[NaNoReNo09] pXt

[mikey]

My issue was if it was possible to use material already finished before the starting of the Nanoreno. 07' Rules said ok for use of writing notes but not already written complete story (but as there are no 09' rules...)

I pointed at music because that was the only thing I can't do by myself yet, but if it's ok then it reduce work a lot by having all data ready (story, art, music) before march and just working on coding.

The point would be that those ready-made assets (free literature scripts, backgrounds, music etc,...) are treated as third-party (much like say using a freeware VN engine) and were not made by the team either. So basically even if you "just" put it all together, it's not a problem for NaNoRenO, because the creative work of your team was done within the month. You use assets which are free for general use, which means the people who made them weren't on your team. That's why it's perfectly OK in my book.

Not in the sprit of NaNoRenO would be to draw the BGs in December, draw sprites in January, make music in February and put it together in March as a NaNoRenO game. Since the assets were made by your team, intended for your work.

[Jake]

Same here. Is this a based on a Shakespeare story?

'Based' is such a flexible word. :3

If you play the 'MST1596' version, then the dialogue is lifted directly from the end of A Midsummer Night's Dream. The regular version, amusingly, is that script with the audience commentary taken out.

Of course, in the Shakespeare version, all the actors were men, instead of all being women in this one.

[JQuartz]

If you play the 'MST1596' version, then the dialogue is lifted directly from the end of A Midsummer Night's Dream. The regular version, amusingly, is that script with the audience commentary taken out.

Of course, in the Shakespeare version, all the actors were men, instead of all being women in this one.

I see. Thanks for the info, Jake.

[sake-bento]

This brings back so many memories, most of which are good.

The gender swap was amusing, if nothing else. I like having a MST3K edition; it was a nice way to layer the commentary over the play.

[PyTom]

So basically even if you "just" put it all together, it's not a problem for NaNoRenO, because the creative work of your team was done within the month. You use assets which are free for general use, which means the people who made them weren't on your team. That's why it's perfectly OK in my book.

The funny thing about it is it now appears that the whole point of pXt was to try to get a rise out of us buy creating a game where the only original aspect is the integration work.

They have epically failed to get said rise, and I got to play an interesting adaptation of a Shakespeare work. More like this, please. ☺

[Guest]

The funny thing about it is it now appears that the whole point of pXt was to try to get a rise out of us buy creating a game where the only original aspect is the integration work.

This philosophy:
"Don't let the lack of original material prevent you from making a game!"
contrasts with this philosophy:
"Custom-made original material will make your game special and more memorable."

No one has really encountered the second philosophy in full force, but it has been a subject of discussion. The thing is, it is far easier to get something that superficially looks polished by following the first philosophy, then by following the second, since there are plenty of professional free resources available. What LSF has been known to do is to praise people who follow the latter philosophy regardless of the resulting polish. "Even if it looks like crap, if it's your own original art, good job!"

The reason why there is no 'rise' is because people have always been using off-the-shelf material to release games quicker than the 'original' projects. It's just a fact of life so there's nothing to get jealous over.

[Jake]

Also, that post makes an excellent point, which doesn't get nearly enough Serious Discussion:

NaNoRenO, (Inter)National Ren'ai Game Writing Month (yes the abbreviation doesn't make much sense)

What was wrong with "NaViNoMo", or "InViNoMo" for that matter, or if you want to keep the 'NaNo' for recognition "NaNoViMo" (Novel-Visual, it sounds French-ish so it's obviously more sophisticated) or something? Hmm?

[AuAu]

So basically even if you "just" put it all together, it's not a problem for NaNoRenO, because the creative work of your team was done within the month. You use assets which are free for general use, which means the people who made them weren't on your team. That's why it's perfectly OK in my book.

The funny thing about it is it now appears that the whole point of pXt was to try to get a rise out of us buy creating a game where the only original aspect is the integration work.

They have epically failed to get said rise, and I got to play an interesting adaptation of a Shakespeare work. More like this, please. ☺

That's a rather harsh and unfair intrepretation and I'm mildly insulted, in fact. Sure, I guess part of the point of pXt is to portray the potentially hilarious consequences of using stock material (though not malevolently, as you seem to imply). However, more importantly it was made to comment on the NaNoRenO challenge by subverting the premise. While I guess most of the people did miss the point (maybe because the game actually is a decent bit of VN as it stands), calling it an epic fail is quite presumptuous. We are just happy if the game works on multiple levels, a revelation that occurred to delta himself only yesterday night after he completed it and we test played it a few times.

[Adorya]

I don't think the epic fail was aimed at pxt but to the objective of raising interest in using pre made materials and doing something good with them (though I don't completely agree since NaNoReNo09 is not finished yet so can't say conclusion about how many games used pre made materials).

[Aashtarsrain]

There's nothing "implied" in PyTom's message, except praise for your VN (and not the contrary) and he's actually teasing US and challenging US to produce something as interesting as your work (and as... finished) for the NaNoRenO ! And indeed, there's no better VN than an actually published VN so thank you for paving the way this year !

[Jake]

. . .

OK, seriously, guys - PyTom stated that it appeared to him that the entire point of the creation of that VN was to "get a rise" from this forum. If deliberately annoying someone isn't malevolent, I need to go and look up what 'malevolent' means again. Maybe it's a bit of a harsh wording, but so is just automatically assuming that someone having fun with the premise of NaNoRenO is doing so just to annoy us and not because it's amusing.

Personally, I'd read that post and hadn't come to any such conclusion - it seems to me that Delta was just pointing out something absurd he and his friends noticed about the 'rules' of NaNo, it doesn't mean he necessarily wanted to upset anyone. And, you know, it is a bit absurd, and if NaNo were a Serious competition with Serious prizes I'd certainly suggest adding something like "the story of your VN must have been written specifically for the NaNo project, sometime in March" or "at least one facet of your VN - story, art, music - must be entirely your own work" or something. But it's not, it's just a fun motivator to get a project finished, and I don't see any reason it should exclude things like pXt; people have still put some time and effort into it, and it turned out to be pretty amusing.

(I guess if there has to be a filter, it's notable that something copyrightable has been created; even if a derivative work of someone else's scripts and someone else's music and someone else's graphics, it's still a 'creation' in the eyes of the law and I see no reason NaNo should be more picky than that. It's hardly supposed to be a challenge to produce a masterpiece...)

On the other hand, one criticism Delta and friends consistently level at this forum is that it's nothing but a den of Ren'Py/PyTom fanboys patting each other on the back for the slightest achievement, so... y'know, good job reinforcing that stereotype. *Pats on back*

[Guest]

On the other hand, one criticism Delta and friends consistently level at this forum is that it's nothing but a den of Ren'Py/PyTom fanboys patting each other on the back for the slightest achievement, so... y'know, good job reinforcing that stereotype. *Pats on back*

I just find it amusing that they end up doing things which could have worked within the realm of said fanboyism. Unless they can create works of such caliber that demonstrated their superior philosophies, the antagonism was pointless, frankly.

[papillon]

To me, it's obviously a valid creation for these boards because even with no original art, story, whatever - if this were made by a complete newbie as their first game, they would still have used it as a good practice to learn how to make VNs. It probably makes more SENSE for (some) complete newcomers to make a game with nothing original to it so that they can learn how the pieces go together, play with effects, see how the story is changed by being presented in VN form, etc... without being burdened by their own vague idea of the Best Game Ever that they want to make.

A completely unoriginal project is never going to be the best game ever. But it's good exercise. And while in this case I don't think the writers needed the exercise, demonstrating that you can make a VN out of existing resources might encourage timid newbies to step up and play.

I suspect some people are a little oversensitively nervous.

[PyTom]

I'll note that I thought pXt was actually a quite clever game, especially the MST1596 part. And so while it might have been made to tweak the nose of the forum a bit, I'm glad it was made at all.

[sake-bento]

Is it a bad thing to say that I think the execution was a good idea? Is it bad that I thought it was clever and I wanted to say so? I do offer criticism when requested, but if someone's clearly doing it merely for amusement (as seemed to be the case with this one), then why would I say such things like "You really should have used male sprites," or "Why didn't you write your own story?"

I don't know, maybe I'm just missing the argument (if there even is one).