experiences, I couldn't help it but loved the story ^^ (btw, I ended straight in Yurika's good ending, I didn't to think twice about any of the choices). When I read that
the "semi-secret" ending 1 was actually Yurika's best, I had to find it. I didn't want to look at any of the spoilers, and only checked some non-spoiled comments about the ending... at no avail... so, there was someone that was the key to solve the "obstacle" between Takuya and Yurika... I came up with two or three hipotesis for each character, and kept "testing" them: "maybe if Makoto gets a good impression of me on the mission will want to have me on further diplomatic missions?", "maybe Asilana or the Caller himself can have some influence on Masathor and convince the king to transfer me somewhere else?", and so on... most of these were almost absurd, but could be argued for... I kept trying different paths and combiations that "could make sense" for more that 6 hours, with no rest... I had to find it!!! Then I went to have a cigarrete and let my eyes rest from the screen just before they'd have started bleeding. I went back, and took out my heaviest weapon: I took pen and paper and started keeping track of every choice I was taking, trying them in order to make sure I wasn't repeating nor missing any combination of choices... so there was I, reading carefully (and most often reading twice, just to make sure) each paragraph and basing my choices on a list of numbers on a piece of paper... luckily enough, the key choice was the first on its own menu, which meant that my "brute force" was particuarly efficient and found the answer on the first go... when she mentions him, it seems to be the answer, but I didn't want to risk and went on... anyway, a couple of lines later, her words "Kept saying he owes me a favour anytime I want it." removed any kind of doubt. Oh damn!! I had gone through this conversation the very first time I played! If I had just remembered it!! ^^; I saved (just for case, if I needed something else I could continue with my "brute force") and started a new game, taking all the obvious choices for Yurika, but then taking that choice... and at the end, the extra choice was there... the menu read just like "Yurika ending, Yurika good ending, Yurika best ending". After around 7 hours of insane and continous gameplay, I got it!!! And damn, I really loved it!!
So, I swear, this game will always have a special place in my heart ^^
BTW, if there's still someone who can't find the ending, that's what I can suggest:
Some people have mentioned that once you know the problem you have to solve, you can figure out who might have a clue about the solution... IMO, finding the answer is just a matter of being at the right place and at the right time (just like real life :P ). Another point worth mentioning is that if you were at that place on that time before you had gone through any of Yurika's paths, you could just forget about it, as it just seems like "filling chatting" until you put it in context; so it's worth checking those paths you took before trying Yurika's. And yes, as many people is suggesting, once you find it, you'll know... it's almost as if the text read "this is what you're looking for"... and if you don't see it clear enough, a couple of lines later you get an even clearer confirmation... but that only assuming you know what you're looking for: I wasted a lot of time discharding paths that I had already taken.
If you still need more help: just take each girls paths and, unless you do something extremely weird, you'll come through it. Just keep attention, and don't use skip mode.
And, to finish, I want to congratulate chronoluminaire & sunkitten for one of the best games ever made (at least from my point of view), and thank you both for making the game I've most enjoyed ever. There are games; there are good games; there are great games; and there is ER. ^^

EDIT: Damn! how could I forgot this... on the questions part at the end, when asking about a possible sequel:
Yurika wrote:It will be more likely if you tell chronoluminaire that you'd like to see one, on the Lemmasoft forums thread or the ToothyWiki page.
So... I'd love to see a sequel!! PLEASEEEEE!!!
Note: I realize that you might be busy with other projects right now, and that "forcing" a sequel would actually harm the final quality... but when you can afford it, and you feel in the mood to make it, please remember the people who would like to see it. ^^
I have failed to meet my deadlines so many times I'm not announcing my projects anymore. Whatever I'm working on, it'll be released when it is ready :P

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Re: Elven Relations - v1.1 released!

#152 Post by chronoluminaire » Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:44 pm

Wow! :oops: I feel very humbled to have caused such a reaction! Thank you very much for your overflowing praise.

I feel very privileged, particularly as I'm a big fan of Starcraft and UFO: Enemy Unknown myself (as you may have seen, I'm working on a turn-based tactical combat game as my next game!). To be in the top five games someone's ever played is an astonishing compliment, so... wow... thank you so much!
herenvardo wrote:About background graphics, a bit of criticism is in order: while they are quite good, it is true that there is some inconsistency (ie: some look photographic while others look hand-drawn). I guess the deadline didn't allow for more.
Yes, that's right. Actually, most of the 3D rendered backgrounds (the Elven City and one of the forest shots) were created by Tsunami back in 2004-5. The throne room is the only 3D background he created in 2007. Most of them I got Tsunami to create for me because I couldn't find free photos of elven cities, or even throne rooms. The original plan was for him to provide 3D backgrounds for all the scenes in the game, but he got too busy. I'm aware that this left the backgrounds with inconsistent styles, but I couldn't really think of any alternatives.
herenvardo wrote:but I want to mention something about the path to such endings, and the combat system:
(Not sure if this really spoils out anything, but just for case :P) When you're trying to get Yurika (no matter which of the endings), combats become harder by nature: she's the toughest character in the party (reflected by her 60 HP), which makes her the best candidate to take the beating from monsters. From a tactical point of view, defending Tokho makes sense, since she's the one that most damage deals (fireballing for 30 against Takuya and Yurika striking for 25) so keeping her alive maximizes the damage output of the party; and defending Asilana also makes sense, since she's capable to keep everyone else alive as long as she doesn't fall herself. To backup this, I'll just say that I only managed to get killed on one fight: the one to save the kids, trying to defend Yurika (actually, I forced a double KO when only I was standing and made a kamikaze charge to finally bring down the dragon... it was actually death when it finnished me off, since the game processed my attack before the dragon's, and I really had hope that this slight advantage could save the battle ^^' ). Anyway, I realized that, if you don't take silly choices through the game, you can afford keeping the healer and the damage-dealer alive in that combat and still can get Yurika's endings. The best I could do on that combat without wiping was to defend Yurika when I could afford it, but also defending/healing Asilana whenver the need arises. I still have to try healing instead of defending her, I think it might work.
That's a fascinating point, and I actually hadn't thought of it myself. In the dragon fight, it's certainly much easier if you defend Asilana first, since otherwise she'll be finished by the dragon's first attack. But it's still possible to do that and to include two or three defends/heals of your chosen girl, whoever she is.
herenvardo wrote:Next thing: bugs. I played only with v.1.1.2; and I was afraid I wouldn't be able to catch any bug... congratulations for the good work (believe me, I'm quite good at crashing things XD). The only "bug" I could notice, while a really minor one, is:
During the banquet, just before you get the choice to whether get more drink or not, the text reads "I don't think it's the same as that mirall stuff from the songroom earlier, but it's good, whatever it is.". The point is that this text appears even if I declined that mirall stuff from the songroom earlier.
It's really a minor detail and, since I haven't seen anyone mentioning this on the thread, it seems to be hardly noticeable; so you should feel proud that's all what I could find in my really agressive "bug hunt".
Thank you for your attention to detail! That's subtle indeed. It's not necessarily a bug, as
Takuya can probably see that it's a different drink, even without having tasted it.
herenvardo wrote:My first attempt at Yurika's endings marked a before and an after in my opinion from the game... there were so many similarities with some real-life experiences, I couldn't help it but loved the story ^^ (btw, I ended straight in Yurika's good ending, I didn't to think twice about any of the choices).
I'm so glad you enjoyed it! And well done... some people have found Yurika the hardest girl to get even the good ending for.

I was utterly delighted to read the account of your search for Ending 1... I congratulate you on finding it, and I'm impressed by your perseverance!
herenvardo wrote:
Oh damn!! I had gone through this conversation the very first time I played! If I had just remembered it!!
...
After around 7 hours of insane and continous gameplay, I got it!!! And damn, I really loved it!!
Yay! That's just how I hoped people would feel! :D
EDIT: Damn! how could I forgot this... on the questions part at the end, when asking about a possible sequel:
Yurika wrote:It will be more likely if you tell chronoluminaire that you'd like to see one, on the Lemmasoft forums thread or the ToothyWiki page.
So... I'd love to see a sequel!! PLEASEEEEE!!!
Note: I realize that you might be busy with other projects right now, and that "forcing" a sequel would actually harm the final quality... but when you can afford it, and you feel in the mood to make it, please remember the people who would like to see it. ^^
Thank you for the encouragement! You're right that I'm working on another project right now, but your post has actually reminded me of the plans I did have, and the thoughts I had had earlier about how the sequel might look. SunKitten and I discussed possibilities a couple of days ago, prompted by your comments.

Personally, I'd love to write another story in the Elven Relations world, and SunKitten has said she'd love to illustrate one. So I think it's likely to happen at some point :)

Thank you very, very much for playing, enjoying, and making such a detailed and complimentary post!
I released 3 VNs, many moons ago: Elven Relations (IntRenAiMo 2007), When I Rule The World (NaNoRenO 2005), and Cloud Fairy (the Cute Light & Fluffy Project, 2009).
More recently I designed the board game Steam Works (published in 2015), available from a local gaming store near you!

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Re: Elven Relations - v1.1 released!

#153 Post by monele » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:05 pm

Personally, I'd love to write another story in the Elven Relations world, and SunKitten has said she'd love to illustrate one. So I think it's likely to happen at some point
You know, I think I hear a crowd squeeing in delight :)

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Re: Elven Relations - v1.1 released!

#154 Post by Aashtarsrain » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:22 am

:D Yes, there's really something special about Elven Relations, and it's my favourite ren'py game in the list and that's no base flattery : everything is so enchanting that you just can't stop reading and playing it. The conversations are rewarding, the plot itself is quite unusual, long, subtle and refined, the art is so lovable and the rpg fights are impressive for a visual novel engine.
I think the only two games I really enjoyed lately are Mass Effect and Elven Relations. :shock: Thank you, man for giving us something that big ! As far as adventure / rpg ren'py games are concerned, it's a model everything else will be compared to in the years to come.

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Re: Elven Relations - v1.1 released!

#155 Post by Kikered » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:47 pm

A (belated) congrats on a second NaNoRenMo release! There isn't much to say that hasn't been said already - overall, it was a real treat to make the trip to the Endless Forest and back. I started playing it at 2:00 AM, planning on getting a feel for it before retiring for the night. Before I knew it, it was 3:30. Even then, I didn't stop until I got another ending.

My main comment is that it feels a bit... forward to aim for a particular girl from the start of the game, especially on a first play-through. It wasn't until later that I realized who'd I like to pursue, but by then, it was too late to get an ending with her. But maybe I'm just complaining about getting Ending 8 first. ^^;

The hint for the Ending 1 definitely helped out a lot. It took a bit of remembering before things clicked, but it was certainly worth it. However, I have to admit that I was most partial towards Tohko's path...
...I started out feeling really bad for the things that Takuya did in the past and acted with due consideration towards her on my first play-through. I grew to like her more towards the latter half of the game, and their moment on the elfway was particularly touching. =^^= Unfortunately, the decision to go with Kei at the river cost me an ending with her. T.T
On a side note, some of the music reminded me of Phantasy Star Online for some reason...

Thanks for bringing us another great game, chronoluminaire and SunKitten!
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Re: Elven Relations - v1.1 released!

#156 Post by Nebi » Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:44 pm

I'm getting an error message when I try to click on the link to download it. The page reads, "404 Not Found" and:

"The requested URL /ElvenRelations/ElvenRelations1.1.2-mac.zip was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request."


Any thoughts? I was trying to download the Mac version by the way.

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Re: Elven Relations - v1.1 released!

#157 Post by chronoluminaire » Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:05 pm

Thank you very much for the kind words, Aashtarsrain and Kikered!
Kikered wrote:My main comment is that it feels a bit... forward to aim for a particular girl from the start of the game, especially on a first play-through. It wasn't until later that I realized who'd I like to pursue, but by then, it was too late to get an ending with her. But maybe I'm just complaining about getting Ending 8 first. ^^;
Heh. This is an interesting point. I do know very much what you mean. A lot of ren'ai games do that, though. I think particularly of Casual Romance Club, which explicitly says the title club is for meeting girls casually and trying out romance with several girls. But if you want to get a good ending with any of them, you need to completely ingore that description and focus 100% on one girl right from the start. So Elven Relations is just following in that path :)
Kikered wrote:The hint for the Ending 1 definitely helped out a lot. It took a bit of remembering before things clicked, but it was certainly worth it.
Excellent - congrats!
Kikered wrote: However, I have to admit that I was most partial towards Tohko's path...
...I started out feeling really bad for the things that Takuya did in the past and acted with due consideration towards her on my first play-through. I grew to like her more towards the latter half of the game, and their moment on the elfway was particularly touching. =^^= Unfortunately, the decision to go with Kei at the river cost me an ending with her. T.T
Aww, that's a pity. If you didn't get her best ending, I do recommend you try for it, as it kinda completes her story.

Nebi wrote:I'm getting an error message when I try to click on the link to download it. The page reads, "404 Not Found" and:

"The requested URL /ElvenRelations/ElvenRelations1.1.2-mac.zip was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request."


Any thoughts? I was trying to download the Mac version by the way.
Oops, sorry. The first post was still pointing at the out-of-date page on the sadly defunct Visualnews.net mirror. I've fixed the link.
I released 3 VNs, many moons ago: Elven Relations (IntRenAiMo 2007), When I Rule The World (NaNoRenO 2005), and Cloud Fairy (the Cute Light & Fluffy Project, 2009).
More recently I designed the board game Steam Works (published in 2015), available from a local gaming store near you!

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Re: Elven Relations - v1.1 released!

#158 Post by MisterRainbow » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:29 am

Hi, I really enjoyd playing the game called Elven Relations, I have reached all endings except for Tokhno's best ending along with the main character. I really hope that you do sometime decide to make a sequel to the game Elven Relations and hopefully have it continue for each characters good or best endings only but not at the bad ending because bad ending probably means game over. Reading th Forum a hint that an other poster on here gave help me get the number 1 ending by trying to get Tohkno's best ending which is the only one I can't see to get. I try all the different ways but it still keeps eithe giving me good ending or bad ending so far I have got the best ending for Tokhno yet but I am going to keep playing unti I do. You are really good at making Visual Novel games. I hope you continue on making these games. I also enjoy which you can choose the option of having the mini-game which is the small battle part against mostly animals show realistic and some fantasy but that is what really makes the game for because it is the only game that I have ever played where you can fall in love with a girl that is from a complete different race who lives longer then humans. I wish you good luck on all your projects. I also enjoyed because I am trying to become an author using the penname above which is the username that I choose for here right now but I am still working on getting my first book all back together and then hopefully maybe then after I have it copyrighted and the I can seen it to a place where it can be proof read and then maybe down road to a place that can probably publish it.

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Re: Elven Relations - v1.1 released!

#159 Post by Ureshii » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:43 pm

Sugoi-sugoi! That's what a RenPy game should be ^_^ It's much better than even all commercial games of similar type I saw. An excellent storyline (and an excelent writing style, BTW), pleasant music, nice backgrounds... and of course vivid (and beautiful!) characters! It's probably the longest game here, yet there's not a single boring place during gameplay - it was very pity when I finished the game ^_^ Even the Asilana song - as a connoisseur of this music style (The Mill, Backmores Night etc.) I should say it's really good.
In other words, the game is really talented in all means. If there will be a sequel, it would be really good ^_^
(Got Good and Best endings for both Tohko and Asilana, and also Bad Ending, of course 8) )

PS it was really fun (and warm ^_^ ) to see Asilana and Tohko reactions and dialogues changing and new events appearing as I made more and more correct choices :wink:

PPS I know that I'm, err, not the first person who admires the game, and maybe everyone is bored with such posts already, but I had to say all this anyway, sorry ^_^

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Re: Elven Relations - v1.1 released!

#160 Post by monele » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:27 pm

I know that I'm, err, not the first person who admires the game, and maybe everyone is bored with such posts already, but I had to say all this anyway, sorry ^_^
I don't think an author ever gets bored with such positive comments ;), especially in amateurish circles. And if they do, it's probably not a good sign for their ego ^^;...

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Re: Elven Relations - v1.1 released!

#161 Post by musical74 » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:48 pm

I'll agree with monele here...

When someone tries out a game and think *WOW this is great!* the authors want to get feedback. It tells them they are doing a great job and <most likely> convinces them to continue making games. The important thing, espicially in amatuer circles like this one, is it let them know hoiw they are doing when a game is made...feedback is almost always appreciated =)
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Re: Elven Relations - v1.1 released!

#162 Post by Ureshii » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:27 am

I really hope that my opinion will be pleasing for the authors and the game fans, but I shouldn't be meddlesome, des ^_^ :wink: :)

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Re: Elven Relations - v1.1 released!

#163 Post by chronoluminaire » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:05 am

Thank you for the kind words, MisterRainbow and Ureshii! I'll pass on the compliments to SunKitten and Isa62v4.

Thanks for mentioning the bits you liked, Ureshii. I'm delighted how many people enjoyed the changing reactions and dialogue. I was worried that the river crossing might be a bit boring, and it probably was for a few people, but I'm glad you didn't find it so! As for being better than commercial games... wow :oops:

And as monele and musical74 said, it's always good to receive feedback! One of the most wonderful things about having written Elven Relations is when people come by, even months after the game was released, to say that they played it and enjoyed it. It really does make my day. Thank you for playing, and for posting! :)

And a random tidbit for you all: plans are moving ahead for the sequel :D
It won't be out for months yet, and it's still just at the initial plans level; but it's one of the two or three projects that I'm putting my creative energy into at the moment. Heehee...
I released 3 VNs, many moons ago: Elven Relations (IntRenAiMo 2007), When I Rule The World (NaNoRenO 2005), and Cloud Fairy (the Cute Light & Fluffy Project, 2009).
More recently I designed the board game Steam Works (published in 2015), available from a local gaming store near you!

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Re: Elven Relations - v1.1 released!

#164 Post by Aashtarsrain » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:52 am

plans are moving ahead for the sequel
:o !!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Great news !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Elven Relations - v1.1 released!

#165 Post by Radhreni » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:55 am

Huzzah!

I'm looking forward to a return to the same universe as ER. Sooo...how much can you tell us at this time? Is it going to be a direct sequel, or just set in the same world? (Or even a prequel?)

Which reminds me, I really should get back to playing again. But I have a ton of games to get through at the moment!

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