[NaNoReNo09] pXt

[JQuartz]

Did you not notice the part were everyone died?!

But in the story it was just an act. It's similar to a story about two silly person acting in a tragedy movie. My tragedy indicator didn't light up (I hate tragic stories).

(Obligatry pedantry: it was Delta, not Showsni, and I think Ovid didn't so much create the original as write down an existing bit of Roman folklore...)

Oops. Sorry.

[Jake]

Did you not notice the part were everyone died?!

But in the story it was just an act. It's similar to a story about two silly person acting in a tragedy movie. My tragedy indicator didn't light up (I hate tragic stories).

In Romeo and Juliet it's just an act, as well - the people playing Romeo and Juliet aren't real people either? The original tale of Pyramus and Thisbe is generally considered to have been the inspiration for Romeo and Juliet.

The oversimplification is that a comedy is a play where everyone gets married at the end, and a tragedy is one where everyone dies. While Midsummer Night's Dream is a comedy, Pyramus and Thisby is a tragedy, because both the main characters die.

[JQuartz]

In Romeo and Juliet it's just an act, as well

I had a feeling you would say this...

What I meant is they are acting in the story. Romeo and Juliet wasn't acting in the story. They were actors for the story, not in the story.

If Romeo and Juliet was just acting in the story, ie. they were actually actors and so the them committing suicide wasn't real in the story. There's a difference between acting for the story and acting in the story.

To cement the fact that it was just an act, there were people commenting on the story. Would you just sit on your chair and comment on the story if it wasn't an act?

Other than that, there's also other situations that cements the fact that it was just an act:
1)If you were about to hug your sweetheart and I just stand between the two of you, would you say "Oh, my love but I cannot hug you because a wall is between us." No, you would just kick my ass and chuck me down the garbage chute.
2)If you saw a cute girl in a fun fair with red stains on her mouth and a veil with the same stain on the floor, would the first thing that comes into your mind be "Oh my God! This cute girl had eaten my girlfriend!"?

So in a nutshell, the story is about a group of female actor acting a tragic show and the show was ridiculed(in a funny way) by the audience. How can that be tragic?

[Jake]

So in a nutshell, the story is about a group of female actor acting a tragic show and the show was ridiculed(in a funny way) by the audience. How can that be tragic?

There's many answers to this, but I shall settle on just two, for I don't have the time to waste beating you with the cold hard half-brick of literature swung in the sock of logic until you capitulate.

- Answer one: the story that you get from 'Start Game' doesn't have the ridicule or the comedy, it's a straight-up rendition of the Pyramus and Thisby play parts. Which is obviously a tragedy, because both lovers die, regardless of how badly-staged it is. The only comedy is in the 'MST1596' section.

- Answer two: even in the MST1596 version, it doesn't have a happy ending, so how can it be a comedy?

[Ren]

1)If you were about to hug your sweetheart and I just stand between the two of you, would you say "Oh, my love but I cannot hug you because a wall is between us." No, you would just kick my ass and chuck me down the garbage chute.

I'm not sure he'd have the time to do that, you know? :P

[JQuartz]

Which is obviously a tragedy, because both lovers die, regardless of how badly-staged it is.

But from the narration it gives a impression that it's just an stage act within the story. If that's the case, neither of them actually died in the story. They only act dead. If they really died, then it's tragic. But if it's only an act and is stated/shown to be an act, I just don't feel it's tragic. I believe the story is not tragic but comedic. The story within the story (the stage act) is tragic. But since it was just an act in the story, it's influence on the overall impact of the story is quite minuscule. So in the end, the story is comedic.

even in the MST1596 version, it doesn't have a happy ending, so how can it be a comedy?

MST3000 also doesn't seem to have a happy ending at the end of each episode yet it is still classified as comedy. So the same concept also applied here.

I'm not sure he'd have the time to do that, you know?

I imagined it to be very funny and so I used it to cement the fact it was a comedy but the tone I used probably made it seem hostile instead of humorous...

[Ren]

I'm not sure he'd have the time to do that, you know? :P

I imagined it to be very funny and so I used it to cement the fact it was a comedy but the tone I used probably made it seem hostile instead of humorous...

Not at all, I was joking myself, actually.
I was hinting that I'm much faster than he is - if you really did that I'd kick you before he even had the time to say 'bif'. :P

[Jake]

MST3000 also doesn't seem to have a happy ending at the end of each episode yet it is still classified as comedy.

Not in the sense that Shakespearean plays are divided into comedies and tragedies, it's not. In the language of literature, it's a drama - having laughs doesn't make a thing a comedy, in that sense. The problem is that you don't seem to know what the words you're arguing about actually mean in the context of describing stories, just what they're used to mean on TV.

the tone I used probably made it seem hostile instead of humorous...

I expect she means that she would already have snapped your neck from behind before I got a chance to lay a finger on you, but I could be wrong. :3

[EwanG]

The oversimplification is that a comedy is a play where everyone gets married at the end, and a tragedy is one where everyone dies. While Midsummer Night's Dream is a comedy, Pyramus and Thisby is a tragedy, because both the main characters die.

Just because I like a challenge... is it a tragedy in the end if everyone dies... from being hit by custard cream pies?

IOW, isn't there a way to "send everyone up" in such a funny way that you'd laugh rather than cry, and then would it still be a tragedy?

[Jake]

would it still be a tragedy?

Of course?

It's not so clear cut as "everyone dies == tragedy", but if it's a tragedy, it doesn't stop being a tragedy just because it's funny.

[JQuartz]

Not in the sense that Shakespearean plays are divided into comedies and tragedies, it's not.

Aha! I think this is the reason why we're disagreeing, our definition of comedies and tragedies are not the same. I define comedies as stories that would make a person laugh a lot and not shed a single tear/feel sad. For tragedies, I define them as stories that don't make you laugh but make you cry/feel sad. I don't think my definition is even close to what literature's definition of comedies and tragedies. So by my definition, the Pxt is a comedy but literature wise it's a tragedy.

I expect she means that she would already have snapped your neck from behind before I got a chance to lay a finger on you, but I could be wrong. :3

This is one of the reasons why I prefer to use pseudonyms...

Just because I like a challenge... is it a tragedy in the end if everyone dies... from being hit by custard cream pies?

It depends (if according to my definition of tragedy not the literature one). If everyone dies and they go to heaven and had a wonderful time, it definitely not a tragedy. But if everyone dies and their family cries and wails begging them to come back, it definitely a tragedy(my definition not the literature one) in my books. The method of dying isn't as important as the consequence of dying.

[Ren]

I expect she means that she would already have snapped your neck from behind before I got a chance to lay a finger on you, but I could be wrong. :3

This is one of the reasons why I prefer to use pseudonyms...

But it wouldn't make any difference, if you were standing between us, no?
I'd not ask your name or anything, after all... :P

[Jake]

If everyone dies and they go to heaven and had a wonderful time, it definitely not a tragedy. But if everyone dies and their family cries and wails begging them to come back, it definitely a tragedy(my definition not the literature one) in my books.

What happens if everyone dies and they go to heaven and have a wonderful time but their familes obviously aren't there and can't tell it's happened and they cry and wail and beg for them to come back?

Does that make it definitely a tragedy and also definitely not a tragedy at the same time? Schrödinger's Theater?

[Showsni]

We could call it a tragicomedy, but I think that's the other way around (tragic story with a happy end). So, a comitragedy? A comic story, with a tragic ending? Hmm...

Tragedies are kind of depressing, normally because they could have been averted so easily. If Pyramus/Romeo weren't so quick to commit suicide upon thinking their lover dead, we'd have a fine happy story... If Antigone had just waited in the cace instead of hanging herself... If Theseus hadn't called in Neptune's favour... If Paris had chosen differently... Then again, some people just have it coming. Like Agamemnon. I can totally sympathise with Clytemnestra. Except for the killing Cassandra part.

[JQuartz]

But it wouldn't make any difference, if you were standing between us, no?

Eh? You're Jake's sweetheart? I didn't know that. Initially I thought you wanted to say you are offended by my remarks so you wanted to kick me/break my neck in real life. That's why I said the pseudonym thing.

What happens if everyone dies and they go to heaven and have a wonderful time but their familes obviously aren't there and can't tell it's happened and they cry and wail and beg for them to come back?

I'll use the following method to determine if it's tragic or not.

Code: Select all

if happiness>>tragicness:
    $ story_type='happy story'
elif tragicness>>happiness:
    $ story_type='tragic story'
if story_type=='happy story' and tragicness==0:
    $ story_type='comedic story'

So if I think the family's pain is more than the dead's happiness, then it would be a tragic story. If it the other way round, it would be a happy drama/story. Since there's some gloomy stuff, I wouldn't consider it as a comedy.