Nowhere Safe 2 [psychological][horror][commercial]

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redpandastudio
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Nowhere Safe 2 [psychological][horror][commercial]

#1 Post by redpandastudio »

Nowhere Safe: Unintended Silence

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Kimiko Yui has been unable to leave her house for over ten years. When her daughter comes down with a mysterious mental illness that requires a chaperone at school, Kimiko finds herself more desperate than ever to conquer her agoraphobia once and for all.

- 5 different endings
- One bonus ending!
- Lots of choices
- Robust soundtrack

Free online version (In 5th place on the daily pick at Newgrounds!)
Premium version
Nowhere Safe Collection (1st and 2nd game bundle)

Screenshots:

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Last edited by redpandastudio on Wed May 29, 2013 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nowhere Safe 2 [psychological][horror][commercial]

#2 Post by gekiganwing »

One of your images has a typo. The comatose woman's name was Terry Schiavo.

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Re: Nowhere Safe 2 [psychological][horror][commercial]

#3 Post by redpandastudio »

gekiganwing wrote:One of your images has a typo. The comatose woman's name was Terry Schiavo.
It's not a typo. I didn't want to use her real name. Just like there's no Tom Pruise (you'll see it if you play the game). I rarely use the real names of celebrities or famous people, and I especially avoid brand names like the plague.

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Re: Nowhere Safe 2 [psychological][horror][commercial]

#4 Post by Hiddenrabbit »

It looks very nice :D can't wait to play it later~ nice~

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Re: Nowhere Safe 2 [psychological][horror][commercial]

#5 Post by Anne »

World sure is a scary place... But this is much more fun than the first one, mostly because of different endings

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Re: Nowhere Safe 2 [psychological][horror][commercial]

#6 Post by redpandastudio »

@Hidden Rabbit: Thanks so much for your support. I'm looking forward to hearing your feedback after you play.

@Anne: Thanks so much for your comment. I'm glad that you enjoyed it and happy to see that we improved!

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Re: Nowhere Safe 2 [psychological][horror][commercial]

#7 Post by ixWishing »

Ah, it's out!
I'll be playing this now~
- Everlasting Dreams ;
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Re: Nowhere Safe 2 [psychological][horror][commercial]

#8 Post by redpandastudio »

ixWishing wrote:Ah, it's out!
I'll be playing this now~
Awesome, thanks for your interest. I look forward to hearing your feedback.

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Re: Nowhere Safe 2 [psychological][horror][commercial]

#9 Post by Caveat Lector »

Okay....I know ending 5 is supposed to be the best ending, but a lot of things just sit wrong. I get that Kimiko has anxiety issues and all, but...
Kimiko's attitude is rather unsettling. I'm not talking about her anxiety issues, I mean her attitude towards Naoki--or rather, his homosexuality--and also towards her own daughter. First, she's uncomfortable at the idea of having to answer Kazumi's question on what "gay" means (I know you're given the choice to explain, but her initial reaction to the question is bothersome--she's "not ready" to explain that it's possible for two boys or two girls to have crushes on each other? And then, if you choose to explain, it only takes one line of dialogue!), and then when she finds out Kento and Naoki are twins, she goes "They must be twins, but Naoki is gay, so how could they be identical?"...I know Naoki gives her an explanation (not sure why he would have to go into the scientific details), but it still made me facepalm. I know she's been a shut-in for years, but she never even read a book? What about the internet? Oh, and "I think cutting hair runs in gay genes"...yeah, there's a difference between "a character who just happens to be gay" and "a gay stereotype" and Naoki walks a thin line, especially with that bit of dialogue. Also...Naoki just puts sedatives in a total stranger's drink without her knowledge? Yeah...getting majorly creepy here... :shock: Just say the following out loud: "Naoki drugs up Kimiko without her consent." Doesn't sound right, does it?

And yes, I know you have to slap Kazumi to get to the best ending, and that having her locked up would've been best for her realistically, and I'm not saying it's bad to have a bittersweet ending to show that sometimes life doesn't work out the way we want it. And yes, I do understand that it must be difficult to realize your own child might have been born without a guilty conscience and that it might have been hereditary. And yes, Kazumi's behavior was out of line big time and she should be punished and called out on her behavior. But I'm sorry, Kimiko's actions (if you choose to slap Kazumi) made me angry--she calls her daughter a bitch, shakes her, and then says her daddy isn't her real father with NO context added. Oh, and she calls her own daughter a "monster" while the child might or might not have possibly been within earshot. And she has the nerve to say "Did she look scared to you?" when Kento asks...oh gee, no, I think she was crying because she enjoyed being slapped and shaken! :roll: Again, it's one of those things that, taken out of context, feels really unsettling, and I just can't justify it in context.

What would've helped would be if we actually SAW Kazumi be violent, or otherwise do something majorly troubling on-screen, not just draw violent pictures off-screen or hurt other kids off-screen, or restrict her on-screen violence to the one ending where she actually does kill Kimiko on-screen. Doing something like, for example, having Kazumi be excessively self-absorbed, or not reacting to a major tragedy news report on TV, or beating a neighbor's dog--and having this happen on-screen--would've been better indicators that something else was seriously wrong.
Overall, I'd say that while the premise behind both this and the first game were interesting, the execution just feels a little lackluster. I think that a re-make for both is due and that if the story were tweaked and underwent a major revision, these games would be vastly improved.
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Re: Nowhere Safe 2 [psychological][horror][commercial]

#10 Post by redpandastudio »

@ Caveat Lector

Thanks for taking the time to write all of that! I completely understand how all of those things came across like they did and you were definitely not alone. Also, thanks for playing both games!

I'll try to explain what was rolling around in my head when I wrote these stories. I am not disagreeing with anyone when I write this, so I really hope people don't take it that way.

A lot of how you perceive the game is based on your personal experience, so the e-mails and the reviews that I got were all over the place. Some people with very different life experiences didn't relate at all, where others felt like it was the story of their own life (as impossible as that may seem).
A lot of parents aren't sure how to talk to their kids about gay couples, especially when the children are very young. This is quite common. As society's views continue to evolve on the subject, it is likely that the conversation will also change, especially now that the Supreme Court has ruled. Parents often do not expect children to bring it up so quickly. So, yes. Some parents are caught off guard when asked and don't feel prepared to answer.

You also have to consider that some areas of America are much more comfortable with the topic than others, but in Japan, it is still rather taboo, despite the dedicated media. Kimiko has also been socially stunted for about ten years, so I was taking that into consideration. She has TV and the Internet, but she hasn't been able to participate in an intelligent gay discussion because gay people are not a part of her universe. When I used to live in Japan (with three different Japanese host families), the topic made even young people feel very uncomfortable and was mostly avoided, but it could depend on the circle.

If your child asks what gay means, I wouldn't spend a lot of time talking about it because providing a short explanation indicates that it's not a big deal and I believe is the best solution. Talking about it for too long could make it seem like a much bigger deal than it should be.
I hope it didn't come off as homophobic! I was hoping that Kimiko could go through the story realizing that she didn't have to be uncomfortable around gay people, and although it seems alien, there are still a lot of people out there that don't know any gay people closely. I didn't want to act like everyone in the world is completely comfortable with gay people.

Obviously putting drugs in her drink was dangerous and not okay, but I was not advocating that. I hope it didn't come across that way! I only wrote it in because I wanted Kimiko to have a window in which she realized that drugs may actually help her. Also, I wanted a twist to show that she really was not capable of going outside without being medicated. It wasn't all in her head! No placebo affect either since she had no idea that she was on drugs.

If you felt angry because of what Kimiko did, that was kind of the intention. She lost control which is something you obviously shouldn't do because you will just teach that to your children. That's also why she went beyond slapping her. She wouldn't have shaken her and blurted out extra things had she been in control. She should have finished at the slap, but that would have been anti-climactic. I wanted Kimiko to reveal the truth about her father in more than one path. Also, I never intended for the game to be a guide for parents, rather a story about one irresponsible one that had no idea what she was doing. (She had good intentions though).

However, I do think that children need to see when you are angry. The main point was that Kimiko always took the high road, but it didn't work. Kazumi wasn't afraid of her and she was just getting worse, so she needed to stand up to her daughter once and for all. Some people were glad that they finally got to slap Kazumi, so it just depends on the person. However, it was very controversial depending on what country you're from and I worried that it would turn the game into a debate about spanking. It was brought up during testing.

I have thought about what I could do to improve the stories and I did consider having Kazumi actually do something bad, but I was trying to show that there is a build up with children of mental illness. They often start by thinking about doing bad things, fantasize about them, and gradually work their way up from hurting insects to animals to people. I didn't really want to push Kazumi to do anything because she was seven. I didn't really think it would be believable, and I wanted people to question what was going on.

Oh! And I explained the science behind homosexuality because I thought people would find it interesting, and I also worried that they wouldn't buy them being twins if I didn't have a valid explanation.

As for stereotypes... I really struggled with this. I could write a gay character having no stereotypical gay traits, but if I did that, I would be ignoring people that do have those traits. Most of my friends, that are gay, open their mouths and rainbows spill out. Only a few of them don't seem like what we would stereotypically think of as gay, so I want them and their personalities to be represented without pushing stereotypes, and this is obviously very difficult. Ultimately, I would not want to omit something out of fear that people would say it was a stereotype. I hope that makes sense! For example, one of my friends calls everyone girl which a straight man would likely never do. Is it stereotypical? Yes. Should I not include that because people would perceive it as a stereotype?

So, thank you! I am very grateful for the feedback. I would definitely like to try and make the stories more realistic and believable for EVERYONE. I'm worried that it could make them kind of boring, depending on what I did, but... I know other people will also feel the same way. With a game like this, I'm not sure I would ever be able to create something that everyone would believe, just because people have such different filters from which they see life.
I would love to hear any suggestions that you have because I have considered a rewrite several times, but I'm not sure exactly how I would go about it.

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Re: Nowhere Safe 2 [psychological][horror][commercial]

#11 Post by Caveat Lector »

Thanks for reading my comments! And you’re welcome! Always glad to support other indie VN makers! :D
I suppose that yes, a lot of what you say about parents feeling uncomfortable about addressing straightforward questions about homosexuality from their children is true, especially when the parents come from a different era with different values. Most of it is probably just a kneejerk reaction on my part.
Oh, I wasn’t protesting to the idea of just giving a quick explanation! Rather, the idea that Kimiko felt uncomfortable about addressing the subject matter, yet could still easily answer if the player chose, should've cleared that up, sorry! It was Kimiko’s attitude that came off as troubling, not yours, so no worries.

Even with the help of drugs, though, I think it would’ve been better if Naoki had asked her if she wanted to try going outside on the drug first and then have the choice come in about whether or not take it. It’s the whole “doing it without her permission” thing that bothers me.

Good, because I WAS angry! However, I do find it a bit strange to give the player the choice of not slapping Kazumi yet also having Kimiko NOT be “in control” if she does, because choice usually implies some degree of “control”, doesn’t it? I was half-expecting Kimiko to afterwards yell at Kazumi “Do you have any idea of the trouble you’re in? Do you think about anyone other than yourself?”, etc. and instead got her stepping over the line. And of course, children SHOULD see when their parents are angry when they go above and beyond just a cutesy prank, and SHOULD be told that it’s not cutesy or funny to stab other kids with scissors or give other kids food poisoning. I just felt Kimiko went too far. Though, I think the people who were glad to slap Kazumi were probably speaking from frustration on Kazumi’s actions in the other endings more than the values of the place they were brought up in.

True, there usually is a build-up with children who are mentally ill, but a main rule of storytelling is “show don’t tell”. It would’ve been better if Kazumi’s psychopathy had been built up subtly on-screen and SHOWN on-screen, the kind of clues that are obvious in hindsight but are very subtle the first play through. Like, as mentioned, having her not react emotionally to a major tragedy reported on the news. Then have this gradually build up to the violence at school, blatant lack of empathy, showing no guilt or remorse, etc. Perhaps even have her be violent around the home and show no remorse for it? It could be something as mild as killing harmless insects.

And I do get the “stereotype vs. accurate representation” problem. Again, probably more of a kneejerk reaction more than anything else. I would say that the best way to get around this would be to develop the character as a character by showing more of their personality around other people and how they react to something individually and not focus too much on the typical traits--or rather, have those traits be a part of who they are. To an extent, this is achieved with Naoki, but the one part that majorly bothered me about him was, as said, the whole "drugging up Kimiko without her consent" deal.
I don’t think it’s necessarily boring to depict a slice-of-life story, but I think in your case you’re a little TOO concerned about it being boring, and it shows. As mentioned by others, you do tend to go for the more melodramatic, which tends to break suspension of disbelief when going for a more serious psychological story. A little less melodrama might make it work, and feel more “true to life” for a broader audience. Ultimately, I can’t tell you how to write your story, but I would suggest going back over and deciding how many "dramatic events" are necessary to the plot and characterization, and how many are there just to be "not boring".
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Re: Nowhere Safe 2 [psychological][horror][commercial]

#12 Post by redpandastudio »

Oh! Okay, thanks. LOL! I misunderstood a few things.

The reason I said it depends on where you're from is because America is really diverse, but also because one person was from the Netherlands and she/he said that she didn't want to slap the girl in virtual reality because it was illegal in her country. So, the idea that she had to
slap her to win
was very trying for her.

Interesting. I thought that the dramatic events were advancing the plot, but maybe they weren't! I didn't really think about it too much. I'm always afraid that people are going to say my games are slow or boring. That would be the biggest failure for me, but I will take your advice and try not to go over the top. However, I am afraid that when I do that, I may start to get those comments. People love their drama.

Thanks for your comments!

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Re: Nowhere Safe 2 [psychological][horror][commercial]

#13 Post by redpandastudio »

Hey guys!

I just wanted to let everyone know that Nowhere Safe 2 is not available on OUYA! I'll probably port it to other Android platforms when I have time.

http://dev1.ouya.tv/game/Nowhere-Safe-2/

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