Raidaa no Asahi

[papillon]

I barely read the WIP topic, I generally don't. I glance at them quickly to get a vague idea of what people are up to, but I do not pay attention to them. I don't want to get overexcited about a project that may never be completed. Therefore, I had basically no expectations.

I didn't object to the fanservice as is. It's silly, but it seemed to go with the tone of Generic Anime Comedy For me they worked better without pictures, as they just came across as silly jokes. Fanservice drawn up in detail to be 'sexy' would make me roll my eyes more, unless the game was heading into all-out hentai.

Archiveability... You'd have to ask the keepers of the stats how many downloads things get. It's a way of possibly advertising the game to more people who might wander by the archive and not join the forums - or who might join the forums but not bother browsing past the most recent topics in Completed Games. But you've already gotten some people here to play it and comment on it. Is that enough? Do you want more?

[Vatina]

1. It seems that the majority of you didn't really like the fanservice. Had there been CGs accompanying those scenes (Asaga making Kaito grope her, Ikkari falling on top of Chigara), then would your opinion of those scenes changed?

No I don't think it would have changed anything for me. I still wouldn't be a fan of the groping scene - and I think the falling over scene worked well as it was.

2. What were your expectations of this game before playing it, and were those expectations met? Do you think that had I not kept a WIP topic and aimed instead for a surprise, silent release, your response to the game would have changed?

I expected a SHMUP with cute girls... and that is pretty much what I got I didn't find out a lot about the story in general by reading in that topic, so I didn't know what to expect there. I don't think it changed the way I recieved it ^^

3. What are your opinions on the Ren'Ai Archives?

Yes, this one is more up to you - do you want to make that extra effort to get exposure through the archive?

I don't like games more/less because of them being in the archive. It just makes them easier to find.

[chronoluminaire]

Mmm... Now I have a bunch of questions for the community. ^_^

1. It seems that the majority of you didn't really like the fanservice. Had there been CGs accompanying those scenes (Asaga making Kaito grope her, Ikkari falling on top of Chigara), then would your opinion of those scenes changed?

Well, I wasn't among the group who objected to it. I found it a little cliched, but fun enough as it went. I'd have preferred it with CGs either way, though.

And the more important question:

2. [...]However, I'm also thinking that the WIP topic raised everyone's expectations too high and that the game ultimately didn't meet those expectations. What were your expectations of this game before playing it, and were those expectations met? Do you think that had I not kept a WIP topic and aimed instead for a surprise, silent release, your response to the game would have changed?

Hmm, I think it was good to have the topic. If I hadn't seen the youtube video of how the combat system worked, it would probably have been more confusing to me. I personally don't tend to do WIP threads, but inconsistently, I quite like it when people do.

3. What are your opinions on the Ren'Ai Archives? Should the next game be created to meet the requirements for submission? It's obviously a small trade off. The sound effects might be a bit limited and the music might not fit as perfectly, but there are also big advantages of being on the Archives as well. Obviously, since I'm still kind of new here, I don't really know what kind of an influence the RAA has... Would you like the game more if it were on the Archive?

So I'd say it's not so much a matter of the RAA, but just copyright. The RAA requirements are just that your game be legal to release on the Internet, and your game isn't, sadly. Now that didn't stop me and most of us from playing it, but it will stop some people, and it'll certainly prohibit a lot of potential distribution channels in future.

There really are an awful lot of copyright-released sound FX out there; particularly if you find ones that it's legal for you to modify in an audio editing program, you could make several different explosions from one sound.

To answer your actual question, I'd say the RAA does play an important role. It helps your game survive into posterity, and be found by more players.

[Jake]

1. It seems that the majority of you didn't really like the fanservice. Had there been CGs accompanying those scenes (Asaga making Kaito grope her, Ikkari falling on top of Chigara), then would your opinion of those scenes changed?

I didn't specifically not like the fanservice. I mean... that whole oh-look-he-fell-with-his-face-in-her-breasts genre kind of winds me up, to be honest - I wouldn't be at all upset if Akamatsu Ken announced tomorrow he was never going to write or draw anything else ever again - so there is probably nothing you could do to make me like those scenes... but I did think they added a lot in terms of acclimatising the player; from the scene with the groping right near the beginning it was made clear what kind of story it was going to be and what kind of universe it was set in, and that kind of thing can be quite important. So I wouldn't advise you to remove them, either, unless you were going to radically alter the setting.

(I tend to believe that in general any scene which is described by narration would be better off with event CGs showing the player what happened - but I'm also well aware of how much work that is, so I'm not about to hold a lack of CGs against anyone! I have an imagination, I can use it. )

However, I'm also thinking that the WIP topic raised everyone's expectations too high and that the game ultimately didn't meet those expectations. What were your expectations of this game before playing it, and were those expectations met? Do you think that had I not kept a WIP topic and aimed instead for a surprise, silent release, your response to the game would have changed?

My position is kind of a blend of Papillon's and Chrono's, really; I do read work-in-progress threads, and if they're for games I think I'm going to be interested in playing, then I'm quite interested in reading the WIP insofar as it doesn't actually spoil the game... but on the other hand, I'm also well aware of how hard putting a game together is, so the only expectations I drew from the WIP thread was that sometime there might be a game and it might have shooting segments in.

3. What are your opinions on the Ren'Ai Archives? Should the next game be created to meet the requirements for submission?

Personally, I think it should - but not specifically for inclusion in the RAA, but because I think it's better to obey copyright laws when creating your own stuff. Think of it this way - if you have no moral compunction taking music someone else owns and putting it in your game, why should some random third party respect your copyrights enough to not take your hard work and throw it in a "50 action games!" compilation and make money selling it? Copyright law is there explicitly to protect people like us who create things, so it's in our best interests to abide by it.

I don't really know what kind of an influence the RAA has... Would you like the game more if it were on the Archive?

I don't think being in the RAA would affect my appreciation of a game at all - but as Chrono said, it's good to have games mirrored in more than one location; people will always be able to get at them so long as the RAA stays up, regardless of what happens to forum topics you've posted the game to, sites of your own you're hosting it on, RapidShare downloads or whatever.

[papillon]

Think of it this way - if you have no moral compunction taking music someone else owns and putting it in your game, why should some random third party respect your copyrights enough to not take your hard work and throw it in a "50 action games!" compilation and make money selling it?

Even blatant pirates often draw a distinction between copyright-breaking for free/personal use and selling copies. :)

This is a community standards thing, really. On the Game Maker forums, use of unlicensed resources is extremely common, even though it's officially against the rules, and probably going to get YYG in trouble one of these days now that they have ad revenue... A lot of the users are kids, they have no art skills, they have no budget, and they want to make something other than 'black box and green box in the big blue screen' (Although some of them DO make that.) So they use a lot of ripped sprites and tiles, along with the few sets of actual freeware resources they can find. And there are a lot more fangames.

Whereas here the userbase is a little older on average and has more interest in unique characters.

Doesn't change the laws, but it does change the reaction you get.

[Samu-kun]

Yes, the GMC is quite like that. XD But I will take what you said about the copyrights under advisement and try to make future games using royalty-free resources, if at all possible. Afterall, I like the community here much more than the one in the GMC, (There's a reason I come here instead of there, you know. -_-;) so I might as well get used to working under the standards that we have here instead of the standards over there.

Thanks for the quick responses, everyone. ^_^ After reading your responses, I think it'll be wise to start a new WIP topic once I have more done work done on my next project. Obviously, many of your suggestions will be implemented in the future. ^_^

Mmm... Oh and I have a small preview.

I just tried to make a mecha for the last couple days to see how much I've improved. This is an early WIP render. Mmm... It looks kind of like a blend between Sky Girls and Gundam. ^_^

But now that I'm finally able to model mechas, I kind of like the starships too. XD

[sake-bento]

1.) I just don't like fanservice. The present of CGs or not wouldn't change my view. I think a lot of people were noting how awkward it seemed, and I suppose narrative text would have been "better." But as a personal thing, fanservice just isn't up my alley.

2.) I browse WIP threads quite a bit, and I really try to encourage games that I'm eager to see. Additionally, it's a great way to get feedback from people, and it keeps me honest because it's like making a commitment to complete a game. If I just sorta started a game then decided I was lazy, it would never happen. Having the thread gives me the extra push I need.

3.) It's not the RAA so much (although I did discover that long before I found Ren'py or Lemmasoft), but I think in the end there's something to be proud of when you say that everything in your game is original. Whether it's done by a group or just one person, it just feels really good to know that it's all original works. And since I did find the RAA while ago and this place quite recently, you can know that putting your game there would get a lot more players.

[Wintermoon]

1. I would define fanservice as a scene that is designed to titillate the player, at the cost of actual plot or character development. I don't like fanservice because it cheapens the characters. If the "fanservice" is for humorous effect, or if it's actually in character and doesn't detract from the plot, I don't count it as fanservice. Likewise, if the scene fails to make a serious attempt at titillation, it does not qualify as fanservice.

The groping scene in Raidaa no Asahi seemed more like an out-of-place joke than actual fanservice. That's not much better than fanservice, but not worse either.

2. By releasing a game at all, you exceeded my expectations. I tend to treat WIP threads as wishful thinking rather than actual work. Those who can, do. Those who can't, start WIP threads.

3. I think you should not use any content without permission from the original creator, regardless of the RAA.

[Nafai]

It seems that the majority of you didn't really like the fanservice. Had there been CGs accompanying those scenes (Asaga making Kaito grope her, Ikkari falling on top of Chigara), then would your opinion of those scenes changed?

- I actually thought the groping incident was character development - it established Asaga's character fairly quickly. Hence I have no issues with that. As for the other, I hardly noticed it - that's more of a visual gag really so it would have been more obvious had there been CGs - but frankly you're better off using CGs with a more important scene ^_^

However, I'm also thinking that the WIP topic raised everyone's expectations too high and that the game ultimately didn't meet those expectations. What were your expectations of this game before playing it, and were those expectations met? Do you think that had I not kept a WIP topic and aimed instead for a surprise, silent release, your response to the game would have changed?

- I only browsed the WIP, but I don't think it would raise expectations too high unless you gave inaccurate status reports. It actually helps focus expectations more, in the sense that you know what kind of game its going to be in general. So WIPs are good, especially if they inspire you

What are your opinions on the Ren'Ai Archives? Should the next game be created to meet the requirements for submission? It's obviously a small trade off. The sound effects might be a bit limited and the music might not fit as perfectly, but there are also big advantages of being on the Archives as well. Obviously, since I'm still kind of new here, I don't really know what kind of an influence the RAA has... Would you like the game more if it were on the Archive?

- I think the others have touched upon this better than I - the RAA is a great archive, but sticking within their requirements also means its easier to diseminate you game in other venues without issues.

[Blue Lemma]

I didn't object to the fanservice as is.... For me they worked better without pictures, as they just came across as silly jokes.

What?! Fanservice with no pictures?!

That's like a hot dog without a bun! A tire without a hubcap! A computer without a hard drive! A tennis court without a net! A DVD without extras! A Cadbury egg with no creme filling! A coconut without milk! A printer without ink! A desk without a chair! An egg without the yolk! A wallet without money! An MP3 player without music! Pancakes without maple syrup! An ice skating rink without a zamboni! The Peanuts without Charlie Brown! A finger without a fingernail! A whale without blubber! A piano without keys! A smoke detector without an alarm! A bank without accounts! A yo-yo without a string!

Clearly you can see the problem here



Joking aside, I am looking forward to playing the game
*downloading*

[Ignosco]

Congratulations on your release

I tried to go through both the combats on Moderate, but I ended up dying on the final part of each stage, and downgraded to Easy (I'm terrible at these sorts of games). The gameplay design was effective for me, as there was no need to focus on ammunition/reloading, allowing for more of my attention to be directed towards dodging (or in my case, minimising the number of hits from) the hundreds of bullets. The characters and dialogue were amusing (although 'Chii' was perhaps overuse), and a few of the situations, coupled with the facial expressions made me laugh.

To answer the questions:

1. It would have been nice to have CGs for those scenes, but the scenes are still amusing as they are. The female characters were stereotypical (in a good way), so I would have been surprised not to encounter fanservice scenes.

2. I only skimmed through the WIP thread, so although I had a basic idea about the gameplay and characters, I didn't have much idea of what the final product would be like.

3. The game will get more exposure in the RAA and more downloads, but I'm not sure how much more direct feedback, comments etc you'll get.

I'm looking forward to future episodes - intriguing plot/hamstrung protagonist surrounded by girls/gameplay is always enjoyable for me...

[DaFool]

I'm pleased at the good response this game has been receiving. Bit busy to read everything, but I would just like to chime in on the latest questions:

1.) Fanservice -- bring it on!
2.) RAA -- It's not an artistic standard, but a technical one. Everything on there has to be royalty-free in all components.
3.) WIP threads -- you need them for recruitment purposes, and for general advise if it's your first time making a game of a certain magnitude. If you don't need to recruit or if you've made several games under your belt (and the current game is <= the most difficult game you've made so far), WIP threads are not necessary. To me...
* enthusiastic WIP response + enthusiastic Completed response = win
* nonenthusiastic WIP response + nonenthusiastic Completed response = nothing lost
* nonenthusiastic WIP response + enthusiastic Completed response = blowing everyone away, the best case scenario
* enthusiastic WIP response + nonenthusiastic Completed response = did not meet expectations, the worst case scenario.

That's why if you try not to make a WIP thread, then you would lose nothing.

[bloodywyvern]

Damn me and my naps at odd times, I am so late on this >.< Oh right anyway...I'm too lazy to quote so...

Fan service- While it has reached a point of being cliche and almost expected, I wouldn't say it's a bad thing. It gives a light hearted humor side to a story that might not be easy to slip in through the cracks of serious narration. Now even if some people object to fan service, I don't think too many people dislike it completely. There's a sense of nothing being new, that it's the same old groping, falling, etc. So maybe the important thing to remember is to create variety from what exists. You seem to be good at innovation, work with it. Oh and as for me, no fan service doesn't turn me off at all...it can be pretty fun to see (or in this case read). While having CG's would obviously make it over all better, I'm the type to prefer to see CG's in a more serious an emotional scene...rather than the fan service. I mentioned this before but Utawarerumono used non narrative descriptions like that on occasion to great effect. It was unexpected yes, but it works most of the time.

WIP- A work in progress thread is needed depending on the author, some people need the motivation support to keep their spirits making the game. The whole 'I can't let these people down!' factor, but it can make a backlash too. As fun as releasing a game no one cared about and having it blow away all the standards to ever exist would be...it can be a daunting task to work from pure willpower. As DaFool said though, the most important aspect of them is for first games or new types of games, in order to establish staff and a few fans to keep track of it. our pretty much guaranteed a cult following at this point so if you did make one, you might not have to give such big updates ^^

RAA- The archives obviously are not the most 'important' aspect of a game, it's the fact people enjoy it and want more...that goal comes before anything else, even copyright (*gasps*). Now of course making it copyright compliant should be important too! But without money involved there's no real problem in using outside sources to fill parts not capable of being filled by the current staff. Lemma Soft has a huge outpouring of talent in all areas, but most of them are tied to other projects or just busy as hell...no one can expect anything but the greatest of projects, or most popular of users to gain enough staff to make everything original.

Back on topic...the RAA to me is kind of like when an old sports player endorses a new one, it's got that 'classic' feel to it and a sense of pride to be recognized by the older retired player. RAA gives a sense that your game could weather time, but also a feel good moment of 'Hey, you did it, you made an all original game and we will remember it'.

That's just by feelings on it, and again sorry for being so darn late.

[Kikered]

To answer your questions:

1) I didn't mind the "fanservice" bits, but I agree that CG or narrative would be better than *action*. Like others have mentioned, I found that it added to the game's relatively light-hearted and "fun" tone.

2) Like others, I didn't look at the WIP much. I skimmed the first post a few days before the release to get a general idea of the setting and characters but didn't delve into any details. While I personally would personally shy away from using such threads, you should continue using them if they work for you. ^^

3) Everyone else covered this question pretty well, so I have nothing new to add.

I forgot to mention this in my previous post, but it would be very helpful if there was a visual or audio cue when the secondary bar is completely charged. It is particularly vital for optimal charging on the turn-based sequences, but perhaps I was simply too focused on hitting the enemy to notice. ^^;

[Samu-kun]

Alright, thanks for the replies everyone. ^_^

On fanservice, it looks like it's kind of a split so far. ^_^ But your comments are well apprechiated and I will keep them in mind when writing the next script. In any case, I am trying to minimize the number of CGs to an absolute minimum in the next game so that I can focus the majority of my attention on the story, so it looks like the majority of the more ecchi events will have to happen through the narration instead of through pictures.

On the WIP topic, it sounds like the majority of you didn't pay too close attention to the WIP topic or if you did, your expectations were met. Which is definately good. My worst case scenario was pretty much that the WIP topic set expectations too high and the final product failed to met them. I will certainly start another WIP topic when I get enough work done on my next game for a proof of concept. But this time, I probably won't release as much information... Just to add more of a surprise factor when you first download the game. ^_^ BTW, the recruitment thing's really not working out in the WIP topic... My team members have a tendency to disappear after a few days. XD That seems to be pretty much the common tendency for all projects, not just including mine. XD It looks like I'll pretty much be going the next project alone again. Oh well, I'm not totally surprised this is the way things turn out...

Furthermore, I will try to make this game meet the requirements for submission into the RAA, but it's not an exact guarntee, depending on what type of gameplay I decide to build the next game around. (if at all) But I will definately look into all the resources Jake has given me and atleast put forth a honest attempt to make 100% of the game on my own.

One more clarifying thing... The next game will just have the working title of "The SunRiders" now to avoid confusion with Raidaa no Asahi. (Besides, the Japanese in it's appearently wrong, I've been told. -_-;) I'm getting tired of always referring it to it with "my next game" or the "next Raidaa game." XD